Martin tried to scrap health act

[maplesyrup]

So Sheila Copps is now revealing to all Canadians what a lot of us suspected about PM Martin all along. That he is another one of those deceiving right wing politicians that has never had the honesty to tell Canadians that he what he really wanted was to gut our social safety network, and send Canadian troops to Iraq.

And this is the crux of the problem for Harper. Canadians will never vote for him while they have another right winger in Paul Martin as PM unless Martin can be dragged into this Adscam mess or another scandal.

Sad that the right has to lie to get elected because they would never get elected if the citizens knew their real agenda ahead of time. And yet they kept talking 'bout morals and principles.

[Slavik44]

OTTAWA - Former Liberal cabinet minister Sheila Copps has dropped a political bombshell by accusing Prime Minister Paul Martin of planning to scrap the Canada Health Act when he was finance minister in 1995.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/20...pps_041022.html

looks like PM PM has a few skeletons in his closet, makes me kinda wonder whats next. This is just another example of Liberal dis-honesty and liberal corruption. They ran on being the saviors of healthcare, what kind of savior tries to kill what they are supposedly saving?

[Slavik44]

So Sheila Copps is now revealing to all Canadians what a lot of us suspected about PM Martin all along. That he is another one of those deceiving right wing politicians that has never had the honesty to tell Canadians that he what he really wanted was to gut our social safety network, and send Canadian troops to Iraq.

And this is the crux of the problem for Harper. Canadians will never vote for him while they have another right winger in Paul Martin as PM unless Martin can be dragged into this Adscam mess or another scandal.

Sad that the right has to lie to get elected because they would never get elected if the citizens knew their real agenda ahead of time. And yet they kept talking 'bout morals and principles.

During the election alot Liberal supporters appeared out of no where on this site, to tell us how the conservatives were going to destroy Healthcare, and we should be carefull fo this evil bogieman. Martin's Ad's continued to beyrate the CPC on being the party that would end our Healthcare, that would what make the CPC 10 years behind the Liberals? But what really scars me is hwo it was so clsoe to happening, which makes me wonder how many members of Cabnent supported this? And then How similar is the 1995 Cabnent to the one Martin originaly introduced when he just became PM?

It makes me wonder if Paul Martin had won the election with a majority would he have pulled the same stunt, with his handpicked Candidates, and his copp's less cabnent? It looks almost as though the boggieman in Paul Martin's adds really was Paul Martin.

[August1991]

All we have in this story is Copps' version of events. I heard a quote of Scot Reid from the PMO denying the allegation.

McLellan says any allegations that Martin did otherwise "are simply untrue."

Toronto Star

There in fact may be some truth to the story but I'd be willing to bet that Copps is putting spin on the story.

And what is it about the CBC/NDP/do-gooding left to get their shorts in a knot as soon as someone talks about health care? Would Canada as we know it cease to exist if the Canada Health Act were changed? Is that what this country has become? A law about medical care?

I also find it disingenuous of Copps' publisher to put an embargo on pre-publication stories and then arrange for such a leak.

Lastly, I never thought I'd defend PM PM but this Liberal Civil War is weird. I wonder if Chretien will get involved.

[MS, I've replied to Slavik because he provided a link to the article and his thread title is closer to the issue. Harper has nothing to do with this.]

[Newfie Canadian]

I suspect if we looked hard enough the closet wouldn't be a closet but a morgue.

And I would expect that. Paul Martin has been in government for a long time, in arguably the 2 most important positions in government, Finance Minister and PM. The government has been there for 12 years, with some modifcations, so with the arrogance of not being beaten comes the feeling that you can do no wrong, and if you do, you won't get caught, and if you do get caught you'll still win the election.

In regards to Healthcare, people think it's free, so they don't like any talk of change that may change that. Plus it is a distinguishing feature of Canadiana. It is partly psychological. If we lose Medicare, we become something else.

Chrétien may have his own questions to answer, now that it's out that his travell expenses for the last 2 years of power cost $15 million.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

[JWayne625]

Her allegations were not limited to just the Canada Health Act, they also included his recommendations to do away with Old Age Security Pensions and raising the retirement age to 67 years of age. The reason I say that is because one of the statements made by Martin during the election camapign was his support for abolishing the mandatory retirement age of 65 years of age. When I mentioned my fear to a Liberal friend, that the next step would be the raising of the age at which a person could qualify for OAS, my Liberal friend said that would never happen with the Liberals. Now we hear that Martin had proposed that very thing, but he took it even further by also recommending doing away with OAS period. This man is scarier than I thought!

Of course Scot Reid and other sitting Liberal's are going to attempt denying these allegations, they are sitting in the House of Commons in a minority situation. They certainly don't want to be going back to the electorate any time soon, especially with these kinds of facts floating around.

