Vancouver Coast Guard station closes

[Wilber]

Like a deadbeat dodging their creditors, they snuck out of town without telling anyone on the day the Provincial budget came down. What a class act.

[Peanutbutter]

Do you have any link to a story or anything of substance so we can discuss this?

[Guest American Woman]

Do you have any link to a story or anything of substance so we can discuss this?

This looks like a good source:

“Every B.C. political party, every nautical group, everyone who understands the dangers in these waters has said, ‘do not close the Kitsilano Coast Guard Station’ – and the federal Conservative government and its B.C. MPs have completely disregarded all the evidence that this is a deadly mistake,” Irene Lanzinger, secretary-treasurer of the B.C. Federation of Labour said Tuesday in a statement. “To do this on B.C. budget day shows that lack of respect knows no bounds.”

Vigil marks closing of Kitsilano Coast Guard base

[Wilber]

http://threesheetsnw.com/blog/2013/02/federal-government-closes-vancouvers-kitsilano-coast-guard-station/

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/politics/archives/2013/02/20130219-213028.html

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2013/02/19/kits-coast-guard-station-closes

[Peanutbutter]

American Woman, the OP only posted one sentence which doesn't really constitute a worthwhile post. Thanks for posting an article, I'll read it now. First I've heard about this.

[Wilber]

American Woman, the OP only posted one sentence which doesn't really constitute a worthwhile post. Thanks for posting an article, I'll read it now. First I've heard about this.

Sorry about that . I meant to add a link posted first by mistake.

[guyser]

Like a deadbeat dodging their creditors, they snuck out of town without telling anyone on the day the Provincial budget came down. What a class act.

What a bunch of morons in Ottawa. No deadline, no advance notice apart from 'sometime' and now letting volunteers do it.

[Peanutbutter]

Hrm, I think that the province will know best is terms of what it needs for search and rescue etc. I'm not sure what level of discussion was made. I think the province and the federal government should've been in meetings together if they weren't.

There is another base that is only 17 miles away and that seems rather close but I am no expert in this field and I doubt any people here are either.

Seems like lots of inflammatory language on the anti closure side and that doesn't help anything. $700,000 a year to keep the base open doesn't seem like much to me. Will the next closest base in Richmond not work just as well?

[shortlived]

Since rescue will probably be by helicopter anyway, 40km isn't that much. People should realize they capsize in the ocean they are probably dead if they don't have a lifeboat. A helicopter flying at 200km/h though works out to about10minutes additional reponse time? How many people have died? Out there? How many people have survived due to that station? If there is such a demand why don't local marinas pick up the emergency. In a high traffic area, there should be boats available to respond to a pan or sos.

The coast guard should be rolled into the CF and RCMP anyway. that is a public security and emergency service agency.

Never exceed speeds on the comorants are 309 km/h

Although in reality even if staff arn't there they could still base a team there. If required. The facilities that is infrastructure is still there, so it can still be used, it just won't be maintained. Ultimately this will likely be a sell off but conditions of sale should be that there are boats or helicopters operating there that can respond in event of an emergency call going out.

This is why private militias should be supported, because they can both fill a public need and infrastructure doesn't go to solely private interests.

Obviously though something needs to be in place to field those 1 call a day needs. that is what $2000/day / call?

what is that like $100 extra per year on marina fees to cover a SAR facility?

Are boaters and shippers willing to put up an extra $100 on port and marina fees a year to cover a coast gaurd station that is next to like a yatch club and a marina?

an emergency call is suppose to be answered by everyone ... not just the coast gaurd.. the location is nonsense.

There are also ferry services operating. Due to the density of traffic I would think a boat would be available to lend aid.

I think that for a private / public rescue service to raise funds from those people who use the service is much wiser in terms of peoples needs such as marinas using it and claiming the write off as a business expense. Or port operators writting it down as a shipping service. I strongly believe private individuals should insure their own safety. The government should be there to maintain order and lawfulness.

The government needs to operate merchant marine service on ships that can be modified for military use if required. But the merchant part means that they should be maintained from service fees, such as subscription charges. Covered by port fees, and facilities access. Example turning the station into a "rental marina" with people having access to showers, washroom, internet, etc... as well as limiting on shore boarding and other such goods, while a staff person and ski or other equipment could still be kept on site.

