the strange love affair: france, saudi and israel

[Rue]

Hudson and Bud's recycling of the Jews control the US on behalf of Israel via AIPAC and the accusation by Hudson Jones I am part of a Jew tribal racist conspiracy are par for the course.

The personal attacks as to my Jewishness are a well known tactic. They can focus away from the actual issues in dispute and try dettract from the fallacy of the initial comments out forth by Hudson or Bud that once challenged can not be defended.

Now in regards to the repeated canard about Jews controlling the US foreign policy, media, and your sex life let's once again reveal the idiocy of such allegations particularly when lowered to the point where they are attached to comments that suggest Zionists, Jews or anyone supporting Israel is diabolical (a retreaded reference to the Jews are devil satanist evil creatures).

In the entire world, there are about 13.3 million Jews. Look out now that makes us .2% of the world population and yet we control its banks, media and of course the U.S. In the the US, there are maybe 6 million Jews. Look out people, that amounts to 2% of the population, but hey we Jews have magic powers because we still control US foreign policy, its media and we get into the minds of congressmen and senators and turn them into Zionist zombies. Never mind Kerry and Obama seem to be oblivious to our spell or the zombie Romney didn't succeed in taking over the US.

Here's the bottom line. If just once we could stick to a debate about Israeli policies it would be unusual. It always devolves into a call for incitement of hatred against Israeli Jews, Jews and non Jews who support Israel's right to exist. Bud and Hudson never miss the opportunity to assign accusations of racism, hatred, and other negative characteristics against such people with zero proof of this. Likewise out come the accusations of mind control with zero proof.

What we see are subjective opinions presented as facts with no basis and then when the opinions are challenged-a suggestion a person who engages in such attacks accusing others of racism is a victim of racism.

I will put it to bed again. You want to criticize Israeli state policies. That's faiur. Go the next step and use that pretense of criticizing Israeli policies to deny Jews have a right to a nation and suggest they are diabolical, then I call it what it is racism or better put anti-Jewish hatred or anti-semitism.

Never once has Bud or Hudson Jones or for that matter Ghost come on this forum and explained why Jews do not have the right of self determination but Arabs do, Christians do, everyone else on the planet does, just not Jews.

What logic is it that says all other people can develop their culture, customs, language, use their state to advocate one official religion, but if a Jew does it, suddenly its racist.

How is it Hudson and Bud will accuse Israel of ethnic cleansing for its policy with Beduins but remain absolutely silent when the exact same policies are enacted iN Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Oman, to name but a few Arab League states?

How is it Israel engages in ethnic cleansing when the Beduin Arabs of Israel have the highest birth rate in the entire world? How is that ethnic cleansing? How is it ethnic cleansing to provide Beduins child benefits, land ownership, compensation and reserve 20% of Israel's land for them and yet in all other Arab League nations, Beduins are not allowed to own land. In Israel they vote and have access to hospitals, schools and health and community services. In fact no Arab league nation offers them these rights and yet do you hear Bud and Hudson speak of one other country when discussing the Beduins? Why? Why the repeated silence?

Why the double standard? Why the references to be being a Jew while Hudson refuses to disclose his nationality/ How about Bud, will he disclose his? Is the standard to attack me for being a Jew the way to debate these topics? How is it neither discloses their nationality?

How is it my nationality is relevant to criticize and be used to suggest I am not credible and bias, but they will not disclose their nationalities and take such equal criticism?

What makes me bias for being a Jew, but them not bias because of their undisclosed nationalities?

I say it again-Israel is not a racist state because it created a state designed to protect Jews. It is not racist because it has a law of return no different than the law of return in over 125 nations, all nations Bud and Hudson won't acknowledge. You read it here. Bud claimed Japan had laws that did not offer a law of return for any person of Japanese ethnicity which is not true.

He stated the security laws preventing marriage to non Jews of countries in hostile relations with Israel only applied to Palestinians when it applies equally to Israeli Jews and any other Israeli and not just Arab Israelis.

Now we see in this debate we are told that Arab Israelis who clearly call themselves that and NOT Palestinians because they choose to remain Israelis are magically Palestinians a people who make it clear they are not Israelis.

I am told I am racist. I am told I presume to tell Beduins what to do. Hudson has illustrated that because he thinks I am a Jew and a Zionist I must hate Beduins or presume to know what is right for them. I mean he knows. I am a Jew Zionist after all. That automatically makes me think the way he assigns thought processes and other characteristics to the tribal Jew....

No. Never again.

Jews do not have to apologize for having self determination.

[bud]

it's not a secret that AIPAC and pro-israeli lobbies pay out lots of money to these u.s. politicians. all you have to do is to look at the money the congressmen/women and senators receive from AIPAC. the more money they receive, the harder they fight for AIPAC. it's not some conspiracy. it's how politics work.

you want to see a list of contributions to american politicians, go here. this is how the warmongering zionists influence the u.s. foreign policy.

[bush_cheney2004]

AIPAC is a bipartisan, American lobby for Israeli interests. Americans have the right to organize and contribute to political campaigns. Apparently AIPAC is more successful than the Canadian lumber or bitumen pipeline lobbyists in Washington, D.C.

Edited November 19, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[Rue]

Bud/Hudson your tactic of singling out Israel and ignoring the conduct of other Arab states and the terrorist groups that operate within them is thread worn.

You "both" have come on this forum repeatedly spinning that AIPAC controls foreign policy of the US and there is something sinister in how it does it including throwing out the inference because it provides donations to US senators and congressman this is diabolical and proof of how it gets its influence.

