The biggest thing missed on Healthcare

[wm009]

During the election we had 3 main parties with their solution to health care. The liberals wanted to fork out federal funds, the conservatives wanted to fork out federal funds and the ndp wanted to fork out federal funds.

The thing is, that's unconstitutional. Why doesn't the federal government but out and let the provincial governments do their job?

[Slavik44]

During the election we had 3 main parties with their solution to health care. The liberals wanted to fork out federal funds, the conservatives wanted to fork out federal funds and the ndp wanted to fork out federal funds.

The thing is, that's unconstitutional. Why doesn't the federal government but out and let the provincial governments do their job?

So what you mean is, you ahve taken much tiem and seen the results of Martin as finance minster who cut federal spending..and you noticted how much better health care is, so it woudl jsut be best if we cut the rest of the funding, and forced provinces to cover 100% of the cost?

[Big Blue Machine]

The federal government can't cut the rest of the funding to health care fro the provinces. The burden would be too much. They would have to raise taxes alot to pay for the health care spending. The federal governemtn should pay at least 25% of the health care costs for the provinces.

[August1991]

The federal government can't cut the rest of the funding to health care fro the provinces. The burden would be too much.

Presumably, the feds would concede tax points to the provinces so that citizens would pay the same taxes but the money would go to the province, not the feds.

But the problem is that some provinces wouldn't get enough revenue from their own taxpayers. (I have read that 50% of Quebecers pay no income tax at all. I suspect the percentage is higher in the Maritimes.)

Hence, this federal "largesse" is another form of equalization. This ultimately makes a mess of jurisdictional responsibility and voters do not know who to blame if something goes wrong.

[wm009]

forced provinces to cover 100% of the cost?

Well, exactly. Now the federal government doesn't have to collect endless amounts of tax, and the provincial governments can run healthcare. Ofcourse the provinces will raise taxes because they simply can't tax enough from the people. The federal government is taking so much, and if the provinces asked for enough to fund health care, there people would simply have nothing left.

[caesar]

The provincial governments should get out of the healthcare business and turn it over to the federal government so all Canadians get the same coverage.

It should be cheaper with less replication of services in each province. It is referred to as "national" healthcare. Stop the games where healthcare is used as a lever to pry more cash out of the federal government. Healthcare is the provincial / terrirtotial governments best tool to use to pry more money out of the feds with large public support. There is no incentive for the smaller governments to deliver efficient healthcare as then they lose their leverage for obtaining more money. That is why they wanted the cash but not the strings attached to how it is used.

[wm009]

You need to decentralize government, not centralize it. You do recall how Hitler became so powerful? Why don't we just let Paul Martin's cabinate run the country? Maybe the federal government can send us our groceries too.

It's a lot easier to track down your premier and tell him what you think of his medical care plan, than tracking down Paul Martin. Let the Federal government protect the rights of Canadians, and allow the provinces to do their job.

[playfullfellow]

Ceasar, your theory sounds good but does Ottawa listen to us now? Will they ever listen to us? As for duplication of services, exactly what do you mean, service level or bearucratic level? If you mean service level, then under your proposal, all the best surgical and diagnostic services would be in Ontario, gotta buy more votes you know. The rest of us would have to travel there or the US to get those services. We will never get rid of the beaurucratic level because everyone is scared crapless of laying off government workers. At least under the current system, you would have better access to the politicians and let them know what you want. Right now, Ottawa doesn't give a flying fig about the west, BC included, it is after the election again.

[Guest eureka]

Just imagine, though. If you had to travel to Ontario, you would be able to experience civilization and culture along with the treatments. The lift to your spirits might be almost as beneficial to your health as the healthcare.

Caesar, of course, is right. Sadly, we will never be able to get through the Constitutional requirements. Our provincial potentates will never let go even the smallest degree of their power.

[playfullfellow]

I have been to Ontario, twice in fact. Not a bad place, too many people though. The skies were always grey, polution I figure. The people were friendly enough but always in a hurry. I can't afford to go to Ontario now let alone if I was sick and maybe out of work.

Right now, Ottawa can't figure out what each province needs so how the heck woud they run healthcare for each region. Look at it this way, in Alberta we deal a lot more with industrial accidents because of the patch and agriculture, this means we would deal a lot more with limb loss than BC or Ontario. Ontario with probably deal a lot more with chemical type problems or enviromental afflictions. BC needs their funny bone replaced, they would need special surgery for that.

Each province should deal with their own health care. At least they are closer to the people and know what to do.

[caesar]

? As for duplication of services, exactly what do you mean, service level or bearucratic level

It is the bureaucratic bs patronage jobs that bother me. More jobs overpaid for their political appointees. Appointed for their party loyalty rather than their expertise.

Each province should deal with their own health care. At least they are closer to the people and know what to do.

The doctors wherever can deal with that not provincial politicians!!!! I am sure that the specialists will go where they are most needed.

