Refugee status accepted on Chinese birth restrictions!

[Guest Peeves]

I sent today.

Minister Jason Kenney. Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism.

Mr. J. Kenney
A decision to accept a Chinese refugee claimant because of China's one child policy is ridiculous on it's own, but to do so for someone with no children is preposterous.
I'm infuriated! What's next, allowing a refugee claim from Indonesia because you may get arrested for spitting in the street!
Please rein in this incompetent bureaucracy.

I cannot believe the extent to which our Immigration has broadened qualifications.

She's currently childless for god's sake.

http://www.newswhip.com/MoreInfo/Childless-Chinese-woman-granted-Canadian/57095040

[The_Squid]

Your points get lost...

Your poorly written missive is likely in the trash... exclamation points! Poor punctuation... Spelling mistakes.... It looks like it was written by a refugee with English issues...

[Guest American Woman]

Your points get lost...

Your poorly written missive is likely in the trash... exclamation points! Poor punctuation... Spelling mistakes.... It looks like it was written by a refugee with English issues...

What if it a letter were written by a refugee with English issues? Would that mean the government should give it less consideration in your opinion?

[Guest American Woman]

I sent today.

I cannot believe the extent to which our Immigration has broadened qualifications.

She's currently childless for god's sake.

http://www.newswhip.com/MoreInfo/Childless-Chinese-woman-granted-Canadian/57095040

If Canada is going to give refugee status to every Chinese person wanting more children than the Chinese government allows, considering the population of China, Canada could soon become overrun with Chinese refugees.

The Federal Court has upheld a decision to grant refugee status to a Chinese woman simply because she opposes her country’s one-child policy and its harsh enforcement — even though she had yet to have any children.

That's pretty extreme, IMO.

Edited June 21, 2013 by American Woman

[guyser]

Hmm...the court listed the reasons why this was granted , but it appears no one wants to consider her reasons as somewhat valid.

She would be forced to wear an IUD , forced to undergo pregnancy tests.

She was pregnant at the time of application.

She witnessed her husbands Mother Aunt and Cousin be forcible sterilized.

She witnessed her Mother and Aunts get the same.

All in all, the court did right. It is refugee status she applied under so the floodgates wont open presumably.

[Guest American Woman]

Hmm...the court listed the reasons why this was granted , but it appears no one wants to consider her reasons as somewhat valid.

Who's this "no one" you speak of? How would the reasons not be valid and not apply to every woman in China? - which was the point being made.

[guyser]

Who's this "no one" you speak of?

Anyone who replied or posted save for Squid.

How would the reasons not be valid and not apply to every woman in China? - which was the point being made.

Not every woman in China will want to come here and claim refugee status for one.

Whole swaths of woman who may want to come will not be able to afford it for two

Any woman over the age of 40 would likely be refused for three

The overwhelming vast majority of all woman in China will not leave their home country and will suck it up and live with China rules for four.

The CDN govt expanded the refugee programme because they believe in it for five.

We take in approx 22,000 refugees/persecuted persons each year so no real biggie for six.

Six good reasons, should be enough.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Guyser2

[Guest American Woman]

Anyone who replied or posted save for Squid.

That tells me what I need to know ....

[Guest Peeves]

Your points get lost...

Your poorly written missive is likely in the trash... exclamation points! Poor punctuation... Spelling mistakes.... It looks like it was written by a refugee with English issues...

Dear Squint. sorry squib damn spell check...Squid

Please be so kind as to correct the spelling, improve syntax or content to make my point and post it for my edification.

Thank you.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Peeves

[Guest Peeves]

What if it a letter were written by a refugee with English issues? Would that mean the government should give it less consideration in your opinion?

I have a pretty close relationship with Kenny and get correspondence from him fairly regularly. He actually seems to consider my opinion(s).

Please excuse my spelling and grammar, I lack The Squids obviously extensive c.v. and intellect. Perhaps he failed to have the cognitive ability to comprehend my singularly simple point..

We must pity the less gifted.