Interesting you make no mention of the fact that AIPAC does nothing no other lobby group does including the Arab lobby in Washington and yet AIPAC is the only lobby you single out for such actions. Why? Do either of you have any shred of credibility and the intellectual honesty to discuss anything in non partisan terms?

Your remaining silent on the treatment of Beduins in Arab world speaks for itself. Its no different than your silence as to how Palestinians have been treated or non Muslims are treated in the Arab world.

Now you do the same only you throw out the usual canard of AIPAC being sinister and controlling the US foreign policy through money.Ah yes the old Jews use money to influence canard.

It stops here.

Since 1951 anyone can find out for themselves how the Arab lobby has worked and how it is absolutely no different than AIPAC. In AIPAC's case it tries to coincide Israeli foreign policy interests with those of the US and forming alliances through the military industrial complex through technology transfers. In the case of the Arab Lobby they hitched themselves on to the greater oil lobby and influence foreign policy through the US need for oil.

Interesting how you w Bud and Hudson repeatedly advance the Joo conspiracy but never discuss how the Arab League has used the production of oil and its banks and lobbying network to gain foreign policy influence. Not a peep. There's also the Association of Arab-American University Graduates, The American Arab Discrimination Committee and the Arab American Institute. Is Bud or Hudson suggesting they have no influence? Will they even admit they exist? In the Hudson Bud world, Israel and any lobby group in favour of Israel's existence works in a vacuum. They exist, therefore they control. There's no level playing field with other lobby groups when competing for the attention of American politicians, why no, the Jew lobby just controls.

Bud and Hudson in past posts have listed the names of influential Jews and all the people they control but interesting they will not mention that the Arab lobby hires former members of Congress, former diplomats and power brokers as well.

In the Bud and Hudson world Jews throw out the money hint hint nudge nudge those rich Jews use their money to control the world but Arab governments who pay lobbying firms that work to influence the American government policy get no mention. Why?

Its public domain how much the Arab lobby groups pay to their lobby firms, i.e., Patton Boggs, Qorvis ($14 mil. per year). Why norom Bud/Hudson? Why no mention of the Turkish, Egyptian, Morrocan, United Arab Emirates, Saudi, Algeria, Libya lobbies and the millions they pay out and have paid out?

How is it .2% of the world's population magically controls the US foreign policy in spite of the powerful Arab-oil lobby? What magic is it?

How is it that 4 of the top 10 government lobby groups in Washington are Arab but Bud and Hudson will only mention AIPAC?

How is it when AIPAC is presented as this all controlling force of foreign policy, Hudson-Bud remain silent on the fact that the UAE today is the no.1 lobby group on Congressional hill spending over 11 million per year...?

Bud and Hudson's script does not allow them to acknowledge the Arab lobby exists let alone spends more money than the combined Jewish lobby just as it does not allow them to discuss how the standards it criticizes Israel for not adhering to, no Arab nation adheres to. In their world, we have a script where one can only engage in partisan comments against Israel. We can use any issue against Israel but we can not in any manner shape or form criticize any Arab league nation or the treatment of Palestinians, Beduins or non Muslims by Arab nations or the treatment of Palestinians by Hamas, Fatah Hawks, the PA.

In their world, all is ignored and all that exists is Israel a diabolical force that controls us all and renders us hateful racist war mongers.

Not on this forum. The script comes, I will be waiting. Hi boys anything else for today?

^]

Edited November 19, 2013 by Rue

[bud]

ah right.

okay. so let's exam the top house israeli funded recipient and how they respond to their masters:

Ileana Ros-Lehtinen $238,685

ros-lehtinen, who is the chair of the house foreign affairs committee is one of the biggest influenced ($) of the american politicians in the house. she is heavily funded by the israeli lobby. one of her top individual donors is the extremist settlement king, Irving Moskowitz. he is behind many of the extremist settlements in the west bank and east jerusalem.

this explains why she is behind all the bills that AIPAC has requested. basically, the bills concerning iran and the occupied territories. she introduces them and then the rest of hundreds of israeli funded american politicians say yes to them. it's so simple in how it works.

if you want to deny the heavy influence of the israeli lobby, then you need to deny that ileana ros-lehtinen and hundreds of other such politicians exist.

Edited November 19, 2013 by bud

[Rue]

Bud that is laughable. Dubai paid former Senator Bob Dole $320,000 to represent one of its companies defend taking financial control of vital US sea ports. A couple of days work for him.

You even have a point to make other then hat lobbyists exist? You really wnt to keep going with your Joo conspiracy Bud? Really?

What Bud you want to pretend there is no Aramco, a lobby group of top US oil companies that must lobby for pro Arab foreign policy interests as a price to access oil from the Middle East?

You want to ignore all the former US senators, congressmen, state officials that went to work for Arab lobby groups?

You want to pretend that as we speak there are 21 Arab governments al paying for lobby groups that influence US politicians?

You want names? Go check out how much money Bob Livingstomn, Tony Podesta and Tobby Moffett make, Or better still Bud, finish what you started and explain the millions Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Morrocco, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan have paid to lobby the US.

Tell me Bud, you want to pretend Patton Boggs and Qurvis just 2 lobby groups alone are paid $14 mil. per year by Saudi Arabia?

How about in 2009 whent he UAE paid $5.3 mil, Algeria, $600,000, Turkey $1.7 mil.

