square Posted December 30, 2015 Report Posted December 30, 2015 Personally this is a topic I'm going to keep a close eye on. This government will probably allow for doctor assisted dying with some safeguards added in the legislation. Quote
Topaz Posted January 3, 2016 Report Posted January 3, 2016 This decision should be made when a person is young and healthy and doesn't feel any pressure and anyone with a Will , usually does a Living Will at the same time, so why can't a person do it then? The only group of people that would have problems with this are the ones born or has to depend on someone for their life needs. Quote
square Posted January 11, 2016 Report Posted January 11, 2016 The SCoC will be hearing arguments as to weather or not to give parliament a 6 month extension to draft new legislation. Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted January 20, 2016 Report Posted January 20, 2016 I certainly would not like to see this for minors. Vulnerable populations like the physically and mentally challenged and the psychiatrically ill also need to be protected against subtle coercion. Quote
Big Guy Posted January 20, 2016 Report Posted January 20, 2016 I certainly would not like to see this for minors. Vulnerable populations like the physically and mentally challenged and the psychiatrically ill also need to be protected against subtle coercion. Why do you believe that there would be "subtle coercion"? By whom and why? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
SpankyMcFarland Posted March 6, 2016 Report Posted March 6, 2016 Why do you believe that there would be "subtle coercion"? By whom and why? People may feel they are a burden. Quote
TimG Posted March 7, 2016 Report Posted March 7, 2016 People may feel they are a burden.There is an intractable ethical dilemma when it comes to caring for people who have no prospect for recovery and can no longer function themselves. In real world a significant portion of burden and cost of caring for these people often falls on the near relatives and it makes sense for people with any empathy to realize that the greatest kindness they could offer their relatives is to die sooner than later. Are these people coerced because they see their loved ones struggling with the stress of their care or are they making a choice that they believe is best for themselves? It is impossible to distinguish between the two. Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted March 7, 2016 Report Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) There is an intractable ethical dilemma when it comes to caring for people who have no prospect for recovery and can no longer function themselves. In real world a significant portion of burden and cost of caring for these people often falls on the near relatives and it makes sense for people with any empathy to realize that the greatest kindness they could offer their relatives is to die sooner than later. Are these people coerced because they see their loved ones struggling with the stress of their care or are they making a choice that they believe is best for themselves? It is impossible to distinguish between the two. The safest thing is not to put them in that spot where they may feel obliged to top themselves. We are not hunter/gatherers who need to leave the weak behind. Some Christan ideas are actually good. Life may not be seen as sacred anymore but it's still very special. Edited March 7, 2016 by SpankyMcFarland Quote
Guest Posted March 7, 2016 Report Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) The safest thing is not to put them in that spot where they may feel obliged to top themselves. We are not hunter/gatherers who need to leave the weak behind. Some Christan ideas are actually good. Life may not be seen as sacred anymore but it's still very special. Yours is. I assume, from your posts, anyway. You have no idea how special mine is. I'll make you a deal. I won't kill you if you don't want me to, and you don't force me to live if I don't want you to. Seems reasonable to me. We both get what we want. Edited March 7, 2016 by bcsapper Quote
dre Posted March 7, 2016 Report Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) Never mind. Edited March 7, 2016 by dre Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
TimG Posted March 7, 2016 Report Posted March 7, 2016 The safest thing is not to put them in that spot where they may feel obliged to top themselves.So you are in favour of torturing people simply because of it makes you unconfortable to give someone the choice to end the torture? I am quite confused why you think torture is a more ethical approach. Life may not be seen as sacred anymore but it's still very special.That's your opinion. Whether a particular life is sacred should be up to the individual. Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted March 7, 2016 Report Posted March 7, 2016 Yours is. I assume, from your posts, anyway. You have no idea how special mine is. I'll make you a deal. I won't kill you if you don't want me to, and you don't force me to live if I don't want you to. Seems reasonable to me. We both get what we want. These things are not black and white. I have no desire to interfere in your life. I also have no objection to assisted suicide, freely chosen, and would be more than happy to go that way myself. I merely want to protect the vulnerable e.g. the young, the mentally ill and those with special needs. I will make you a deal. Talk to some handicapped people and their families who are concerned about this legislation. They are easy to find. Modern Utopias have usually been reductive, removing the imperfect. Let us remember that. Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted March 7, 2016 Report Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) Yours is. I assume, from your posts, anyway. You have no idea how special mine is. I'll make you a deal. I won't kill you if you don't want me to, and you don't force me to live if I don't want you to. Seems reasonable to me. We both get what we want. These things are not black and white. I have no desire to interfere in your life. I also have no objection to assisted suicide, freely chosen, and would be more than happy to go that way myself. I merely want to protect the vulnerable e.g. the young, the mentally ill and those with special needs. I will make you a deal. Talk to some handicapped people and their families who are concerned about this legislation. They are easy to find. Modern Utopias have usually been reductive, removing the imperfect. Let us remember that. Edited March 7, 2016 by SpankyMcFarland Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted March 7, 2016 Report Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) So you are in favour of torturing people simply because of it makes you unconfortable to give someone the choice to end the torture? I am quite confused why you think torture is a more ethical approach.That's your opinion. Whether a particular life is sacred should be up to the individual. Utterly false. I wish to inflict pain on nobody. Edited March 7, 2016 by SpankyMcFarland Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted March 7, 2016 Report Posted March 7, 2016 Every new policy brings problems. I support assisted suicide but we must keep our eyes open and anticipate how such legislation might be abused. I thought the other side would be fighting with me. It will be a nightmare for doctors at first. Quote
Guest Posted March 7, 2016 Report Posted March 7, 2016 These things are not black and white. I have no desire to interfere in your life. I also have no objection to assisted suicide, freely chosen, and would be more than happy to go that way myself. I merely want to protect the vulnerable e.g. the young, the mentally ill and those with special needs. I will make you a deal. Talk to some handicapped people and their families who are concerned about this legislation. They are easy to find. Modern Utopias have usually been reductive, removing the imperfect. Let us remember that. Why would I talk to anyone? I fully support any choice they make. Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted March 7, 2016 Report Posted March 7, 2016 Why would I talk to anyone? I fully support any choice they make. Do you understand what informed consent is? Quote
Guest Posted March 7, 2016 Report Posted March 7, 2016 Do you understand what informed consent is? Yes I do. Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted March 7, 2016 Report Posted March 7, 2016 Yes I do. So you should understand my concerns for the particular groups I have mentioned. Quote
cybercoma Posted March 7, 2016 Report Posted March 7, 2016 I certainly would not like to see this for minors. Vulnerable populations like the physically and mentally challenged and the psychiatrically ill also need to be protected against subtle coercion.So a minor with who's suffering from a debilitating and incurable illness has to continue suffering until they reach the age of majority? That makes no sense. Quote
Guest Posted March 7, 2016 Report Posted March 7, 2016 So you should understand my concerns for the particular groups I have mentioned. Of course. The whole point of DAS is choice. If informed choice cannot be made, then it becomes another issue. Given that, if someone does make an informed choice, I would like to see it respected. Quote
TimG Posted March 7, 2016 Report Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) Utterly false. I wish to inflict pain on nobody.Well, you may not want to inflict the pain yourself, however, you wish to arbitrarily deny people access to the technology that would allow them to end their pain because you decide they are in a 'vulnerable' group. The point of my hyperbole was to illustrate how it is impossible to take a position on this issue that does not cause harm in some hypothetical cases. The choice is only about which harm we are prepared to live with. That is why I think mental competence should be the only test required and properly prepared advance directives should be respected even if the person is no longer mentally competent. Edited March 7, 2016 by TimG Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted March 7, 2016 Report Posted March 7, 2016 The bizarre thing here is I support assisted suicide. What on earth do you say to people who don't? Quote
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