This shouldn't be about eliminating costs, it should be about leveraging infrastructure to generate government income from sources other than taxes, while maintaining the ability to perform support roles in event of emergency.

Yes this is right up there with operating police jails and closed bases as day rental shelters and camp grounds.

Edited February 21, 2013 by shortlived

[Wilber]

What a bunch of morons in Ottawa. No deadline, no advance notice apart from 'sometime' and now letting volunteers do it.

During my piloting days, if a facility was due to be closed or even scheduled to be out of order for a certain period, the exact date and time would be announced well in advance so everyone would be aware of the situation and could plan accordingly. Apparently this government no longer operates that way. The way this was done showed no regard for public safety. Aviators and mariners take note. Slimy politics come first.

[Peanutbutter]

It may be worthwhile to instead of quickly screaming over burnt toast to trey to understand the reasons for the closure. Some people like to presume that some sort of conspiracy is at work whenever the Harper government does anything. Sometimes the government is just doing what it's supposed to do. Not every decision is some sort of scandal.

[Wilber]

No some of them are just stupid and vindictive.

Not enough money for a coast guard station in the country's busiest harbor but six times as much for a department of religeous freedom on the same day as it is shut down.

[Guest Derek L]

Kitts beach closes, and the sole (older) rescue boat and crew will be amalgamated, ~15-20 nautical miles away at the Sea Island station (by the Airport) that already has a high speed hovercraft, that’s underutilized in the restrictive Fraser River……….Now the older Kitts boat can be used up river, and the Hovercraft used in the inlet, coupled with the auxiliary detachments across the harbour in North Vancouver and the VPD boat………..If the yacht owners and dragon boaters of False Creek and Granville Island feel they still need a Rescue Boat, they can fundraise like the Northshore yacht club owners and stand up a Coast Guard auxiliary unit centred around a much higher speed (When contrasted with the current Kitts boat) RHIB, a vessel more suited to inshore rescue………..

Christ on a cracker, the Government just opened up another rescue boat station at Stanley Park:

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/npress-communique/2013/pac01-eng.htm

I guess you can't make all unions happy

[Wilber]

That boat is the so called replacement for the Kits station. English Bay which has the majority of pleasure boaters is now to be covered by Sea Island.

You do realize that boat will only operate from May long weekend till Labour day?

Edited February 21, 2013 by Wilber

[Guest Derek L]

That boat is the so called replacement for the Kits station. English Bay which has the majority of pleasure boaters is now to be covered by Sea Island.

I think you’re getting it wrong………The new rescue boat detachment is being based at HMCS Discovery in Stanley Park, coupled with the station across the harbour (now instead of Indian Arm), the old Kitts boat (G&D Mallard) will be based in Richmond, alongside the hovercrafts, and now with the Mallard in Richmond, it can be utilized up the Fraser to Delta port instead of wasting a hovercraft, a said “free Hovercraft” can be utilized in the English Bay and the Inlet……….There are no two ways about it, a Hovercraft in Richmond with a max speed of 40+ Knots will still be able to respond faster, in higher sea states, to a vessel in the middle of English Bay then the conventional Mallard (20+ knots)…………Combine this with a brand new RHIB, also faster then the older Kitts boat, at Stanley Park, and a rebased auxiliary boat across the harbour in North Van……..

We’re plus a new boat, have a older boat also in the harbour, and can redeploy a underutilized Hovercraft out of the Fraser……..And we’re minus one base, but have gained in terms of vessels………..And as I said, if the millionaires that have their boats in False Creek still wanted a RHIB, they can pay (and staff) to set-up a Auxiliary unit, like the Millionaires of North & West Vancouver did with there’s……….

This is purely bitching and moaning by Opposition parties, unions, filthy rich yuppies and the hippy dippy Mayor of Vancouver…………

[Wilber]

The HMCS Discovery boat will only operate between May long weekend and Labour Day. I don't know about the former Indian Arm boat but it is also a volunteer boat, I don't know how removing a boat from Indian Arm increases coverage, it just moves it from one end of the harbour to the other. I don't have a problem with increasing coverage in the harbour but it doesn't start up on Victoria Day and shut down on Labour Day. The harbour airport is one of the busiest in the country and it operates year round. Most pleasure craft operate in English Bay and False Creek and as much as you would like it to be otherwise, most of them are small boaters and kayakers, not billionaire's. They will now be covered by Sea Island from the middle arm of the Fraser. Maybe they will get there and maybe not depending on the weather but if their only priority is picking survivors out of the water, it might be good enough because any incident will probably be over by the time they get there. A helicopter will be good for nothing else.

