Netanyahu comes to Washington for more handouts

[marcus]

That said the same law of expulsion would apply to extremist right wing racist Jews who incite violence against Palestinians.

Anyone who is even a bit familiar with the region would never accept the comment above. It's another example of blatant disregard for the truth and it's made only to deceive people.

Here is Israeli Knesset member, Ayelet Shaked:

A day before Palestinian teenager Muhammad Abu Khudair was kidnapped and burned alive allegedly by six Israeli Jewish youths, Israeli lawmaker Ayelet Shaked published on Facebook a call for genocide of the Palestinians.

It is a call for genocide because it declares that “the entire Palestinian people is the enemy” and justifies its destruction, “including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.”

More on the comment and the translation of the post: Link 1, Link 2 and Link 3

By the way, her punishment for calling for genocide of Palestinians? She became the Israeli Justice Minister.

[Rue]

Marcus once again you change the topic to avoid what I was discussing abode. I was discussing the rules of conduct inside

the Knesset.

You now take a 12 year old article and misrepresent it as calling for genocide.

Her words that you misrepresent are as follows:

"The Palestinian people has declared war on us, and we must respond with war. Not an operation, not a slow-moving one, not low-intensity, not controlled escalation, no destruction of terror infrastructure, no targeted killings. Enough with the oblique references. This is a war. Words have meanings. This is a war. It is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. These too are forms of avoiding reality. This is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people. Why? Ask them, they started.

I don’t know why it’s so hard for us to define reality with the simple words that language puts at our disposal. Why do we have to make up a new name for the war every other week, just to avoid calling it by its name. What’s so horrifying about understanding that the entire Palestinian people is the enemy?

Every war is between two peoples, and in every war the people who started the war, that whole people, is the enemy. A declaration of war is not a war crime. Responding with war certainly is not. Nor is the use of the word “war”, nor a clear definition who the enemy is. Au contraire: the morality of war (yes, there is such a thing) is founded on the assumption that there are wars in this world, and that war is not the normal state of things, and that in wars the enemy is usually an entire people, including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.

And the morality of war knows that it is not possible to refrain from hurting enemy civilians. It does not condemn the British air force, which bombed and totally destroyed the German city of Dresden, or the US planes that destroyed the cities of Poland and wrecked half of Budapest, places whose wretched residents had never done a thing to America, but which had to be destroyed in order to win the war against evil. The morals of war do not require that Russia be brought to trial, though it bombs and destroys towns and neighborhoods in Chechnya. It does not denounce the UN Peacekeeping Forces for killing hundreds of civilians in Angola, nor the NATO forces who bombed Milosevic’s Belgrade, a city with a million civilians, elderly, babies, women, and children. The morals of war accept as correct in principle, not only politically, what America has done in Afghanistan, including the massive bombing of populated places, including the creation of a refugee stream of hundreds of thousands of people who escaped the horrors of war, for thousands of whom there is no home to return to.

And in our war this is sevenfold more correct, because the enemy soldiers hide out among the population, and it is only through its support that they can fight. Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. Actors in the war are those who incite in mosques, who write the murderous curricula for schools, who give shelter, who provide vehicles, and all those who honor and give them their moral support. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.

There are celebrations of mourning and honor in two homes of two despicable murderers. I assume they have put up outdoor mourning structures, and all the dignitaries of the city come to honor the mother and father who raised the devil. Those two houses should be bombed from the air, with intention to destroy and to kill. And it should be announced that we will do this from now on to every home of every martyr.

There is nothing more just, and probably nothing more efficient. Every suicide attacker should know that he takes with him also his parents and his house and some of the neighbors. Every brave Um-Jihad who sends her son to hell should know she’s going with him, along with the house and everything inside it.”

Prevention cannot be focused. That’s how it is in wars. Whatever’s focused cannot prevent. It is not we who started this dastardly war and it is not we who can stop it. The keys to the ceasefire are in the hands of the members of the Palestinian nation. We can only singe their fingers until they wish to use them."

Nothing in the above calls for genocide. Not one word.

You in fact are inferring because she says there is a war between two people (Israelis and Palestinians) this means genocide.

The principle she has stated is that those who aid and abet terrorists are just as morally culpable as the terrorists themselves.

Your attempt to twist the meaning of this article would necessarily defend terrorists and aiders and abettors of terrorists as genocide victims.

Your attempt to change the subject I addressed also speaks for itself. Unable to counter what I said and admit all democracies have laws governing Parliamentary language, you now suggest what that people who aid and abet terrorists are genocide victims?

What nonsense.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Rue

[Rue]

The article Marcus tried to misrepresent as condoning genocidesuggests those who aid and abet terrorism are not innocent and should expect the same consequences as the terrorists they aid.

