Nuclear waste to be stored near Lake Huron

[GostHacked]

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/09/21/opp_quiz_opponents_to_lake_huron_nuclear_dump_prior_to_hearings_walkom.html

It's a bad idea to store nuclear waste near water period. But this tactic the cops are using to gather information about these groups is .. questionable?

When Beverley Fernandez came to her front door one day last week, she found two Ontario Provincial Police constables patiently waiting.

Fernandez, who opposes plans to bury nuclear waste on the Lake Huron shoreline near her Kincardine-area home, was scheduled to testify at an environmental assessment hearing into the scheme.

The officers had tracked her down. Now, they told her, they were there to help.

In particular, they wanted to help by knowing if her advocacy group, Stop the Great Lakes Nuclear Dump, was planning any demonstrations.

They told her that plenty of plain-clothed officers would be present at the hearings. They said they werent trying to stifle anyones free speech. And then, very politely, they left.

So the cops are watching the protest groups, but not very concerned about radioactive material being stored near their town.

Edited September 28, 2013 by GostHacked

[AlienB]

'Cops infiltrate protest groups all the time, in some cases they run them. You would be suprised how heavily the government has in the past set up 'undercover' operations.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/09/21/opp_quiz_opponents_to_lake_huron_nuclear_dump_prior_to_hearings_walkom.html

It's a bad idea to store nuclear waste near water period. But this tactic the cops are using to gather information about these groups is .. questionable?


So the cops are watching the protest groups, but not very concerned about radioactive material being stored near their town.

I find this funny because Bruce Nuclear is right there... storage on site seems to make sense, however, the stuff is definitely dangerous, I do wonder though, what they propose be done with it. Also nuclear plants are commonly right next to water and dump their hot water right into the lakes.

It would make sense to have the site a safe distance from the lake, but I think that perhaps it is planned so the water can be used to clean up the mess, as a nuclear fire can benefit from large amount of water. In the event of sabotage to pumping infrastructure, pumpers might be able to access lake water. None the less there are plenty of abandoned mines kicking around, maybe I am wrong with just dumping the stuff in some abandoned mine that is repurposed The other problem is transport though.. you want the storage facility as close as possible... makes sense perhaps to just build storage buildings right on the Bruce site as there is a bunch of forest surrounding the plants that could be redeveloped into storage sites.

none the less something has got to be done with it, and transporting the stuff is a risk.

The only thing you can do as a law abiding citizen is to completely ignore the police. Let them do their job. Feeding cops is just asking for trouble though, they at times do not just simply inform they are panning for grounds to exert control over the other party.

They aim to be in charge and control, and to insure that they keep people under their power. It is all repression, while it could be their job, the real problem comes into play when their tactics are unethical, or their objectives are unlawful because they aim to oppress law abiding individuals, or they aim to entrap or frame people into illegal actions. IE spook operations, panning for information, misapplication of the law to hurt other people they don't like, trying to get even with people for protecting their privacy etc..

unfortunately cops are made special and commonly infringe peoples privacy. All you can really do is put up a no trespassing sign on your property with no solicitation or government agents, police etc.. allowed in the notice, and press charges if they show up uninvited as well as deliver a prohibition notice to all policing agencies in your community.

Of course cops may just be jerks and ignore the notice, but if the courts ignore the trespass charges, and if they continue to show up.. and the harassment charges are ignored it just demonstrates corruption of justice, and the fact that the law is not respected by the justice system, it is just a private society of people who do what they want, and at times use the law to support some of their actions.

I've had cops simply refuse to leave my property before after notice, they pretty much ignore the law. While cops can be useful when they do their job, they don't always do it, and they have a prerogative to exercise their duties, that is they can refuse to press charges and instead force you to press charges.

In this event, what I would be wondering is, if plain clothes will be obstructing the protest, participating in it, or some other function, none the less, it may just be site security.