Regardless of you opinion on this issue, sneaking off without telling anyone until the deed was done was just the sleazy act of cowards who were more interested in themselves than public safety.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Wilber

[Guest Derek L]

The HMS Discovery boat will only operate between May long weekend and Labour Day. I don't know about the former Indian Arm boat but it is also a volunteer boat, I don't know how removing a boat from Indian Arm increases coverage, it just moves it from one end of the harbour to the other. I don't have a problem with increasing coverage in the harbour but it doesn't start up on Victoria Day and shut down on Labour Day. The harbour airport is one of the busiest in the country and it operates year round. Most pleasure craft operate in English Bay and False Creek and as much as you would like it to be otherwise, most of them are small boaters and kayakers, not billionaire's. They will now be covered by Sea Island from the middle arm of the Fraser. Maybe they will get there and maybe not depending on the weather but if their only priority is picking survivors out of the water, it might be good enough because any incident will probably be over by the time they get there. A helicopter will be good for nothing else.

Regardless of you opinion on this issue, sneaking off without telling anyone until the deed was done was just the sleazy act of cowards who were more interested in themselves than public safety.

I think you misunderstood the link:

As it is the case for all Inshore Rescue Boat Stations in British Columbia, operations will extend during the peak season from the May long weekend until after Labour Day.

As I’ve said, the Government is moving the slowest rescue boat (~20+ knots) to the Deltaport/Fraser River area of operations, which will free-up a 40+ knot Hovercraft for English Bay, in addition to adding a RHIB, which depending on model and engines, could have a top speed of 35-70 knots, to Stanley Park………All the while reducing costs associated with operating one base, with no loss of personal and vessels………As to Coast Guard helicopters, there numbers also won’t change, but this has no effect on SAR, for their helicopters are incapable of making rescues at sea………..

And the optics, would you have felt better about the whole thing if it was done next Tuesday?

[Wilber]

I think you misunderstood the link:

As I’ve said, the Government is moving the slowest rescue boat (~20+ knots) to the Deltaport/Fraser River area of operations, which will free-up a 40+ knot Hovercraft for English Bay, in addition to adding a RHIB, which depending on model and engines, could have a top speed of 35-70 knots, to Stanley Park………All the while reducing costs associated with operating one base, with no loss of personal and vessels………As to Coast Guard helicopters, there numbers also won’t change, but this has no effect on SAR, for their helicopters are incapable of making rescues at sea………..

And the optics, would you have felt better about the whole thing if it was done next Tuesday?

I didn't misunderstand anything. Deltaport is almost on the US border, much farther than Sea Island. As for the other hovercraft, 40 knots in ideal conditions, as little as 0 knots if the weather is really bad.

As far as the optics go, how would you feel if your local firehall was closed and no one was told until an hour after the doors were locked? Including the people who were supposed to pick up the slack.

[shortlived]

No some of them are just stupid and vindictive.

Not enough money for a coast guard station in the country's busiest harbor but six times as much for a department of religeous freedom on the same day as it is shut down.

That is a whole different bag of Charlie.

You should start a thread...

An absence of notice does suck, but did they know it was closing in advance, if so were there national security concerns on it?

Edited February 21, 2013 by shortlived

[Wilber]

That is a whole different bag of Charlie.

You should start a thread...

Just an observation. Draw your own conclusions about their priorities.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Wilber

[shortlived]

Just an observation. Draw you own conclusions about their priorities.

Well, I think what is absent is who made the call, I'm not aware of Mr. Clement being a boater, or what his basis would be for doing this? Could the coast guard have decided this based on a strategic review? You know save 10%, well... where is the best place to do this.

I do think that self organization is the answer on this one. Why don't you organize local plebs (no offense intended.) to have "rescue" capability.

