Not for the NDP to win, but for the CPC to lose.

[Machjo]

This election is not for the NDP to win, but for the CPC to lose!

Most Canadians ate conservative at heart, and so a principled and competent conservative-leaning candidate would be a shoe-in in most ridings.

The problem is with the lack of principles and competence of the CPC. The Libertarian Party could fill the void on the CPC's fringes (and with that party having moderated its policies over the years, it's no longer as fringe as it used to be), but that still leaves a vacuum within the non-libertarian conservative movement.

[cybercoma]

Most Canadians ate conservative at heart

Where do you even get that idea? Even in their best election the Conservatives only got ballots from 25% of the electorate. Of those that voted, most Canadians voted for parties that weren't conservative.

[Machjo]

I've sometimes been undecided between the NDP and the CPC, or between the CPC and the Libertarian Party, or the CPC and the Green Party. I like ideas from all of their platforms. Probably more conservatives than you think vote Libertarian, Green, Liberal or NDP depending on where they stand on various matters. Heck, I even agree with the Bloc on some points.

As a strong believer in due process, presumption of innocence, protection from arbitrary detention etc., I'd say the CPC has made a complete dog mess of the CBSA and IRB! Yet due process is definitely a traditional conservative value even if every other major party surpasses the CPC by far on that field. Some Conservatives could turn libertarian for that reason, or another party.

Responsible exploitation of our natural resources is likewise a traditional conservative value which could lead some conservatives to vote Green.

The principle of fundamental justice is also a traditional conservative value. For example, how does the CPC defend spending so much money on official bilingualism while underfunding schools on reserves?!

Keeping one's word is also a traditional conservative value, yet how do we do that while running rough shod over treaties we'd signed in bad faith?

A traditional conservative does not separate the people from the Government and recognizes that a treaty signed by a democratically elected government is signed on behalf of the people across generations, the government being the constant of society from generation to generation.

In many respects, the other parties embrace many traditional conservative values that the CPC has rejected.

There is also a long-standing debate between authoritarian and Liberal conservatives going back at least to Burke's time concerning law as a reflection of morality, whereby the authoritarian streak leaned towards criminalizing all that it considered I'm moral whereas the liberal branch distinguished between the two, recognizing that to not criminalize an act did not necessarily equate with condoning it but rather with balancing the seriousness of the act against the resources that would have been needed to suppress it. This explains why prostitution itself has been legal in England going so far back in history and why at some times conservatives opposed punishing homosexual acts, again going as far back as the 1700's at least.

The fact if the matter is that no party has the monopoly on any ideology and in reality probably moat Canadians are conservative at heart.

[Topaz]

Do you think if the Conservative got rid of Harper or went back to the Progressive Conservative way of thinking, they would do better?

[Machjo]

For example, should the CPC go back to traditional conservative values, respecting human rights (presumption of innocence, protection against arbitrary detention, and due process for foreign nationals for example), eliminating the double standard in

funding official bilingualism while underfunding schools on reserve, exploit our resources more responsibly (though granted that is a provincial matter too), etc., it could win those conservative votes that it had lost probably since around Mulroney's time if not earlier.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Machjo

[Machjo]

Do you think if the Conservative got rid of Harper or went back to the Progressive Conservative way of thinking, they would do better?

Hard to say.

But let's face it, the abuse of IRB's as a way to circumvent due process for foreign nationals certainly does not sit well with conservatives who v

value restraint on the power of the government to detain and punish, even foreign nationals.

I'm sure they see the hypocrisy in generous funding for official bilingualism and then saying they have no money for schools on reserves. It should make up its mind either way.

Traditional conservatives accept that the government represents the people and honours its treaties and obligations through the generations, etc.

[CITIZEN_2015]

How about the Libs?

Edited September 23, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[waldo]

For example, should the CPC go back to traditional conservative values, respecting human rights (presumption of innocence, protection against arbitrary detention, and due process for foreign nationals for example), eliminating the double standard in funding official bilingualism while underfunding schools on reserve, exploit our resources more responsibly (though granted that is a provincial matter too), etc., it could win those conservative votes that it had lost probably since around Mulroney's time if not earlier.

traditional conservative values? It would seem today's Conservative supporters have either forget about the Progressive side of the former PC party that Harper buried... or they simply gravitate to the word "Conservative" like sheeple (notwithstanding there's certainly nothing conservative in the fiscal management of Harper Conservatives). Most Canadians are small 'l' liberals in ideology.

Harper had his chance to bury the Liberal Party he so loathes... to become that "natural governing party" designation he so cherished. And all he had to do was hold true to his claims of wanting to introduce openness, transparency and accountability. Simple really!