[Guest American Woman]

I have a pretty close relationship with Kenny and get correspondence from him fairly regularly. He actually seems to consider my opinion(s).

Please excuse my spelling and grammar, I lack The Squids obviously extensive c.v. and intellect. Perhaps he failed to have the cognitive ability to comprehend my singularly simple point..

We must pity the less gifted.

I just thought it was odd that he insinuated that the opinion of a refugee who has problems with English is going to end up in the trash because of it, the implication being only opinions expressed in perfect English are worthy of consideration.

[AlienB]

how many women are there in china?

what is 1.48 x 47.7%

probably well over 500 million... I'm a little confused here did Canada just say any woman from China who isn't allowed to have children can get refugee status in Canada?

wow.

what about men who arn't allowed to impregnate women?

Edited June 22, 2013 by AlienB

[Guest Peeves]

how many women are there in china?

what is 1.48 x 47.7%

probably well over 500 million... I'm a little confused here did Canada just say any woman from China who isn't allowed to have children can get refugee status in Canada?

wow.

what about men who arn't allowed to impregnate women?

It is implied isn't it. A sorry state when the meaning of refugee has been extended to such criteria as this.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Peeves

[Guest Peeves]

Please honor my request. Thank you. I checked the spelling again,I can't find the errors. I so value your opinion in this matter as I'm embarrassed that I sent such a poorly explained missive to an M.P.

.Squid

Please be so kind as to correct the spelling, improve syntax or content to make my point and post it for my edification.

Thank you.

[The_Squid]

Please honor my request. Thank you. I checked the spelling again,I can't find the errors. I so value your opinion in this matter as I'm embarrassed that I sent such a poorly explained missive to an M.P.

It's reign, not rein.

[Argus]

Not every woman in China will want to come here and claim refugee status for one.

Whole swaths of woman who may want to come will not be able to afford it for two

Any woman over the age of 40 would likely be refused for three

You are missing the point. If this holds up then basically any young woman in China is eligible for Canadian citizenship. All she has to do is come here and demand her passport. Further, women are discriminated against in Muslim countries. Given this standard, any woman in a Muslim country can come here and get citizenship. And why stop there? Any homosexual in a third world country, or in countries like Russia, can also come here under such a loose, broad standard, and demand a passport.

None of them require any job skills, of course.

Now perhaps you're one of those open door people who thinks we should let anyone in who wants to come, but if so you surely know you're in the distinct minority. These sorts of cases are the ones which turn Canadians against the refugee system and make them demand crackdowns which will inevitably stop real refugees from coming here.

[AlienB]

It is implied isn't it. A sorry state when the meaning of refugee has been extended to such criteria as this.

on the contrary the morality of it is shocking. I support it, all be it, I think that citizenship laws may need to be amended.

and we need to insure there is work so there is food so they should be ready to work too.

It just isn't realistic without forcing them to work. and we ought limit it to women who have not gone into menopause and really do want children.

and we may need to insure there are settlement locations available. but lo it seems she is only one of 500 million women in china that want to flee china over this.

we needn't go back to the days of the chinese head tax. none the less it seems it is just one case.. so if there were many then follow up may be needed to prevent canada turning into a communist state run by the chinese, women.

Canadian men might feel overwhelmed as a result of any mass immigration.

Edited June 23, 2013 by AlienB

[Signals.Cpl]

and we may need to insure there are settlement locations available. but lo it seems she is only one of 500 million women in china that want to flee china over this.

She is the first of many if this stands the way it is. Even if half a % of Chinese women demanded refugee status for the same reason we would be overwhelmed, which would without a doubt change our demographics in a negative way while also making China's shortage of women that much worse while at the same time taking Refugee status from people who actually fit the bill as a refugee.

[AlienB]

She is the first of many if this stands the way it is. Even if half a % of Chinese women demanded refugee status for the same reason we would be overwhelmed, which would without a doubt change our demographics in a negative way while also making China's shortage of women that much worse while at the same time taking Refugee status from people who actually fit the bill as a refugee.