[caesar]

Just imagine, though. If you had to travel to Ontario, you would be able to experience civilization and culture along with the

Thanks, Eureka but I think we are very civillized out here in BC.

[Big Blue Machine]

We can't give all health care to the federal government either. They are too big for local issues with health care, like say family doctors.

The federal government should just pay up the money, and let the provinces do what they want with health care.

Just don't get sick in one of the provinces with privite care.

[caesar]

Nope; I am all for a stronger central government. Some provincial governments like in BC are unstable and we do the yo yo every election. It has become a bargaining ploy for the Provincial government to sqeeze more money from the feds. There is no incentive to have it running smoothly and efficiently if they lose their bargaining ploy.

Why do you think the premiers wanted no strings attached. If we stop this wrangling between levels of government; perhaps they will get down to the business of organizing healthcare so that it will run smoothly and efficiently. Quit wasting time fighting over money.

[Big Blue Machine]

It won't happen, the federal govenrment will never take over all of health care. Plus, taking health care away from the provinces would be taking away a right from them. They are the ones who supply health care, not the feds.

[caesar]

They are not supplying it the doctors are quite capable of doing that themselves. They just pay for it and have a bunch of patronage appointees taking over pay for little knowledge.

The provinces are losing the right to those rights by messing it up. We have been paying more premiums and getting less service and as a senior we are paying an extra 1100 dollars for prescriptions. If you need to work you have to pay the private clinics for your already paid for health care.

[playfullfellow]

The provinces are losing the right to those rights by messing it up. We have been paying more premiums and getting less service and as a senior we are paying an extra 1100 dollars for prescriptions.

Is this not because the Feds cut transfer payments to begin with a few years ago? Does the Federal government not impose rules and standards that the Provinces have to ruh their healthcare by but the feds don't necessarily pay enough to keep this level of care up? I don't necessarily disagree with cutbacks. The system was/is flawed and needs to be fixed. Healthcare is one of the things that the feds can dangle a carrot in front of the provinces with. It can also be the albatross for provinces. We all know the system is screwed up and is in such a beaurucratic mess that it is almost impossible to clean up. First the Feds pay around 50% of healthcare costs. Then we are told we have to tighten our belts because the country is in a financial mess. The feds drop their share to less than 20% but still impose what level of healthcare is acceptable. When this is not possible, then they turn around and blame the provinces for the mess. Now the Romanov report suggests the feds pay around 25%. The feds say fine, no prob but we want full control of how it is spent. This way they can always blame the provinces again if things dont work out, they will just say that the provinces didn't do as they were told as their always seems to be some standards that are impossible to meet.

Look at Alberta, they accepted the cutbacks with a grain of salt. They cut back the beaurucracies, elliminated a lot of the pork barrel jobs, ammalgamated health regions and cut back on the services the system woud not pay for. Yeah, it hurts at first, the doctors and nurses cried saying that people were suffering, waiting times went through the roof but the system was working as well as could be expected with what we had. The fight really started when Alberta wanted to privatize some non-essential services. The feds said whoa there, you can't do that or we will cut the rest of the money we give to you. Alberta finally had to relent and back off privatizing some services. We still pick up the extras that the feds dont pay for out of our own pockets. It amounts to around a 1000 bucks a year for a family of 4. Centralizing of services is what has put us in the mess we are in right now. Ottawa dictates the level of service each province has to supply but pays less than 20% of the cost. Letting Ottawa have complete control would not eliminate the problem, they would just use it to buy more votes in friendlier regions.

[Guest eureka]

Actually, the feds did nit dictate levels of services. The provinces have had pretty much a free reign. The Canada Health Act had no teeth other than the public airing of provincial misdeeds.

Funding was cut to the provinces initially because the provinces wanted a block transfer to replace the dedicated amounts. The provinces miscalculated in their greed. The feds should have been paying more, but would they given that the provinces were using the money as they wished and not necessarily for healthcare.

It seems to me that the agreement now reached is giving us more of the same: more money for still no real accountability by the provinces.

I am in complete agreement with the ida that health should go to the federal jurisdiction. Then, we would know how much ,omey is going to health and what we get for it. We would also know who to throw out if proper services are not delivered.

That's wishfull thinking, though. No provincial political leader will let go an item of power. The good of the country is nothing compared to provincial egos.

[playfullfellow]

Then, we would know how much ,omey is going to health and what we get for it. We would also know who to throw out if proper services are not delivered.

Uh huh, the feds are really open with their books and spending now. If the feds were in control, you would see all the best go to Ontario and Quebec while the ROC can suck eggs. At least under the current system, each province can decide what is best for them instead of some desk jockey who lives 2000 miles away.

[Big Blue Machine]

To fight the lost of doctors in the country, I think the pronvicial government should pay all tuition fees for anyone who taking medical/health courses.