Having lots of people around can increase the notice it has, however if the plainsclothes engage people who show up at the protest to misdirect it, or to dissuade public participation it would be a governmental abuse, as it would in effect be a spook. \

However, the reasons for the plainsclothes is unknown... why are they there, is it security. they say they are protecting the protesters, why is there a risk to protesters in this situation? Who plans on endangering them?

sounds like investigative profiling and starting up the police file... for the intelligence banks.. anyone sketchy out there? etc.

protest = upset people

upset people + nuclear wastes = potential incident...

nuclear regulations were up until a few years back really lax, it is not entirely a bad thing to have investigation.. I would not be surprised if the entire organization is a front to get a list of antinuclear people in the area.

to say the least police showing up at someones door may not be the least of these people interactions right now, eg. taps either by local police or NSA/CIA etc.. but I really don't get the logic of taking of police officers time to protect the protesters, as there is no identified threat. Something doesn't seem right, if there is no threat, why are cops doing security detail .. it appears as faulty logic or a lie by police who have alternative purposes, which leads to the unethical conduct / misconduct issue mentioned above.

I don't know but that is the duck.

Perhaps the general public really isn't aware of the unethical conduct, but for myself it only adds to a further bad image of police who constantly lie and perform unethical conduct in the course of their job against law abiding individuals. It really is disturbing that this is just the norm of government. It is disturbing that Canadians choose to live in an unethical society run by dishonest people, then expect them to testify about crimes and events even though they are pathological, manipulative and otherwise straight face liers.

Now I don't know all the details here, but that is how it appears with the info provided, but I have to admit I don't have enough info to form a concrete opinion on this.

bear in mind I applaud the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission for being proactive in this matter, however the police potentially providing misinformation may have sullied this whole issue and sowed discord.. it should have been CSIS that showed up at their doors not the OPP.

Also in regard to lies, I really don't know but the two stories don't meet one another so there is misinformation in there somewhere.

I do not understand why the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission could not conduct its own investigation though.

As such i think without grounds for police involvement the request for police may have been an abuse, and form of harassment without lawful grounds which would make the comission and municipalities conducting themselves unlawfully, and infringing individauls charter rights. thus a lawsuit against the commission may be applicable for charter breaches.7

of but right the comission is beyond the law "18. (1) No civil proceedings may be brought against any member or other person or authority acting on behalf or under the direction of the Commission for anything done, reported or said in good faith in the course of the exercise or performance or purported exercise or performance of any power, duty or function of the Commission under this Act or for any alleged neglect or default in the execution in good faith of any such power, duty or function"

thus they have to sue the queen on this one. however is lying to the public a good faith activity?

In this regard it may be integrated national security task force as opposed to an opp action... but no clue.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/N-28.3/

The OPG statement needs to be looked into more...to verify the basis of those statements

The only thing I can see as possible here under the law is that the comission is informally investigating...? but it does seem to mesh as per

Assistance of peace officers

(7) A peace officer shall provide such assistance as the Commission or a member of the Commission may request for the purpose of maintaining order during proceedings before the Commission.

bear in mind also the absence of notice of any such court order on the matter?????????

Enforcement of orders of the Commission

(8) Any decision or order of the Commission may, for the purpose of enforcement, be made a rule, order or decree of the Federal Court or of a superior court of a province and may be enforced in like manner as a rule, order or decree of that court.

However this simply does not make sense.

note also though

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/09/22/opp_quizzing_us_witnesses_too_at_lake_huron_nuclear_waste_hearing_walkom.html

notice the

"organizations like Greenpeace might demonstrate and that police didn’t want any fatalities"

this would be either a fear tactic or raising the fact that if protests happen at or near a nuclear facility deadly force may be used.

This may thus go back to the plainsclothes protecting the protesters from nuclear safety people who are armed with submachine guns--- and may not even be Canadian... with availability of use of lethal force.

none the less I'm not 100% sure but the police maybe could just come right out and explain that if a protest happens near a facility cards would fall in place to disperse the protest, and resistance might produce use of deadly force due to national security interests.

but this seems like an odd scenario and also very cryptic which leaves a lot to be determined.

I think the liason team needs to be looked at more to see if they are putting misinformation or creating fear in the public which would be raising public alarm and potentially threats which would be criminal acts. I simply don't know but it leaves a lot to be wondered as the whole story simply isn't being released by police and a press release on this matter with full disclosure might be useful.

