Bryan Posted August 21, 2015 Report Posted August 21, 2015 Then there is absolutely no point in offering sex specific scholarships if someone with any gender can qualify by lying. But it's not lying if you're allowed to just decide. "Are you a woman?" "I am today" Quote
Bonam Posted August 21, 2015 Report Posted August 21, 2015 I've never had to submit ID to prove my gender to anyone for any scholarships, grants, bursaries, insurance, job applications, or anything else. Having lived in both BC and WA, I've almost always had to submit a copy of ID when applying for almost anything "official" from any government agency or private institution. Now, there was no stipulation that the ID was submitted specifically to prove gender, it was just one of the documents on the list of what was required in each case. Presumably, the point is to confirm your identity. Quote
cybercoma Posted August 21, 2015 Report Posted August 21, 2015 I love how you guys just make up this bull about people just flip flopping their genders from one day to the next. First of all, very few people are transgender. Secondly, transgender people are very certain about what they are. Finally, most people don't just lie about their sex for shits and giggles. Quote
cybercoma Posted August 21, 2015 Report Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) Having lived in both BC and WA, I've almost always had to submit a copy of ID when applying for almost anything "official" from any government agency or private institution. Now, there was no stipulation that the ID was submitted specifically to prove gender, it was just one of the documents on the list of what was required in each case. Presumably, the point is to confirm your identity. Photo ID would confirm your identity. Sex is redundant. Edited August 21, 2015 by cybercoma Quote
-1=e^ipi Posted August 21, 2015 Author Report Posted August 21, 2015 Speaking of scholarships, women make up 60% of university students and have a higher graduation rate... But I guess we need all these female only scholarships because women are 'oppressed' or something. Quote
-1=e^ipi Posted August 21, 2015 Author Report Posted August 21, 2015 Secondly, transgender people are very certain about what they are. You are so wrong here (unless you have a very narrow definition of transgender). I suggest you go to a website such as asexuality.org and read threads where trans people discuss their identities. But please tell me more about how you know so much about trans people. Quote
cybercoma Posted August 21, 2015 Report Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) Speaking of scholarships, women make up 60% of university students and have a higher graduation rate... But I guess we need all these female only scholarships because women are 'oppressed' or something. There are male-only scholarships in disciplines where they're under-represented, such as the humanities. Edited August 21, 2015 by cybercoma Quote
TimG Posted August 21, 2015 Report Posted August 21, 2015 I've never had to submit ID to prove my gender to anyone for any scholarships, grants, bursaries, insurance, job applications, or anything else.A fact that in the past people would never expect to get away with a lie on something like gender. That would change if the government adopts a 'whatever you want today' criteria for gender identification. If people are willing lie about race to get a scholarship it follows that would lie about gender if they believed they could get away with it: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/08/19/did-black-lives-matter-organiser-shaun-king-mislead-oprah-winfrey-by-pretending-to-be-biracial/ Quote
Bryan Posted August 21, 2015 Report Posted August 21, 2015 Secondly, transgender people are very certain about what they are. Right. That's why so many of them are in therapy. And why the suicide rates are so high. Cock-sure, all of them. Quote
-1=e^ipi Posted August 21, 2015 Author Report Posted August 21, 2015 There are male-only scholarships in disciplines where they're under-represented, such as the humanities. Men are under-represented basically everywhere. The ratio of female only to male only scholarships doesn't reflect this. Society is sexist. It ignores discrimination against men while blindly continuing with the 'women are oppressed' narrative. Quote
-1=e^ipi Posted August 21, 2015 Author Report Posted August 21, 2015 http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/08/19/did-black-lives-matter-organiser-shaun-king-mislead-oprah-winfrey-by-pretending-to-be-biracial/ Milo Yiannopolous is a good journalist. Luckily he wasn't killed after receiving 10 bomb threats in Miami last weekend. Quote
Black Dog Posted August 21, 2015 Report Posted August 21, 2015 Milo Yiannopolous is a good journalist. Luckily he wasn't killed after receiving 10 bomb threats in Miami last weekend. And yet. Quote
BC_chick Posted August 24, 2015 Report Posted August 24, 2015 I love how you guys just make up this bull about people just flip flopping their genders from one day to the next. First of all, very few people are transgender. Secondly, transgender people are very certain about what they are. Finally, most people don't just lie about their sex for shits and giggles. So you really don't think there are a tonne of college-aged boys who'd go all Mrs. Doubtfire for a scholarship? Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
TimG Posted August 24, 2015 Report Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) I love how you guys just make up this bull about people just flip flopping their genders from one day to the next.There are people who describe their gender as intersex/neither/two spirit. The definitions of these terms DO imply they can take on male or female roles depending on the day. If you create an environment where there are economic incentives to claim a flexible gender identity without requiring objectively verifiable evidence then people will claim to switch their gender in order to access those benefits. Edited August 24, 2015 by TimG Quote
TimG Posted August 24, 2015 Report Posted August 24, 2015 How many, Tim?Depends on the amount of economic benefits to gain. The greater the benefit the greater number of 'intersex/two-spirited' transgender will appear. In the end, it will become impossible offer gender based programs without deliberately discriminating against transgender that do not have objective evidence to support the claimed gender. Quote