Go ob Bud finish what you started.explain how ProPublica is wrong when it exposed 4 of the top 10 government lobbyists as being Arab and no one in the top 10 was pro Israeli. Explain how the UAE spent 10.914 mil in 2007-2008.

Your script is a joke Bud. It tries to spin a Joo conspiracy in Washington when AIPAC has to deal with 21 Arab government lobbies and over 10 Arab interest groups including CAIRO all dedicated to Israel's destruction.

Better still Bud do explain to us all why it was on Feb.8, 2012, the Obama regime implemented an initiative which required the FBI, Homeland Security, the CIA and its state department to go on a massive campaign to delete and censor a wide range of information on the Muslim Brotherhood and Arab terrorist groups calling it politially offensive to Muslims.

Go on Bud finish what you start.

Your problem Bud is your script is stale. Real stale. It was written in the 1940's by Goebbels former roaches who moved to Syria.

Its stale dated Bud. Go back to your handlers and have them revise their script. The problem Bud is the sheer volume of money and networking between Arab interests and the Petro lobby can not be ignored. Its just too big.

Obama is in bed now with an Arab fundamentalist component of the Middle East that wants to replace Egypt and Saudi Arabia as the leader of the Middle East. It first tried to get into bed with the Turkish Muslim Brotherhood, then Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood and now has turned to Iran and is trying to replace Saudi Arabia and Egypt with them.

Its not working Bud. Putin seized the opportunity to grab Egypt and Saudi Arabia into its network and if you think Obama can turn on Israel, Egypt and Saudi Arabia, as well as the entire Muslim moderate world, think again.

Obama has sided with Muslim fundamentalists dedicated to stamping out the liberal moderates of all these regimes. All its going to do is cause them to turn on the US and turn to Russia.

But do go on Bud trying to spin your pretend world where there is a JOOOOOOOOO conspiracy but no Arab lobby.

Lol.

^Your

Edited November 20, 2013 by Rue

[bud]

we're talking about the influence of foreign policy and you bring up the lobbying of an ex senator so that dubai could buy a port. yeah, it's great that you're able to visit wikipedia and post information that does NOT refute the power and influence that israel and the zionist lobby has over the american foreign policy, but it doesn't change reality.

you need to stay focused rue.

you waste people's time, so i like to spend as little time as possible to deal with your incoherent, unfocused keyboard pounding. here is part of an article by stephen walt, that crushes a similar moot argument that jeffrey goldberg tried to make about arab lobbies:

Let's look at the vast influence that the "Arab lobby" has wielded in recent years.

1. It is undoubtedly the all-powerful Arab lobby that ensures that Israel gets $3-4 billion in economic and military aid each year, even when it does things that the United States opposes, like building settlements. And were it not for the Arab lobby, the United States would be putting a lot of pressure on Israel to sign the Non-Proliferation Treaty and come clean about its nuclear arsenal.

2. It was the vaunted Arab lobby that convinced President Bush to delay a U.N. ceasefire resolution during the Lebanon War of 2006, so that Israel could try to finish off Hezbollah and continue bombing civilian areas in Lebanon. Pressure from the Arab lobby also convinced Congress to pass a resolution backing Israel to the hilt, and to remove language from the original draft that called for both sides to "protect civilian life and infrastructure."

3. When Ambassador Charles Freeman was nominated to chair the National Intelligence Council in 2009, the vast Arab lobby promptly launched a successful smear campaign to deny him the post, running roughshod over his outnumbered and powerless defenders at the New Republic,Wall Street Journal, Atlantic Monthly, and Washington Post.

4. When Obama asked Israel to implement a settlement freeze in 2009, the Arab lobby promptly swung into action and drafted open letters warning the President not to put any pressure on Israel. These resolutions passed overwhelmingly in both Houses, another sign of the Arab lobby's political clout.

5. When Israel attacked Gaza in December 2008, the Arab lobby was there to prevent the U.S. from interfering. And when the Goldstone Report raised the issue of possible Israeli war crimes in that war, the Arab Lobby no doubt called the Obama administration and told it to condemn the report, which it promptly did.

6. Needless to say, the insidious power of the Arab lobby no doubt explains why we have a former employee of the "pro-Israel" Washington Institute for Near East Policy (and former head of the Jewish People's Policy Planning Institute) in a key role guiding U.S. Middle East policy. Aaron Miller was dead wrong when he said the United States acts as "Israel's lawyer"; the Arab lobby ensures that U.S. government officials constantly take the Arab side whenever disputes arise.

7. The long arm of the "Arab lobby" also shapes our public discourse, aided by the chorus of pro-Arab, pro-Palestinian, and pro-Muslim columnists and pundits at the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, New Republic, and Atlantic Monthly. And you'd better not say anything critical of an Arab country or of Islam, or the Anti-Defamation League will denounce you and you might even lose your job.

8. And don't forget to sign up for the Arab Lobby's annual "Policy Conference" in Washington, where you will see a bevy of politicians from both parties lining up to proclaim their commitment to the "unshakeable" alliance between the United States and the Arab and Muslim world.