Introducing the concept of use of deady force in regard to protests is not just a statement you should drop I think that needs to be fully explained and the risks really ought to be explained, such as by saying in what circumstances might protesters expect use of deadly force. These are not armed protesters so the use of deadly force really needs to be explained.

It is also important to note that US senators are involved in this,, which may inclusively add the FBI and SS to the list of interested agencies. I really don't know though.

Michigan Senate Resolution 58

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/general-news/20130524/michigan-senate-passes-resolution-against-canadian-nuclear-waste-dumping-near-lake-huron

imo

The site makes sense for various reasons, but no it isn't safe, but it is probably as safe as bruce nuclear itself..

these groups need to provide an alternative that is doable. otherwise saying storing nuclear wastes is unsafe or nuclear power is unsafe is an obvious statement but the wastes exist. What is the alternative?

To me storing them deep underground is better than storing them above ground at the bruce site like they are now.. and have been for years.

people need to understand this is an improvement.

"Ontario Power Generation operates the Western Waste Management Facility in Tiverton, Ontario, next to the Bruce station. The facility stores all of the low- and intermediate-level nuclear waste from Bruce's eight reactors; the four reactors at the Darlington station, 20 miles east of Toronto; and the six reactors at the Pickering station, just east of Toronto."

An alternative site needs to be proposed, and note limestone is much easier to dig through than granite.

Edited September 28, 2013 by AlienB

[GostHacked]

Good points AlienB. A couple words 'agent provocateurs' !!!

[Shady]

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/09/21/opp_quiz_opponents_to_lake_huron_nuclear_dump_prior_to_hearings_walkom.html

It's a bad idea to store nuclear waste near water period. But this tactic the cops are using to gather information about these groups is .. questionable?

So the cops are watching the protest groups, but not very concerned about radioactive material being stored near their town.

It's not the cops job to approve or disapprove of nuclear material storage. Are you unaware of that?

[jacee]

Good points AlienB. A couple words 'agent provocateurs' !!!

Smells like the RCMP intimidation of G20 activists all over again:

http://toronto.mediacoop.ca/story/3286

Edited September 29, 2013 by jacee

[GostHacked]

Smells like the RCMP intimidation of activists all over again:

http://toronto.mediacoop.ca/story/3286

That is what it looks like to me. The police do not work for us.

[jacee]

That is what it looks like to me. The police do not work for us.

Oh yes they do!

They start thinking they work for corporations.

We have to keep reminding them who pays them.

[Shady]

That is what it looks like to me. The police do not work for us.

You're being obtuse. The police enforce current laws within their jurisdiction. Deciding where to store sai material, and whether or not it's a good idea isn't part of whys they do. Sounds like you're advocating some kind of police state. Count me out.

[jacee]

You're being obtuse. The police enforce current laws within their jurisdiction. Deciding where to store sai material, and whether or not it's a good idea isn't part of whys they do. Sounds like you're advocating some kind of police state. Count me out.

Apparently police think it is their job to try to intimidate people opposed to burying nuclear waste there.

So it looks like police have decided it should go there and they are working for 'the company' to suppress protest by people who actually do pay their salaries.

Hard to fathom how intimidating people in their own homes (if they even think about protesting) fulfills the police's first duty to uphold constitutional rights.

Really quite bizarre!

[GostHacked]

You're being obtuse. The police enforce current laws within their jurisdiction. Deciding where to store sai material, and whether or not it's a good idea isn't part of whys they do. Sounds like you're advocating some kind of police state. Count me out.

I think you are familiar with my posts on a police state. So you know I do not advocate for a police state. You're being misleading.

But scoping out opponents and going door to door is a little beyond regular police work. They don't work for you or me Shady, they work for the state and the corps that run it.

[dre]

Apparently police think it is their job to try to intimidate people opposed to burying nuclear waste there.

So it looks like police have decided it should go there and they are working for 'the company' to suppress protest by people who actually do pay their salaries.

Hard to fathom how intimidating people in their own homes (if they even think about protesting) fulfills the police's first duty to uphold constitutional rights.

Really quite bizarre!

Sure but at the end of the day the governments security apparatus is just a tool to apply force. Why NOT use it to push a political agenda, if the people are dumb enough to let you?