IMO though once it gets cold, moving the small boats to the lakes and rivers BC has seems prudent. Boating in the fall and winter seems risky.

I'm not sure who there is.

THE DEFICIT NEEDS TO BE SLASHED, the debt needs to be paid down.

I would say to the boaters organize your own rescue

We can't depend on the government for anything.

Organize it as a business and claim cost write offs rather than out of pocket, then its still being paid for.

There are really cheap cmos telescoping sensors that can be rigged up for an emergency detection array. Heck even a self piloting rescue craft could be rigged up. Even one that is supercaviated for super fast rescue (including from an electromagentic cannon for really fast launch) for subsurface rescue then surfacing for retreival, a self rescue pod could be made less than the operating cost of the station, actually a bunch could. Alll aquadrone no need for much staffing costs or boats. Even electronic craft, no gas etc.. An alternate design may be an EM catapult "skipper rescue craft" that is launched out into sea and skips on the ocean. Robotic arms and other attachments like launched netting can scoop people up quite quickly. Dryer air systems, etc... it just is thinking old here.

If people can organize life guards why not boat guards? If community watch, why not sea watch/

Do not trust the government, do not depend on the government. *golden rule*

Edited February 21, 2013 by shortlived

[Wilber]

Slashing the deficit my ass. The government has plenty of money for its pet projects. The latest, spending millions trying to promote religious freedom in countries that aren't interested in anything of the sort.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Wilber

[shortlived]

Slashing the deficit my ass. The government has plenty of money for its pet projects. The latest, spending millions trying to promote religious freedom in countries that aren't interested in anything of the sort.

I agree. There needs to be more cuts, and the government is just playing with money not addressing the issue of slashing the debt.

I think they are anything but a command economy mind, and they are basically just a mechanism to convert public funds to the private sector. They are just managing a malignant system. That is 40% of all GDP is just being converted to slush funds to fuel partisan interests. Just another from of embezzlement, this is why we need to get rid of income taxes and make government fiscally responsible by only providing core services, and charging for the rest based on demand.

The first mistake is expecting the government to provide for you. This is why equal rights and protections are so important. Only the destitute should be protected and given work, aside from core support services. Government needs to be dumbed down it is full of unneeded bureaucracy that is just a make work project for professional paper pushers that are better suited to the inefficient corporate sector..that makes up for the inefficiency by charging a 600% markup on their goods that are protected corporate monopolies due to IP protections.

The public shouldn't be forced to pay a 600% markup plus interest to pay for government emulation of a failed economic system in terms of the bang for the buck delivered on tax dollars collected from your pocket.

Edited February 21, 2013 by shortlived

[Wilber]

Any governments first priority should be the safety and security of its own citizens. Everything else is secondary.

[shortlived]

Any governments first priority should be the safety and security of its own citizens. Everything else is secondary.

Safety starts at home.

Play safe.

No I don't think it is up to the government to protect people it is a service for them to do so. People should protect themselves, first. Having access to a cop is just an advantage. Lots of people in remote areas, including the ocean are their own officers. As a captain of a craft you are responsible for your souls.

Resources are limited, rescue at sea is not a given. Urban areas have quick response times, how many people own boats?

Sure priorities could be better, but rule of the sea is to lend aid to your fellow sea people in distress. If you don't have a sturdy craft or the seas are bad don't endanger yourself Have a plan and boat in packs. These are common sense rules. Wear boyant stuff like a wetsuit, or drysuit while at sea, and have an emergency plan. emergency radio beacons or other systems. Don't stray far from shore if you can't swim that far in the water conditions.

Law and Order is what is important people die, this preserve life kick is secondary to the provide an ideal society, which is the #1 priority not save life. People die and are killed at times for good reasons such as protecting the social ethos.

If saving life was #1 fast food and other bad for you junk food would be banned, guns would be illegal as would sharp objects in general, people wouldn't be able to drive cars over 20km/h and we would have neighbour hood health status kiosks.

Its not about how long you live but the protection of your life, liberty and happiness.

The government is not suppose to provide this for you, but should make it available for you to secure it on your own.

The safeguards should be there but this means insuring an order and law that insures the capability of all people based on the protection of the equal rights and freedoms.

Edited February 21, 2013 by shortlived