I was never a fan of Tequila Sheila's but in these matters I believe her, simply because Martin is looking for any ways he can find to cut federal expenses, which in turn will allow him room to give even more tax breaks to his corporate, and influential friend's in this country. Let's be honest here, Martin is there for the Martin types of this world and all of the other corporate welfare bums. If these revelations were not true, you can bet that Martin would be threatening to bring liable suits against her before she had time to blink. During the CTV interview I just watched on CTV.ca, she commented that she has documentation to back up every one of the statements made in her book.

[August1991]

The government has been there for 12 years, with some modifcations, so with the arrogance of not being beaten comes the feeling that you can do no wrong, and if you do, you won't get caught, and if you do get caught you'll still win the election.

Newf, you've hit the key point. What would the Liberals have to do to lose power?

Some say Harper seems scary but it was the Liberal attack ads that shifted opinions in the last few days of the campaign. Ads in effect paid for with sponsorship money.

The Liberal machine is a very ugly shark but in the minds of many voters in Ontario, Quebec and the Maritimes, there is simply no alternative.

The collapse of the Progressive Conservative Party was a result of Meech Lake. There are some very serious faultlines running below the Canadian surface. One indication is that the only party capable of forming a federal government is the Liberals.

Copps' suggestion that PM PM wanted to get rid of the Canada health Act will be a blip for the people in the PMO. They'll say she's not telling the truth and then they'll move on.

After all, if PM is not PM, the alternative is the end of Canada.

[kimmy]

I find the coverage this has received to be depressing.

Martin tried to scrap health act: Copps

is a lot more sensationalist than

In her book, Copps says Martin intended to replace it with a more flexible version that would be used as a "carrot" to get the provinces to accept reductions in transfer payments.

Dimwits will read the headline and go... " Martin tried to ruin healthcare in Canada?! :o "

There's a big leap from revising the Canada Health Act to implementing "US-style healthcare".

In what way did Martin wish to make the Canada Health Act more flexible? What did he feel was in need of revision?

I guess we'll have to buy Sheila's book to find out. Which is, of course, the whole point of this, isn't it?

-kimmy

[Newfie Canadian]

One indication is that the only party capable of forming a federal government is the Liberals.

And that's the rub, isn't it?

Until the Conservatives can find a way to overcome the perception that they are an evil party, if I may use that phrase, and find a niche in Ontario and Atlantic provinces (especially Ontario), we're stuck in this mess.

The Liberals can shoot themelves in the foot untill all their MP's are on crutches, but it won't matter one little iota if the CPC can't shake that perception.

Copps' suggestion that PM PM wanted to get rid of the Canada health Act will be a blip for the people in the PMO. They'll say she's not telling the truth and then they'll move on.

Done

[Cartman]

There's a big leap from revising the Canada Health Act to implementing "US-style healthcare".

If you eliminate the five principles of Canada's health care, you have US style health care. The program itself is not Canada, but the principles underlying it are part of our general value system.

The stakes are so high here that I tend to believe her accusations if spun a little. But, you do not need to take her word for it, just take a look at how transfer payments have plummeted for the last few decades beginning with Trudeau. Through de-indexed bloc payments with more provincial flexibility as to how they are spent, the program had to contract. Really, she is saying nothing new here. I am a little surprised that she did not say all of this before the last election.

[August1991]

During the CTV interview I just watched on CTV.ca, she commented that she has documentation to back up every one of the statements made in her book.

I am a little surprised that she did not say all of this before the last election.

What are we supposed to make of this? If it is so important, and she had evidence, why did she wait until now to tell us? Shouldn't she have informed us before the election?

[Cartman]

If it is so important, and she had evidence, why did she wait until now to tell us? Shouldn't she have informed us before the election?

Good point and I got nothin here. From what I have read, she already had the evidence in hand so why not release it? Fear of being labeled a "turncoat"? But, if she cannot verify her claims, I am sure that Martin and gang will go after her and she knows this better than I. That is why I tend to believe her precise statements.

Her recent comments make me wonder what was said in those meetings she had with Layton before and during the election.

[August1991]

From what I have read, she already had the evidence in hand so why not release it?

How to advise Copps? If I were on her staff:

One angle: "I didn't want to be a turncoat." (You mean being Liberal is above being Canadian? Looks bad.)

Another angle: "I waited because I wanted good Liberals to get elected." (Too crass and calculated.)

How about: "I didn't have all the facts assembled." (Looks like the facts are weak.)

Final angle: "I feel uncomfortable in what I'm doing. But I want to make Canada a better country." (Does all of the above and changes the subject.)