We'll I'm not sure I understand your position, there are a lot of untapped resources in Canada, it would just present an oppourtunity to tune up the refugee system in Canada. Also there is no women shortage in China. There are too many people in China and it will take a few more decades to remove that. China has come a long way and has even started to allow more than one child in specific areas to insure there will be enough people to care for the current elderly. I do think forced sterilization, in Canada, is a bygone concept that was put to sleep for good reasons. Although I do support optional sterilization for sexual predators as a means to allow them release back into society if their crime is due to physiology, China and other overpopulated areas could resolve their issues by population mobility. IMO canada can support a much larger immigrant population, about 3% annually, if tied into the growth rate, based on availability of basic goods, matched with refugee programs to produce basic goods.

However yes I realize that this will mean less work for Canadians but Canada for its size is immensely underpopulated, the problem is government is incapable of managing any real programs other than paper pushing and seat sitting these days, it is a long time since colonization and the founding of canadas communities a few centuries ago. The government really can't manage anything these days they are only good for insulting people with different opinions on who to give the stolen money to.

Personally i don't think it is likely. I don't think they will, although some might I don't think it will come anywhere close to even a few thousand people. IMO even if more should. Safer than Syrian refugees can't claim Canada ain't doing its part.

It is a delicate issue for sure. IMO we should be pushing for open borders, and well managed way that opens the borders to the highest bidders up to the growth rate. While setting a quota for refugees and sponsered immigrants. based on the ability for programs to support them without cost to the tax payers.

Edited June 23, 2013 by AlienB

[WWWTT]

She is the first of many if this stands the way it is. Even if half a % of Chinese women demanded refugee status for the same reason we would be overwhelmed, which would without a doubt change our demographics in a negative way while also making China's shortage of women that much worse while at the same time taking Refugee status from people who actually fit the bill as a refugee.

Have you been to China?

Many people there do not care to come to Canada.

From the scores of people I know in China,non would re locate here.Maybe only a couple under the right conditions.

WWWTT

[Signals.Cpl]

We'll I'm not sure I understand your position, there are a lot of untapped resources in Canada, it would just present an oppourtunity to tune up the refugee system in Canada.

What do Canada's untapped resources have to do with refugee status? The Refugee system was not intended to provide safe haven for anyone and everyone in the world who disagrees with the policies of their nation, it was intended to provide safe haven for those who were persecuted and under threat of death, serious injury, torture or other similar punishments. For every person who is granted unnecessary refugee status someone who is actually in need is denied and potentially sent to their death. We as a nation can help only so many people, lets make sure that we help the right once rather than protect those who require no protection and turn away those who desperately need our protection.

Also there is no women shortage in China. There are too many people in China and it will take a few more decades to remove that.

If you would look at the CIA world Fact book you might just notice that there is in-fact a gap between male and females in China.

Between the ages of 0-14 males outnumber females by over 18million people.

Between the ages of 15-24 males outnumber females by over 11million people.

Between the ages of 25-54 males outnumber females by over 14million people.

Only above the ages of 54 do the demographics for the sexes balance out somewhat.

So to sum up my point, in the age groups that start to or will within the next 10-20 years form relationships, marry and have children there are already some 43million men more than women so there is a shortage...

China has come a long way and has even started to allow more than one child in specific areas to insure there will be enough people to care for the current elderly. I do think forced sterilization, in Canada, is a bygone concept that was put to sleep for good reasons.

Because we are already facing a problem with our aging population...

Although I do support optional sterilization for sexual predators as a means to allow them release back into society if their crime is due to physiology, China and other overpopulated areas could resolve their issues by population mobility.

You mean by moving their population to other nations? And if those nations don't want them? Invade?

IMO canada can support a much larger immigrant population, about 3% annually, if tied into the growth rate, based on availability of basic goods, matched with refugee programs to produce basic goods.

Canada as a nation has an obligation to its citizens and the immigrants it brings in to be able to support those immigrants through help with integrate in to Canadian society and availability of jobs. Introducing more people in to the workforce than our ability to create jobs just means we will increase the demand on services while no increase of productivity from the immigrants brought in, not because they chose so but because more immigrants were allowed in to Canada than the nation can integrate.

