Emigration policy?

[Machjo]

Given that Canada's emigration rate has increased somewhat over the years and that I would guess that international marriages play a role in this, it might be time to consider making it much easier to obtain permanent resident status (maybe in exchange for making it much more difficult to obtain citizenship?). Essentially along the lines of you can live here, work here, study here, and pay taxes here but can't vote or benefit from government services here. You do it all on your dime.

This would make it easier for Canadians to live with their spouse in Canada until the Canadian's parents get used to the marriage before the Canadian emigrates, essentially to make the married adult child's emigration process emotionally easier on his parents. That way, he can start off living in Canada with his spouse and invite his parents to visit his spouse's home town a few times so as to alleviate any fears they might have before he finally emigrates.

Essentially it would serve as part of Canada's emigration policy out of consideration for the parents of Canadians with foreign spouses.

Additionally, given that some Canadian military and retired military personnel might not be allowed to visit their child's spouse's home country (P.R. China for example) within twenty years after the end of their security clearance, that a temporary citizenship process could exist whereby the spouse could benefit from all of the rights of citizenship until the date that the travel restriction on her father-in-law expires, or alternatively that the travel restrictions on her father-in-law are immediately revoked in consideration for the fact that he would then have a valid reason to travel to that country that would outweigh any national security concern.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Deleted.

Edited September 12, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[cybercoma]

Essentially along the lines of you can live here, work here, study here, and pay taxes here but can't vote or benefit from government services here. You do it all on your dime.

All the responsibilities with none of the benefits. Wow. What a great deal!

[Machjo]

I have general comments about immigration policies in Canada.

1 - For a nation of only 32 million, 250,000 new immigrants per year is too high in my view. I would cut it in half to give time for the newcomers to be absorbed and adopted and our education, health and social system be able to handle them.

2 - Significantly more selective based on assets, skills (those Canadians lacking), education (those needed or in demand) and ADOPTABILITY. Screen out those from middle east, Africa, American continent, Asia, Europe and Australia who lack the compassionate and Kind and generous Canadian culture.

3 - Screen out carefully to keep out criminals and those lacking respect for women and those who do not believe in individual freedoms and democracy and equal right for individuals regardless of race, religion, national origin, skin color, gender and sexual orientation.

Hmmm... er... how would an emigration policy increase Canada's population in the long-term?

To make it easier for someone to stay but not obtain citizenship and so pay taxes but not benefit from those taxes would be an insentive for the couple to leave as soon as possible, especially before their child starts school which the parents would then have to pay out of pocket.

Additionally, to abrogate any security travel restriction on the Canadian military or ex-military father-in-law of a foreign national would accelerate his habituation to the idea of his Canadian married adult child's emigration from Canada with his spouse and so further increasing the likelihood that they would emigrate sooner rather than later) possibly even with his parents eventually accompanying him in their old age.

Given too that a Candia who marries a foreign national (especially one who might not know Canada's official language) is more likely to know an unofficial language, making it easier for him to emigrate would help to strengthen the dominance of English and French in Canada by reducing the unifficial-language demographic.

I just don't see how an emigration policy would increase Canada's population in the long term.

[Machjo]

All the responsibilities with none of the benefits. Wow. What a great deal!

Given how xenophobic Canada has become over the years (as reflected in its immigration policies), one would think it could at least have the courtesy to develop a kinder emigration policy so as to make it easier for Canadians who marry a foreign national who has no interest in settling in Canada but who wants to stay in Canada initially only for the sake of her parents-in-law to give them a chance to adapt enotionally could do so more easily without anyone complaining about how expensive she is.

Revising the CBSA and IRB to ensure that they have better oversight and respect the principles of fundamental justice, the presumption of innocence, due process, and protection from arbitrary detention would be a nice touch too, far more valuable and fundamental than citizenship.

While the left is busy wanting to make it easier to immigrate to Canada, many Canadians are too cheap to adequately fund the CBSA for evidence gathering, statement corroboration,and offering counsel, and to fund the IRB adequately enough to provide foreign nationals with a fair trial before an independent tribunal!

Yes I support easier immigration laws in principle, but my personal experiences in dealing with the Canadian immigration system and my awareness of how xenophobic Canada has become over the years has led me to believe that it might be time to prioritize fundamental justice over citizenship and at least making the emigration process easier for Canadians who decide to go that route.

No Canadian in this situation will appreciate playing politics in the hopes of utopia when he will want a more immediate solution within the context if the political reality today.

I'm presently dealing with the CBSA and it's not exactly reputed for due process if you know what I mean.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Deleted.

Edited September 12, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[cybercoma]

I just think we should be making it easier for people to be full citizens with all of the rights and responsibilities that citizenship carries with it, not making it harder. There's something mildly unethical about inviting people over here, using them for their knowledge and experience, taking money from them to provide services, but refuse them the opportunity to tap into those services or have any say in how those services are managed.