Obviously, none of these things happened because of the "Arab lobby," but the Israel lobby played a key role in all of them. In short, Goldberg's latest assertions don't even pass the giggle test. And if he wants to talk about money, let's consider campaign contributions. According to The Economist,between 1990 and 2004 pro-Israel political action committees gave nearly $57 million dollars to candidates and parties, while Arab-American and Muslim PACs gave slightly less than $700,000. Wow: that's some "Arab lobby!" And that's just the PAC money, not contributions by individuals.

link

the above article was written before adelson came into the picture, you know, the same ugly, diabolical morally bankrupt zionist billionaire who has built his empire through casinos. the same one-issue guy, who has advocates nuking iran, the same degenerate who spent over $30 million on elections in the u.s. because he wanted a real zionist yes-man in the office.

rue: you can fight reality or you can learn and then accept reality:

Or we could discuss the role of Haim Saban, an Israel-American businessman who has said that "I'm a one-issue guy, and my issue is Israel." Saban has been the largest single contributor to the Democratic Party in recent years, and according to a profile by Connie Bruck in The New Yorker,Saban told a conference in Israel that there were "three ways to be influential in American politics … make donations to political parties, establish think tanks, and control media outlets." Gee, if I said something like that, Goldberg would probably say I was channeling the Protocols.

In short, despite the money that some Arab countries spend on PR firms, the "Arab lobby" is not a meaningful political force when it comes to the broad thrust of U.S. Middle East policy, and certainly not on issues affecting Israel. But you don't have to take my word for it. You could ask former President Bill Clinton, who said that AIPAC was "better than anyone at lobbying in this town," or former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, who called it "the most effective general-interest group … across the entire planet." Former Senator Fritz Hollings (D-SC) said upon his retirement that "you can't have an Israel policy other than what AIPAC gives you around here," and former Congressman Lee Hamilton (D-IN) who served for 32 years, said "there's no lobby group that matches it ... they're in a class by themselves." Or consider the words of the late Senator Barry Goldwater (R-AZ) who said "I was never put under greater pressure than by the Israeli lobby, nor has the Senate as a whole. It's the most influential crowd in Congress and America by far."

[Rue]

Lol your problem Bud is you really believe there is black and white on each and every answer-your way

or no way and that Bud is why you try lecture me and I write back in mocking tones.

For you to persist in this absurd debate that there is an Israeli lobby and somehow that makes it sinister and

in control of the US while you refuse to acknowledge the Arab lobby and its connection to the US congress

and its influence as well speaks for itself.

You have not repudiated a word I have said. In fact Bud you have rendered your own assertion a joke.

When Senator Dole represented Dubai interests it was in regards to strategic control of major ports in the U.S.

If you can not understand the defence implications of that to the US and how it would impact on its economy and

pretend its irrelevant while in the same breath suggest someone else doing the same thing he does is the only

lobbyist to pay attention to speaks for itself.

By the way Bud, you do realize when you reply your put downs match word for word the put downs of Hudson.

This is why I have reason to believe you are one and the same. I see very little if any difference in your wordings when

you converse with me.

In fact Bud I have been trying and I think I have done a good job drawing out the taunts to show you "2|" use the exact same taunts

right down to the references as to reality, paying attention, etc.

Keep up the "battle" you "2".

[bud]

Lol your problem Bud is you really believe there is black and white on each and every answer-your way

or no way and that Bud is why you try lecture me and I write back in mocking tones.

i don't think anything is black and white. so far, i have brought up the points that saudi and israel are in bed together and you tried to refute that. then there was talk about israel and zionist influence over american foreign policy and you have comeback with a hysterical reaction and accusations of anti-semitism despite the overwhelming evidence that there is an unmatched influence by israel and the zionist lobby on american politics.

i point to facts. i provide links to back them up. i am coherent. i am to the point. i am focused. i base my argument on reality. while you are and you do none of those.

let me know when you're able to respond to any of the points. until then, i'm not going to be responding to incoherent and erratic posts.

[Rue]

Bud we can play the game of quotes if you want:

from Mitchell Bard for example;

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/10/10/mitchell-bard-the-arab-lobby-%e2%80%94-the-real-powerbrokers-in-washington/

"....Within a few weeks of taking office as the nation’s 44th president, however, Obama seemed to pick a fight with the Israeli government over its settlements policy. He began to publicly demand that Israel freeze all settlement activity. When Israeli officials brought up the fact that certain understandings had been reached with Obama’s predecessor regarding what the United States considered to be acceptable construction, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton denied any such agreements had been made.

In July 2009, Obama invited a group of Jewish leaders to the White House who were content to hear the President’s views and asked only that he refrain from public criticism. Obama made clear he would do no such thing.

Israelis tried to steer the administration away from the settled ment issue toward what they believed was the most urgent threat to their nation and the stability of the region, namely, the Iranian nuclear program. Obama’s [former] chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, coincidentally a Jew whose father is Israeli, said that the Israeli-Palestinian issue was the crux of solving the Iranian threat. Administration officials argued that the only way they could get Arab states to co-operate in the effort to stop the Iranian program was to solve the Palestinian issue.

Meanwhile, Obama’s first interview as President was with an Arab publication, and his first trip to the Middle East omitted Israel and was highlighted by a speech in Cairo that was meant to reach out to the Muslim world. Ten months into his term, he still had not visited Israel, and the persistent public criticism by his administration had reduced the percentage of Israelis who considered him a friend of Israel to a shockingly low 4%.

Thus, in less than a year, President Obama had created what appeared to be a crisis with his only democratic ally in the region while doing everything in his power to curry favour with the Arab and Muslim world. After eight years of feeling encumbered, the foreign policy establishment found an ally in the White House who shared their long-standing view that America’s Middle East policy can best be served by cultivating relations with the Arabs and distancing the United States from Israel.

The Obama policy, however, seems to fly in the face of the conspiracy theorists who have long believed in an all-powerful Jewish/Israeli lobby that controls U.S. Middle East policy to the detriment of the national interest.