BC_chick Posted August 24, 2015 Report Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) Depends on the amount of economic benefits to gain. The greater the benefit the greater number of 'intersex/two-spirited' transgender will appear. In the end, it will become impossible offer gender based programs without deliberately discriminating against transgender that do not have objective evidence to support the claimed gender. If they are truly intersexed, what's the problem? If they're not, you're really reaching if you think cisgender men are going to live in drag for a scholarship. The subject has spawned sitcoms and comedy feature films but it's never been a real issue. Edited August 24, 2015 by BC_chick Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
TimG Posted August 24, 2015 Report Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) If they are truly intersexed, what's the problem?Who decides if someone is "truly intersex"? What criteria do they use? If they're not, you're really reaching if you think cisgendered men are going to live in drag for a scholarship.Why would they have to live in drag? All they need to do is say they are female and wear whatever they want. Based on the standards being laid out by the transgender activists anyone who questions whether they are "really" transgender would be denounced for insensitivity/discrimination. But if this happens you know that those same activists would be twisting themselves into knots trying to come up with some arbitrary criteria to determine whether someone is really 'intersex' which would prove my original point: if gender matters to any government or institution then gender must be based on objectively verifiable evidence. The idea that people can just decide their gender is nonsense. Edited August 24, 2015 by TimG Quote
Bonam Posted August 24, 2015 Report Posted August 24, 2015 If they are truly intersexed, what's the problem? If they're not, you're really reaching if you think cisgender men are going to live in drag for a scholarship. Are they required to "live in drag" in order to be allowed to be considered intersexed? Will someone challenge them based on what gender box they tick if they don't appear to follow a stereotype of the kind of lifestyle they are supposed to live? If any substantial money or opportunity is at stake, and there is no clear and enforceable method of verification, you can be sure people will lie. The reason it's "never been a real issue" is because people's gender is implicitly verified when they submit a copy of their ID which includes their name, photo, and sex, all of which are presumed official as the ID is issued by the government. Would you refuse, say, $50k, if all you had to do was fill out a form and say that you are "male", knowing no one would ever or could ever check? Even if you would, consider how many people wouldn't. Quote
-1=e^ipi Posted August 24, 2015 Author Report Posted August 24, 2015 So you really don't think there are a tonne of college-aged boys who'd go all Mrs. Doubtfire for a scholarship? I would. Since I was born in Alberta, I'll have to wait to see what kind of changes the current government makes with respect to changing your birth certificate. In the end, it will become impossible offer gender based programs without deliberately discriminating against transgender that do not have objective evidence to support the claimed gender. Exactly. The sooner we support the large diversity of gender identities, the sooner all this sexist nonsense comes to an end and we start treating people equally. Who decides if someone is "truly intersex"? Intersex isn't a gender identity. You are confusing gender identity with sex. Quote
TimG Posted August 24, 2015 Report Posted August 24, 2015 Intersex isn't a gender identity. You are confusing gender identity with sex.Then use 'two-spirit' or 'neither'. The point is there are people who choose to identify with both biological sexes. Quote
BC_chick Posted August 24, 2015 Report Posted August 24, 2015 Are they required to "live in drag" in order to be allowed to be considered intersexed? Will someone challenge them based on what gender box they tick if they don't appear to follow a stereotype of the kind of lifestyle they are supposed to live? If any substantial money or opportunity is at stake, and there is no clear and enforceable method of verification, you can be sure people will lie. The reason it's "never been a real issue" is because people's gender is implicitly verified when they submit a copy of their ID which includes their name, photo, and sex, all of which are presumed official as the ID is issued by the government. Would you refuse, say, $50k, if all you had to do was fill out a form and say that you are "male", knowing no one would ever or could ever check? Even if you would, consider how many people wouldn't. "Living in drag" was me being sarcastic. As in, I highly doubt there is going to be a lot of boys who are willing to turn their lives upside down pretending to be transgender (hence, living in drag) just so they can get a scholarship. There are steps you have to take before legally changing your gender. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Bonam Posted August 24, 2015 Report Posted August 24, 2015 There are steps you have to take before legally changing your gender. Yes, now. Note the topics being discussed in this thread are changes in how things are now. Quote
TimG Posted August 24, 2015 Report Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) "Living in drag" was me being sarcastic. As in, I highly doubt there is going to be a lot of boys who are willing to turn their lives upside down pretending to be transgender (hence, living in drag) just so they can get a scholarship.What exactly is required to live as a self declared transgender? Seems to me they could just carry on as they always did and simply insist they are woman when asked. Do you have a book of rules for living as a transgender? I thought this was all about throwing out the rulebooks. Having second thoughts? Edited August 24, 2015 by TimG Quote
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