[Machjo]

I don't see immigration policy as a mean to increase Canada's population but instead may be government can offer incentives so that Canadians have more children like tax breaks per child? I see immigration as a mean to better our society and country with people with skills we lack, and money we may need for investment and also as a mean to better our society with kind tolerant people and big hearts.

Immigration and emigration are not the same thing.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Oh you are correct. My eyes fooled me and I misread the thread title and mixed it up with an existing thread entitled "Immigration".!!!!. My apology.

Edited September 12, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Machjo]

I just think we should be making it easier for people to be full citizens with all of the rights and responsibilities that citizenship carries with it, not making it harder. There's something mildly unethical about inviting people over here, using them for their knowledge and experience, taking money from them to provide services, but refuse them the opportunity to tap into those services or have any say in how those services are managed.

We were planning on emigrating next year but because my mother has difficulty accepting it emotionalky, we're thinking of living in Canada for a few years and have my parents visit my partner's home town a few times to reassure her before we eventually move. The other option would be sudden emigration on my part which would pain my mother and maybe my father too.

Additionally, a CBSA officer had recently made a false accusation against my partner that had had led to her arbitrary detention for extradition and that we are now fighting through not a regular court system that would have protected the presumption of her innocence but the IRB that works on a balance of probavilities. Since the accusing officer is free to not have to defend his statements at the hearing, it essentially becomes a case of the presumption of gyilt.

Lucky for us, the officers' statements having more holes than Swiss cheese will essentially guarantee that we win the case. We'be already had one hearing and even the interoreter had confided that she thought the CBSA lawyer ro be completely disorganized in her thoughts. Had I not found her a lawyer she would have been extradited on mere suspicion!

Unfortunately winning the case is only half of it. The process itself is a punishment considering the time, money, and emotions we've invested in this all because maybe a CBSA agent had an argument with hhis wife the previous evening?

[Machjo]

With this kind of experience, do you really think we care about citizenship. Just improving the fundamental right to due process would bring Canada leap years ahead of where it now stands.

[Machjo]

Come to think of it, given how anti-immigrant Canada has become, I'm surprised that Canada hasn't developed a more thorough emigration policy to make it easier for Canadians who marry a foreign nation to transition gradually to the idea of emigration. For example, abrogating security travel restrictions on Canadian military or ex-military personal with a foreign child-in-law would be one example of the kind of laws that such a policy might cover.

If we're going to make it difficult for foreign nationals to obtain Canadian citizenship, then ket's at least make it easier for Canadians to emigrate.

[Canada_First]

Only people with wealth should be allowed in Canada. We don't need any more poor uneducated people. We're full on those. We have enough coffee pourers and big Mac makers.

[Machjo]

Only people with wealth should be allowed in Canada. We don't need any more poor uneducated people. We're full on those. We have enough coffee pourers and big Mac makers.

Now only if Canadians learnt the word 'emigration.'

[drummindiver]

Given how xenophobic Canada has become over the years (as reflected in its immigration policies), one would think it could at least have the courtesy to develop a kinder emigration policy so as to make it easier for Canadians who marry a foreign national who has no interest in settling in Canada but who wants to stay in Canada initially only for the sake of her parents-in-law to give them a chance to adapt enotionally could do so more easily without anyone complaining about how expensive she is.

Revising the CBSA and IRB to ensure that they have better oversight and respect the principles of fundamental justice, the presumption of innocence, due process, and protection from arbitrary detention would be a nice touch too, far more valuable and fundamental than citizenship.

While the left is busy wanting to make it easier to immigrate to Canada, many Canadians are too cheap to adequately fund the CBSA for evidence gathering, statement corroboration,and offering counsel, and to fund the IRB adequately enough to provide foreign nationals with a fair trial before an independent tribunal!

Yes I support easier immigration laws in principle, but my personal experiences in dealing with the Canadian immigration system and my awareness of how xenophobic Canada has become over the years has led me to believe that it might be time to prioritize fundamental justice over citizenship and at least making the emigration process easier for Canadians who decide to go that route.

No Canadian in this situation will appreciate playing politics in the hopes of utopia when he will want a more immediate solution within the context if the political reality today.

I'm presently dealing with the CBSA and it's not exactly reputed for due process if you know what I mean.

First. it's pretty insulting to say Canada is xenophobic considering the immigration policies and the number of ppl who utilize them.

Second, what you are asking for is that Canada allow ppl from x country to move here, marry a Canadian, then together move to y country. During the time here, these ppl should be able to access all our medical and social blankets, though they haven't paid into them and don't plan on doing so in the future?

Add tol this, you think it punishment to have to suffer the process of Canadian law if you or your spouse is accused of something?

You are also worried that Canada makes it hard for foreign nationals to get Canadian citizenship and then emigrate?

Why would someone even do that? To have Canadian citizenship to come back for health care, cpp, welfare?

.

[Machjo]

First. it's pretty insulting to say Canada is xenophobic considering the immigration policies and the number of ppl who utilize them.