How can this be explained?

U.S. policy is not controlled by an omnipotent Israeli lobby but rather heavily influenced by an equally potent — yet much less visible — Arab lobby that is driven by ideology, oil and arms to support Middle Eastern regimes that often oppose American values and interests.

It is understandable if this statement is surprising, given that few books or articles examine the Arab lobby, while there is a long history of conspiracy theories suggesting that Jews control everything from the media to the U.S. Congress to the global financial system.

...The point is to highlight how the debate may be distorted because of the vast financial resources of the Arab lobby, and to expose some of its efforts to manipulate public opinion and foreign policy in ways that have gone largely unnoticed and demand greater scrutiny."

You really want to keep up this absurd debate Bud, here:

Also please don’t forget to go get his book and here’s another snappy quote for you:

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/44096/the-arab-lobby

" The real power is in the hands of the Arab lobby’s oil sector, the role of which is to keep the Arab oil producers happy by ensuring that Americans stay addicted to oil, that the defense industry keeps its production lines open, and that the image of Arab states stays polished, even for state sponsors of terror, like Saudi Arabia, and states whose rule is founded on flagrant social inequalities, the torture of dissidents and unbelievers, and other practices that most Americans rightly find abhorrent."

Bud I love this one at http://www.meforum.org/2773/arab-lobby:

"In reality, the Israel lobby has never had the lobbying playing field to itself. While detractors of Israel see a Zionist behind each Middle East policy decision, they ignore all those who have been agitating behind the scenes for the adoption of policies favorable to the Arabs or hostile toward Israel. Thus, while Louis Brandeis may have lobbied Woodrow Wilson for U.S. support for the Balfour declaration, the president’s closest advisor, "Colonel" Edward House, vigorously opposed it. Harry Truman’s friend Eddie Jacobson asked for the president’s support for Israel but his secretary of state, George Marshall, threatened to vote against Truman if he recognized the newly established state. Similar examples can be found in the history of every U.S. administration. "

Here is an article to die for Bud you'll just love it:

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/guidedesc.asp?catid=178&type=group

"Axis Information and Analysis (AIA), which specializes in information about Asia and Eastern Europe, rated Prince Bandar Bin Sultan -- a Saudi ambassador to the U.S. from 1983 to 2005 -- as the single most influential foreigner in America. With links to high-ranking officials in the State Department, Pentagon, and CIA, Sultan was a key participant in many clandestine negotiations pertaining to U.S. interests in the Middle East. According to AIA, in 1990-91 it was Sultan who pushed President George H.W. Bush to launch the military campaign to drive Iraqi forces out of Kuwait. Moreover, his father -- Sultan Bin Abdul Aziz al Saud -- was a leading figure in the ruling Saudi dynasty. As such, he helped determine the extent of his nation’s military cooperation with the U.S. in the Persian Gulf. "

One last thing Bud, I couldn't resist an article from Al Jazeera discussing the Arab Lobby's influence on the US since we know in your world anyone or anything that does not agree with you is a Zionist fiend, I just had to get this anti Israel media network to show how absurd your debate is and you'll simply adore this quote:

The Pentagon's relationship with the Gulf Cooperation Council countries has been cemented in several key ways seldom emphasised in American reporting on the region. Military aid is one key factor. Bahrain alone took home $20 million in US military assistance last year.

In an allied area, there is the rarely discussed triangular marriage between defence contractors, the Gulf states, and the Pentagon. The six Gulf nations (along with regional partner Jordan) are set to spend $70 billion on weaponry and equipment this year, and as much as $80 billion per year by 2015.

As the Pentagon looks for ways to shore up the financial viability of weapons makers in tough economic times, the deep pockets of the Gulf States have taken on special importance.

Beginning last October, the Pentagon started secretly lobbying financial analysts and large institutional investors, talking up weapons makers and other military contractors it buys from to bolster their long-term financial viability in the face of a possible future drop in defence department spending.

The Gulf States represent another avenue toward the same goal. It's often said that the Pentagon is a "monopsony", the only buyer in town for its many giant contractors, but that isn't entirely true.

The Pentagon is also the sole conduit through which its Arab partners in the Gulf can buy the most advanced weaponry on Earth. By acting as a go-between, the Pentagon can ensure that the weapons manufacturers it relies on will be financially sound well into the future.

A $60 billion deal with Saudi Arabia this past fall, for example, ensured that Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, and other mega-defence contractors would remain healthy and profitable even if Pentagon spending goes slack or begins to shrink in the years to come.

Pentagon reliance on Gulf money, however, has a price. It couldn't have taken the Arab lobby long to explain how quickly their spending spree might come to an end if a cascade of revolutions suddenly turned the region democratic.

An even more significant aspect of the relationship between the Gulf states and the department of defence is the Pentagon's shadowy archipelago of bases across the Middle East.

While the Pentagon hides or downplays the existence of many of them, and while Gulf countries often conceal their existence from their own populations as much as possible, the US military maintains sites in Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Oman, Qatar, Kuwait, and of course Bahrain – homeport for the Fifth Fleet, whose 30 ships, including two aircraft carriers, patrol the Persian Gulf, the Arabian Sea, and the Red Sea."

Anything else boys?