However in the world of Marcus, I guess when you engage in terrorism against Israelis and/or you aid and abet terrorism, if you are killed, its an act of genocide which necessarily means by law the terrorists were not terrorists simply innocent victims with no moral culpability.

There you have it. Hamas, Hezbollah, those Palestinians or Muslims who engage in terrorism against Israelis are not terrorists they are genocide victims to be put at the same moral level as say Armenians or holocaust survivors.

Such rhetoric not only insults innocent Palestinians who refuse to engage in terrorism and get killed because of terrorists using them as shields and targets, but Israeli citizens targeted for death simply because they are Jews who choose to express their Jewish identity through statehood.
That’s what these threads are reduced to, a platform to exploit Palestinian and Israeli suffering equally to condone and protect and portray terrorism as something admirable to be protected.

What bilge. How bereft of any common sense.

It also stated another denial which I want to address.. Marcus claimed Israel does not do anything about Israeli terrorists and extremists.

I would argue he is well aware how terrorism is state sanctionednot in Israel but in Gaza andHamas has two wings, one terrorist, one supposedly political. Likewise the Palestinian Authority has two wings, one political and just like Hamas filled up with jolly fat men in suits living off of taxes they charge Palestinians, while their Fatah wing sits with its weapons waiting to engage in terror not just against Israel but its own people.

I would suggest In the world of Marcus, Hamas and the PA don’t use their terrorist wings to keep their own people under control and cowering. Oh no, they are genocide victims. Its only Israelis who are terrorists. Not Hamas, not Hezbollah not the countless Muslim terror cells financed by Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Iran and condoned by all 3 to conduct terror and war against fellow Muslims in Africa, Asia and the Middle East…no…in the world of Marcus we only have Israeli terrorists.

That drivel aside, and Marcus I would argue is well aware, Israel arrest Israeli extremists. Marcus I state now for all to read, when you respond to me and say anyone who has been to Israel would know...you stop right there because you have never been to Israel, the West Bank, Jordan or Gaza. You have never witnessed terrorism first hand by Muslim terrorists or know nothing of Israeli laws because if you did know you would know such terrorists treat Musllims as bad as they do Jews and they deliberately kill their own people if they disagree with them or are deemed expendable for political purposes of advancing their cause and that is precisely why mothers of children they come for at night fight them.

You would also know Israeli Jews are arrested no differently for terrorism and political violence than Muslims.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2155140/israel-arrests-high-profile-jewish-extremists-in-west-bank-crackdown/
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/182558
http://www.voanews.com/content/israel-arrests-two-more-jewish-extremists/2902018.html
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2016/02/24/Israel-extends-Jewish-extremist-s-detention-without-trial.html

The Defence and Environment Ministers of Israel in the past have quit over their concern over Jewish
extremism in Israel.

Israel has extremists that are Jewish. They threaten the future of Israel as much as any Muslim terrorist does for the exact same reasons. You would know that if you lived there.

The difference between me and you Marcus is that I don’t sit around as you do stereotyping us, as condoning terrorism as long as its Jewish terrorists as you do Palestinians or Muslims. Israeli terrorists are no more victims of Arab genocide than Palestinian-Muslim terrorists are victims of Israeli genocide.

Terrorists are just that. They have no excuse. None,.. They are violent idiots and I am telling you, the IDF will shoot dead any Israeli terrorist no diferent than a Palestinian or Muslim one if it means saving an innocent life. I know. I know the people who wear the uniform. I know what it is to be spit and who does the spitting. Spitting and life threats come from extremists on both sides.

You know nothing of what the IDF is faced with and who they are keeping apart on the West Bank. Not a clue.

[jacee]

Rue I don't have time to respond to your full post right now, but I have a question:

Do you think Israeli Jews will be expelled or just Israeli Arabs?

.

Are you going to answer my question rue?

[Rue]

Are you going to answer my question rue?

https://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=770237

I am trying to discuss it and answer it.

The Knesset did on July 19, voted to pass an amendment to the Basic Law on the Knesset which allows, for the first time ever, the expulsion of a sitting Member of Knesset (MK) by a vote of 90 out of 120 members of that body. on the grounds that they have incited to racism or voiced support for violence against Israel.

Nothing in that law says it only will be applied or can be applied to non Jewish Israelis.

The law says A debate over expulsion has to be initiated by a minimum total of 70 MKs, including 10 from the opposition.

Then a majority of 90 MKs is required to vote to expel an MK.

Existing Israeli law prior to the above already stated that inciting to racism and supporting violence are criminal offences that are not protected by parliamentary immunity.

Those are no different than the laws for Canada, Britain, the U.S. France, Holland for example.

What in fact this amendment does is to give the Knesset the power to remove a Member of Knesset without first having to get a conviction in the court.

In otherwords Israel is only doing what the laws in Canada, the US, Britain, already do. Interestingly when Israel does it, its good for a piss on Israel thread as if its something new.