Second, what you are asking for is that Canada allow ppl from x country to move here, marry a Canadian, then together move to y country. During the time here, these ppl should be able to access all our medical and social blankets, though they haven't paid into them and don't plan on doing so in the future?

Add tol this, you think it punishment to have to suffer the process of Canadian law if you or your spouse is accused of something?

You are also worried that Canada makes it hard for foreign nationals to get Canadian citizenship and then emigrate?

Why would someone even do that? To have Canadian citizenship to come back for health care, cpp, welfare?

.

I'm lost. Where did I day they should get free health care? I'd explicitly specified just the right to be here and work here and pay their taxes. If even allowing them to work here is too much, then yes, Canada is xenophobic.

Where did I say that they should be exempted from Canadian law? Yes, if a foreign national commits an offence, maybe he should be deported. What I was saying was to protect his right to the presumption of innocence and due process so that a CBSA agent who had an argument with his wife the night before can't just write whatever the hell he wants. In other words, make sure the person is guilty in a fair trial before extradition him. If due process is too generous a right in Canadians' opinion, then yes, Canada has become worryingly xenophobic.

As for foreign nationals gaining citizenship, that's a luxory: just the right to due process would be nice, thanks.

As for emigration, I was referring not to foreign nationals but Canadian nationals.

Again, why would we want citizenship when we don't even have due process?

[drummindiver]

I'm lost. Where did I day they should get free health care? I'd explicitly specified just the right to be here and work here and pay their taxes. If even allowing them to work here is too much, then yes, Canada is xenophobic.

Where did I say that they should be exempted from Canadian law? Yes, if a foreign national commits an offence, maybe he should be deported. What I was saying was to protect his right to the presumption of innocence and due process so that a CBSA agent who had an argument with his wife the night before can't just write whatever the hell he wants. In other words, make sure the person is guilty in a fair trial before extradition him. If due process is too generous a right in Canadians' opinion, then yes, Canada has become worryingly xenophobic.

As for foreign nationals gaining citizenship, that's a luxory: just the right to due process would be nice, thanks.

As for emigration, I was referring not to foreign nationals but Canadian nationals.

Again, why would we want citizenship when we don't even have due process?

So, if they became sick they would they go to the country of origin? If they had an accident, they would be taken by you to the country of origin? If they were here and needed chemo, what? And you don't see any possibility of fraud or people abusing the system?

Due process is a punishment according to you.

"The process itself is a punishment considering the time, money, and emotions we've invested in this all because maybe a CBSA agent had an argument with hhis wife the previous evening?"

Sorry. You want citizenship, you don't want it?

"If we're going to make it difficult for foreign nationals to obtain Canadian citizenship, then ket's at least make it easier for Canadians to emigrate."

Edited September 12, 2015 by drummindiver

[Canada_First]

Now only if Canadians learnt the word 'emigration.'

I emigrated here from Africa. I am a white African who made my wealth during Apartheid in South Africa. I came just before the blacks took over and are now in the process of turning it into a third world country.

[On Guard for Thee]

I emigrated here from Africa. I am a white African who made my wealth during Apartheid in South Africa. I came just before the blacks took over and are now in the process of turning it into a third world country.

So it sounds like apartheid is right up your alley eh? In case you missed it, we here, boycotted SA because of the inhumanity, there. So why would you come here?

[Canada_First]

So it sounds like apartheid is right up your alley eh? In case you missed it, we here, boycotted SA because of the inhumanity, there. So why would you come here?

Many of my business associates were already here. As we're some family. Plus the banks were stable and the government only allows for a certain amount of corruption. You'd be surprised what can be obtained by giving money to the right people and how quickly.

Don't be naive. Money runs the world. Even in lily white Canada. There are powerful people here that nobody has ever heard of.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Canada_First

[-1=e^ipi]

So which country do you plan to emigrate to Machjo?

[Argus]

Given how xenophobic Canada has become over the years (as reflected in its immigration policies),

Sorry, what? We're xenophobic because we bring hundreds of thousands of foreigners here every year to live with us, almost all of them from completely different types of societies and cultures, with different languages and beliefs? How is this evidence we're xenophobic? Isn't it evidence we're NOT?

[Argus]

Come to think of it, given how anti-immigrant Canada has become,

This premise, like your last one, is preposterous and absurd, and goes against all evidence.

[ToadBrother]

Given how xenophobic Canada has become over the years (as reflected in its immigration policies), one would think it could at least have the courtesy to develop a kinder emigration policy so as to make it easier for Canadians who marry a foreign national who has no interest in settling in Canada but who wants to stay in Canada initially only for the sake of her parents-in-law to give them a chance to adapt enotionally could do so more easily without anyone complaining about how expensive she is.

How xenophic it has become? Ever heard of the Komagata Maru incident?

[Machjo]

So which country do you plan to emigrate to Machjo?

Hong Kong SAR.