　

　

[bud]

"....Within a few weeks of taking office as the nation’s 44th president, however, Obama seemed to pick a fight with the Israeli government over its settlements policy. He began to publicly demand that Israel freeze all settlement activity. When Israeli officials brought up the fact that certain understandings had been reached with Obama’s predecessor regarding what the United States considered to be acceptable construction, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton denied any such agreements had been made.

there are many example why the above is more b.s. by the zionist PR machine, who tries to create a controversy where controversy does not exist. crying wolf is a favourite pastime of the loud and absurd zionist PR machine. just the other day, david makovsky joined u.s. envoy martyn indyk’s "peace" team. how does makovsky's addition to this team, including indyk's position himself prove the incredible influence the zionist lobby has on u.s. foreign policy?

makovsky, a zionist jew, former editor of the right-leaning jerusalem post, was until now a fellow at the washington institute for near east policy. AIPAC and indyk, then a researcher for AIPAC, were the driving force behind the institute.

the example shows how powerful and influential AIPAC and the israeli lobby and how absurd it is to claim that obama's policy is anti-israel. it's absurd to even suggest that any other lobby, including the arab lobby comes anywhere close to influencing u.s. foreign policy like the israeli lobby does.

the israeli lobby has an unmatched influence on the u.s. foreign policy, especially when it comes to matters concerning israel. i don't expect you to take my word for it, instead take the words of:

President Bill Clinton, who said that AIPAC was "better than anyone at lobbying in this town,"

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, who called it "the most effective general-interest group … across the entire planet."

Former Senator Fritz Hollings (D-SC) said upon his retirement that "you can't have an Israel policy other than what AIPAC gives you around here,"

Former Congressman Lee Hamilton (D-IN) who served for 32 years, said "there's no lobby group that matches it ... they're in a class by themselves."

Or consider the words of the late Senator Barry Goldwater (R-AZ) who said "I was never put under greater pressure than by the Israeli lobby, nor has the Senate as a whole. It's the most influential crowd in Congress and America by far."

Former head of AIPAC, Morris Amitay, once noted that "we rarely see [oil and corporate] interests lobbying on foreign policy issues. … in a sense, we have the field to ourselves."

Or as AIPAC's former legislative director, Douglas Bloomfield, told the BBC in 2003: "AIPAC has one enormous advantage. It really doesn't have any opposition." Precisely.

you want to deny the obvious, then you will have to deal with the fact that you are denying what the people above have said.

[Rue]

Hah. That's it..b.s. Zionist pr machine?

What I like the best Bud is not only your refusal to acknowledge an Arab lobby exists and has influence but

you try pass off that denial as me denying AIPAC exists or is influential. Hah.That's a hell of a tactic Bud considering every time you try use it I throw it back at you. You really think its working Bud?

Bud your attempts to misrepresent what I say, attack me personally and ignore the points I raise speak

for themselves.Bud at no time have I denied AIPAC does not exist or does not influence politicians. Of course it does. You are the one who came on this board suggesting it controls the US foreign policy and now will not admit an Arab Lobby exists in coalition with a petro-chemical one and influences US foreign policy.

You have also provided zero proof that AIPAC lobbying is any more magical than anyone else's lobbying efforts. What you do of course, is throw out subjective opinions or quotes that do not prove your point.

In fact Bud I have stated numerous times on this forum that AIPAC's relative success has been to coincide its interests withthe military industrial complex's interests. If the 2 do not coincide, AIPAC has none of the mythical powers you and Hudson like to throw out as part o your JOOOOOOO conspiracy threads right down to the Jews engaging in sinister and diabolical control with money and other Jooo boogy man things.

Get real Bud. Congress is full of competing lobby groups. AIPAC does not work in isolation and never has. The Arab lobby has been deeply tied in with the petro-chemical lobby since 1951. It does not need to do anything but get the oil lobby to do its bidding.

Not withstanding that, there are 21 Arab nations all lobbying congress and over 15 non profit organizations lobbying congress. Denying it exists with a childish Zionist PR name calling response simply shows once again you can't handle it when I point out to you there are 2 sides to this debate, not one.

Get a reality check Bud. To pretend the petro chemical lobby is not influenced by the Arab lobby and does not have clut and influenceUS foreign policy effectively is a joke.

Regards,

Rube the Zionist PR machine

Edited November 22, 2013 by Rue

[bud]

What I like the best Bud is not only your refusal to acknowledge an Arab lobby exists and has influence

you obviously are not paying attention if you are saying i refuse to acknowledge that an arab lobby exists. of course they exist.

what i have said is that no one comes close to the israeli/zionist lobby when it comes to u.s. foreign policy, especially when it comes to the israeli/palestinian issues.

i have given examples of this by providing the unmatched financial support that congressmen and senators receive from the israeli lobby.

i have given an example of something that just happened recently, where the u.s. negotiation team for the israeli/palestinian issue is lead by two former AIPAC policy makers.

i have given quotes from presidents, congressmen, senators and AIPAC members, backing up what i have been saying. that AIPAC's influence on u.s. government is unmatched.

yet, you're still in denial.

Edited November 22, 2013 by bud

[bush_cheney2004]

i have given quotes from presidents, congressmen, senators and AIPAC members, backing up what i have been saying. that AIPAC's influence on u.s. government is unmatched.

False.....keep this dirty fight about U.S. policy in the narrow box that it is. Other American lobby groups have far more influence than AIPAC based on government outlays and the puny $15 billion in TOTAL foreign aid, regardless of who it goes to. Now back to squabbling over what Americans choose to do.

[bud]

False.....keep this dirty fight about U.S. policy in the narrow box that it is. Other American lobby groups have far more influence than AIPAC based on government outlays and the puny $15 billion in TOTAL foreign aid, regardless of who it goes to. Now back to squabbling over what Americans choose to do.

i suppose you are more qualified to answer that than, bill clinton, u.s. congressmen, senators and even AIPAC heads.