However yes I realize that this will mean less work for Canadians but Canada for its size is immensely underpopulated, the problem is government is incapable of managing any real programs other than paper pushing and seat sitting these days, it is a long time since colonization and the founding of canadas communities a few centuries ago.

If we have a problem with unemployment as it is, do we REALLY need to introduce more unemployed people who will even unwillingly rely on the system for support?

It is a delicate issue for sure. IMO we should be pushing for open borders, and well managed way that opens the borders to the highest bidders up to the growth rate.

Sorry don't get this, are you suggesting we open our borders to only those who can afford it? Thats great, exactly what we need, the criminals from other nations bringing their loot over to Canada along with their criminal enterprises.

[Signals.Cpl]

Have you been to China?

Many people there do not care to come to Canada.

From the scores of people I know in China,non would re locate here.Maybe only a couple under the right conditions.

WWWTT

No, but from what my sister has told me there are plenty of people in China who are hoping to move to Canada or the US someday. Seeing as she lived and worked there for a number of years I tend to believe her much more than the "scores of people you may or may not know".

Besides many is a relative term, to you 10 might be many but is most definitely not representative of the more than a billion people in that country, or many of those financially well off, or those in power might not want to leave either. Even if we were to assume that "many" in this case represents 99.9% of the Chinese population, which by the way I highly doubt, we are still left with a dramatic increase that we may or may not be able to sustain while also destabilizing our demographics and political system all at once.

[WWWTT]

Yes of course there are many people there who want to move here.

My wife is Chinese,and believe me,not as many people there want to move overseas as say 10 yrs ago.

I feel that this woman's claim is legit and seeing how tight immigration is,many here are worrying over nothing.

WWWTT

[Guest American Woman]

No, but from what my sister has told me there are plenty of people in China who are hoping to move to Canada or the US someday. Seeing as she lived and worked there for a number of years I tend to believe her much more than the "scores of people you may or may not know".

There is definitely a large number of Chinese who would hope to move here. Many educated Chinese realize the opportunities available here that are not available in China - and they hope for a better future for their children, especially daughters, too. There are Chinese citizens who are well off in China and still prefer to live in Canada/the U.S.

The "one child policy" is not as strictly enforced as many in our countries may think it is. The policy was explained when I was in China - rural areas are allowed another child if the first is a girl; in some instances there is a fine for having more than one child, so if people can afford to pay the fine, they get away with having more; and many have more and can't afford the fine and the penalty is that these children do not get, in effect, a card recognizing their birth which means they will not be able to get employment in the city - so they will remain farmers/rural workers unless/until that changes. Chinese families do not all consist of only one child.

But the bottom line is this - if disagreement with the one child policy is going to give Chinese refugee status in Canada, that is going to open the door for a lot of Chinese to come to Canada who otherwise would not be able to qualify for immigration. It's a very real possibility.

Edited June 23, 2013 by American Woman

[Guest Peeves]

on the contrary the morality of it is shocking. I support it, all be it, I think that citizenship laws may need to be amended.

and we need to insure there is work so there is food so they should be ready to work too.

It just isn't realistic without forcing them to work. and we ought limit it to women who have not gone into menopause and really do want children.

and we may need to insure there are settlement locations available. but lo it seems she is only one of 500 million women in china that want to flee china over this.

we needn't go back to the days of the chinese head tax. none the less it seems it is just one case.. so if there were many then follow up may be needed to prevent canada turning into a communist state run by the chinese, women.

Canadian men might feel overwhelmed as a result of any mass immigration.

That's it in a nut shell. The nut shell of course is the Immigration Board that seem to be in a different world, one that owes the world it's benefits.

There have to be reasonable limits. If a Saudi woman can't drive a car alone, if a second wife in a Muslim country is less favored, if a caste system in India relegates some to lesser status, those examples and more are of course restrictions imposed by the culture, but, we can't be obliged to rectify them by unreasonable redress.