Existing Israeli law before this amendment already stipulates grounds for disqualifying an electoral list or candidate from running for the Knesset and. also already allowed for Knesset members to be temporarily banned or taking part in committee work and/or from speaking on the floor of the Knesset. What was not prevented and this amendment tries to address is the fact that a Knesset member inciting racism and/or violence still had the right to vote on legislation.

Now it is true the legislation wasproposed in direct response to Knesset members from the Joint List who decided to meet in early 2016 with families of Palestinians who carried out terror actions in Jerusalem.

These members were expelled not because they are Muslim ro Arab but because they met with the terrorist families and express sympathy for the terrorists. It was the expression of sympathy for terrorism not the religion of the Knesset members that got them expelled.

Any member of any Parliament who expresses sympathy for and condones terrorism in my opinion is violating and abusing the fuindamental principles of freedom of speech. Me personally I think anyone who openly uses their elected seat in a house of representatives to condone terrorism has no place in that assembly and I do not care what nationality or religion they are.

Using the Arab card or the race card to try say these members should not be expelled is b.s. Their being non Jewish is not the issue. Their condoning terrorism is.

For me it is a crock of sheeyit to say if you don't allow elected members of democratic governments to stand up and condone terrorism its a strike against freedom of speech or democracy or because the terrorists are Palestinian, if you criticize their terrorist views it makes you a racist against Palestinians.

The arguement to make condoning terrorism a fundamental freedom of speech right or automatically saying terrorist supporters who do so in the name of Palestinians can't be called terrorists and if you do it makes you hate Palestinians is a crock.

No censoring people who support terrorism does not erode Israeli law or any country's law it prevents freedom of speech from being abused by those who don't believe in freedom of speech and use it to destroy it.

Enough is enough. You want to abuse freedom of speech and try argue inciting terrorism is a fundamental free speech right I call you out as full of it.

Now you ask me do I think the law will only be used to expel Arab Knesset members.

You ask me that because you think it will be.

You already believe Israel is racist and only acts against extremism and terrorism when the person is a Palestinian or Arab.

I have lived there. I have been part of the process that has seen extremists of every damn religion and political view be

challenged by the Israeli government and its enforcement agencies for the SAME reasons.

It doesn't matter which religion or political cause the person has-it doesn't matter if they are Palestinian, Israeli, Jewish, Muslim whatever,

if they condone terrorism and incite it they belong in jail or a bullet between their eyes if they try engage in it.

I am not sure how more clear to answer the question but no I can not answer hypotheticals.

Do I think there are pro Israel extremists in the Knesset, yes. Do I think they are a majority capable of expelling people simply for being Muslim or Arab, no because if that were true it would have already happened.

Do I think Lieberman stood up in the past in the Knesset and said racist statements about Arab Israelis-absolutely and he was condemned for his ignorant statements.

If a pro Israel politician in fact encourages terrorism against Palestinians or any Israeli of any status, Israeli law defines them as a criminal.

Its why members of the Kache Party were placed in jail.

Yes there are some very violent extremist settlers on the West Bank. From one of their cells they killed Yitzhak Rabin the politician I supported as

a young man in Israel and supported in later life during his peace intiiatives. Your point? Are you saying Israel did not arrest his murderer? Are you saying Netanyahu condones what that sob did in killing Rabin?

This thread is a pretext to single out Israel and piss on it for having the very same laws Canada has. Its a pathetic attempt to say outlawing incitement of words that encourage hatred are something only Israel does when all democratic countries pass such laws to protect the essence of freedom of speech.

You stand up in Canada and call for terrorism to free Canada from non aboriginals, see what will happen. This crock that because Israel has passed the law its undemocratic is a crock. Terrorist supporters in Israel and on the West Bank in Gaza don't get to hide behind the Palestinian identity card to justify their terrorism. No terrorists and supporters of terrorists are not genocide victims when they get shot dead nor are they victims of

discrimination when arrested-they are terrorists and they belong dead or in jail-that choice is their own. They made that choice when they made the decision to say they do not believe in freedom of speech and believe violence and crime is the way to impose their beliefs on others, not discuss them and seek peaceful mutual compromise.

Point a gun at me, that's not freedom of expression. That's an act of either war or terror, either way I won't stand their and let you shoot me dead with this crock of a sheeyit argument that pointing your gun at me to kill me is freedom of speech I can't do anything about.

Like hell it is.

[jacee]

Rue:

These members were expelled not because they are Muslim ro Arab but because they met with the terrorist families and express sympathy for the terrorists. It was the expression of sympathy for terrorism not the religion of the Knesset members that got them expelled.

They didn't visit the families in the Knesset, so how is this relevant to the new law? Edited July 30, 2016 by jacee