[bush_cheney2004]

i suppose you are more qualified to answer that than, bill clinton, u.s. congressmen, senators and even AIPAC heads.

I am certainly more qualified than you. There are lobbying and PAC dollars involved that dwarf anything from AIPAC. There are more domestic and foreign issues for the U.S. to worry about than your narrow obsession with AIPAC, Israel, and Palestinians. But in the end, the U.S. will spend its blood and treasure however it pleases. Advice from Vancouver not relevant.

[bud]

I am certainly more qualified than you. There are lobbying and PAC dollars involved that dwarf anything from AIPAC. There are more domestic and foreign issues for the U.S. to worry about than your narrow obsession with AIPAC, Israel, and Palestinians. But in the end, the U.S. will spend its blood and treasure however it pleases. Advice from Vancouver not relevant.

your qualifications as compared to mine is a matter of opinion. but your qualification as compared to a u.s. president, u.s. congressman, u.s. senator and AIPAC heads is not a matter of opinion. they know better than you do.

that said, if you had paid attention, we have been talking about AIPAC's influence on u.s. foreign policy. which is unmatched by any other lobby group.

[bush_cheney2004]

your qualifications as compared to mine is a matter of opinion. but your qualification as compared to a u.s. president, u.s. congressman, u.s. senator and AIPAC heads is not a matter of opinion. they know better than you do.

The U.S. has spent more on Iraq and Afghanistan since 2001 than on all the foreign aid sent to Israel, Egypt, Jordan, and Palestine...ever. So much for the "power" of AIPAC. Maybe they had a better lobby, huh ?

that said, if you had paid attention, we have been talking about AIPAC's influence on u.s. foreign policy. which is unmatched by any other lobby group.

Oh, I was paying attention, that's why I caught your blatant mistake above. Please stay inside the favorite AIPAC obsession that interests you, because the U.S. has always had bigger fish to fry, and always will.

[ReeferMadness]

Jews do not have to apologize for having self determination.

You can have whatever you want. What you can't do is hide the hypocrisy of a bunch of nuclear armed countries trying to prevent the rest of the world from getting the same. Do you know how I knew that Iraq didn't have nuclear weapons? I knew it when the US and UK invaded them. If Saddam had nukes and a reasonable delivery system, they never would have touched him. That lesson has not been lost on the surrounding countries.

You want non-proliferation? Great, me too. The place to start is for the existing nuclear powers to start getting rid of theirs. Then you can get all high and mighty about Iran or anywhere else.

[bud]

The U.S. has spent more on Iraq and Afghanistan since 2001 than on all the foreign aid sent to Israel, Egypt, Jordan, and Palestine...ever. So much for the "power" of AIPAC. Maybe they had a better lobby, huh ?

Oh, I was paying attention, that's why I caught your blatant mistake above. Please stay inside the favorite AIPAC obsession that interests you, because the U.S. has always had bigger fish to fry, and always will.

thanks for adding nothing to the discussion.

[bud]

You can have whatever you want. What you can't do is hide the hypocrisy of a bunch of nuclear armed countries trying to prevent the rest of the world from getting the same. Do you know how I knew that Iraq didn't have nuclear weapons? I knew it when the US and UK invaded them. If Saddam had nukes and a reasonable delivery system, they never would have touched him. That lesson has not been lost on the surrounding countries.

You want non-proliferation? Great, me too. The place to start is for the existing nuclear powers to start getting rid of theirs. Then you can get all high and mighty about Iran or anywhere else.

rue does not believe in equality. his tribalism and blind nationalism does not permit him in seeing everyone as equals. this is why he apologizes for israel's violations of human rights against palestinians and minorities inside israel and in the occupied territories. this is why he becomes a hypocrite when he demands that other countries not be able to have nuclear weapons, while his tribe sits on hundreds of nukes.

[Rue]

Lol now Bud you claim to speak for me and ooopsy lapse into the exact identical language of 'Hudson jones' with the

attempts to taunt with tribal accusations? Lol.

What tribe are you Bud. Finish what you started. Go on tell everyone what tribe you are since you engage me in

anti semitic taunts. Go ahead tell your imagined audience what tribe you are and how you are not Muslim and blinded by your fundamentalist biases and hatred of Jews now that you personally attack my opinions. Explain how you are not engaged

in tribalism and blinded by your hatred...finish it Bud...can you...isn't this what its all about Bud, you coming on this forum engaging in a pretext of criticizing Israel but soon lowering he debate to personal taunts against me for being Jewish a.k.a. tribalism...you want to engage in patronization with Hudson and Ghost and tell me what a good Jew is, i.e,, one that knows their place, i.e., not in a Jewish state?

You are going to lecture me or anyone else about equality when your entire raison d'etre on this post is to deny Jews self -determination? Really Bud-here you are an apologist for Muslim states that refuse to recognize any non Muslim as equals, do not think Jews should have a state but Muslims should and you want to lecture me or anyone else about equality and presume to speak for me? You-someone who has shown in each and every post you use a double standard that establishes Jews as not only inferior to Muslims but demons?

Lol. Bud do yourself a favour. Before you lecture anyone on equality look at yourself in the mirror and how you treat Jews on this forum. You want to accuse me of tribalism, Bud get out from behind the name and hold yourself as an equal just once and have the integrity to reveal your true tribal identity and explain how it has not made you bias before you throw such personal slurs against me.

Also do me a favour Bud, you want to portray yourself as a white man with Irish, Scottish, English and German ancestry, its been done...been there done that with "Hudson Jones". You see Bud the difference between us and I repeat it again is I do not hide what I am. I am proud of it. I do not shove it in anyone's face. I don't blow up innocent people, behead them, stone them, hate gays, consider women inferior, call people of other faiths infidel. I do not come on this forum and demonize Arabs or Palestinians. I simply defend my people's right to live in self determination, period. I also am not stupid enough to come on this board, engage people in bigoted taunts, and then try pass myself off as a boring white man thinking if I am boring and white it makes me without a tribe to ridicule. That's a lame tactic Bud, for "Hudson Jones" and its even lamer with you who uses the name "Bud" and has the audacity to taunt me for being a Jew while you won't reveal who you are.

Bud, The comments I make are in direct response to your comments such as the above, that lower you to nothing but a hater of Jews because they want to protect their identity from extinction. I do not lower myself to your level and never will. I have never and will never let your taunts cause me to hate Arabs or Muslims and it certainly is not going to incite any Muslim or Arab to hate me Bud.

Your tactics Bud to demonize me as you have Israelis, Zionists, any gentiles who support Israel has failed. You fail Bud because you also insult and belittle the very people you claim you represent.

At this point I am going to make it clear Bud-you think you speak for Muslims. You don't. You think you speak for Palestinians, you don't.

Your hatred is a product of what you choose to embrace in life.

You and 'Hudson" want to lecture me on WHAT A "good" Jew is, i.e., one that knows his place, i.e., statelessand without self determination I say it once-this tactic of presuming to tell me what makes a good and bad Jew is a figment of your hatred and bigotry.

You do not determine who is good or bad-no not you Bud, not "Hudson Jones" and certainly not Ghost. The three of you simply revealed how absurd your comments became in the name of criticizing Israeli state policies. You revealed it was in fact just a façade for trying to put Jews in our place and no I do not step and fetch it for you as much as you have been taught Jews are inferior and not allowed to have the same rights as you. No Bud-that dhimmitude system you were brought up to believe, its not going to happen again with my people. Never again will we submit to you are anyone else telling us who we are, where we will live and why we must die.

Bud never again.

Bud you want to lecture me on good Jews? Now let's just flip that idiotic stereotype around and put it to bed shall we? I know Muslims, many Muslims that do not hate me because I am Jewish or what a state for my people to protect us from extinction. They understand and respect that just as I respect their culture and religion and their desire to live in peace and dignity. Does that make them "good" Muslims? Should I use your ridiculous reasoning process and deem any Muslim who agrees with me as "good"? Lol. Sorry Bud, as much as I appreciate moderate Muslims who respect me as I do them, I do not presume to judge them or anyone else.

In my world in every human is good and bad and its not defined by me let alone defined according to whether I accept or reject such people. I do neither. I simply bare witness. You Bud have no clue the world I live in. It has no evil or good in nice neat categories. In my world good people are forced to kill and bad people may not kill because they have no other choice. In my world every human has the potential to kill indiscriminately and hate and they have to learn to overcome their primal behaviour patterns.

In my world Bud, people are born into identities. We did not choose them, we inherited them. If we run into people that understand that and respect that we do the same with them. If however we run into people who tell us it makes us inferior and we must know our place and must not exist as equals and presume to know about us, speak for us,

and then like you try portray hating us as a rational exercise, we stand up Bud and say-NEVER AGAIN.

There are thousands of Jews and Muslims like me-we respect each other, we respect our mutual right for peace and dignity and we know Christians, atheists, people of all kinds who feel the same way. You can not drown us out Bud. Use whatever taunts you want to try demonize me for being a Jew, misrepresent what I say all you want, presume to speak to me, presume to be able to lecture me on morality-engage in any tactic you want Bud..its not working.

Lol.

p.s. Bud your tribe? Remember? I have asked for it many times...on this forum when you insult me for being a Jew....want to keep ignoring me Bud? The silence reveals what it is now doesn't it.Lol. Wait don't tell me, let me guess, your last name is Abbot.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Rue

[bud]

all people should be treated equally. unfortunately, zionism doesn't believe in that. in order for zionism to achieve its goal, it is willing to violate other people's rights. in this case, the rights of palestinians and other minorities inside israel and also palestinians in the occupied territories.

this is why zionism and other selfish ideologies that violate human rights should be eradicated. much like nazism in germany was and apartheid in south africa was.

people who support inhumane ideologies such as zionism will continue to be confronted by those who want the best for our world.

[Rue]

Lol Bud, no reference to Sharia law, Islam and your tribe in your response as to what needs to be wiped out to make the world a wonderful place?

Lol.

More Bud.

[bud]

Lol Bud, no reference to Sharia law, Islam and your tribe in your response as to what needs to be wiped out to make the world a wonderful place?

Lol.

More Bud.

i'm disgusted by a lot of things i see in some of the muslim countries. including the discrimination against women, homosexuals and other religions. fortunately, our government and no one here on this forum tries to excuse those laws and customs.

unfortunately, our government and some people on this forum try to excuse and even justify the actions by israel and its discrimination against the palestinians.

i think it's time for you to abandon tribalism and speak out against what zionism has become and how israel discriminates against palestinians. i think deep down, you would rather be righteous and good. it's just the tribalism and false sense of nationality that is keeping you from changing for the better.

Edited November 23, 2013 by bud