RW Authoritarians Rolling back Cannabis decriminalization in Canada

[punked]

So you agree that long term and/or frequent pot usage could cause or heighten cases of mental illness in some? (Like Alcohol)

I agree there is a link between the mentally ill and substance abuse of all drugs legal and illegal. Although until someone can tell me how pot, alcohol, or tobacco actually cause mental illness it might just be that those who are mentally ill seek drugs to self treat.

[Guest Derek L]

I agree there is a link between the mentally ill and substance abuse of all drugs legal and illegal. Although until someone can tell me how pot, alcohol, or tobacco actually cause mental illness it might just be that those who are mentally ill seek drugs to self treat.

So frequent alcohol usage doesn’t cause mental issues in some?………And Tobacco withdrawals don’t cause depression?

[punked]

So frequent alcohol usage doesn’t cause mental issues in some?………And Tobacco withdrawals don’t cause depression?

We are talking about long term mental issues and disorder. Now you want to change that to mental issues? That is a different argument. Do you want to talk about short term mental issues or long term mental illness?

[Guest Derek L]

We are talking about long term mental issues and disorder. Now you want to change that to mental issues? That is a different argument. Do you want to talk about short term mental issues or long term mental illness?

All of the above.

[punked]

All of the above.

So the first argument didn't check out so lets move to the second. Short term mental health. Hey I'll expand it for you it appears things like exercise improve mental health. Those not exercising are doing the same damage to their bodies as those smoking weed. People make choices I don't see your point here.

Edited February 3, 2013 by punked

[Guest Derek L]

So the first argument didn't check out so lets move to the second. Short term mental health. Hey I'll expand it for you it appears things like exercise improve mental health. Those not exercising are doing the same damage to their bodies as those smoking weed. People make choices I don't see your point here.

Will a pot smoker that exercises counteract any potential negative effects associated with mental illness?

[punked]

Will a pot smoker that exercises counteract any potential negative effects associated with mental illness?

Again you are talking about two different things. One is long term none correctable mental illness (which we have discussed in this thread is not caused by pot, it is most likely that those mental illnesses seek out self medication at on set of the illness in drugs like pot, alcohol, cigarettes and coffee) the second is short term mental health from withdraw. You have not made any case yet that pot causes that in the least. You are showing your ignorance here in confusing two very different things. I'll wait for your science on the second case. I will tell the science there is even weaker then the already junk science others have linked to for long term mental illness.

You aren't using science for you facts you are using bias to make a case and there is no room for bias in this argument.

Edited February 3, 2013 by punked

[Rocky Road]

I agree there is a link between the mentally ill and substance abuse of all drugs legal and illegal.

Ok!! Now we are getting somewhere. Good luck getting it legalized, it will never happen. Medicinal cannabis may be ok for people with glaucoma, AIDS, terminal cancer, polio, and severe pain.

[Guest Derek L]

Again you are talking about two different things. One is long term none correctable mental illness (which we have discussed in this thread is not caused by pot, it is most likely that those mental illnesses seek out self medication at on set of the illness in drugs like pot, alcohol, cigarettes and coffee) the second is short term mental health from withdraw. You have not made any case yet that pot causes that in the least. You are showing your ignorance here in confusing two very different things. I'll wait for your science on the second case. I will tell the science there is even weaker then the already junk science others have linked to for long term mental illness.

You aren't using science for you facts you are using bias to make a case and there is no room for bias in this argument.

Myself and others have provided links from scientists and healthcare officials………As to bias, no I have none on this issue, I don’t use the stuff, nor d I care if it’s made legal……..I have no dog in this one.

[punked]

Ok!! Now we are getting somewhere. Good luck getting it legalized, it will never happen. Medicinal cannabis may be ok for people with glaucoma, AIDS, terminal cancer, polio, and severe pain.

You seriously think we should be putting productive members of society behind bars because you are scared of Pot. Please say you think Obama should be in jail say it so I can dismiss you. Otherwise you are hypocrite and I dismiss you right now.

Again I agree those who are mentally ill seek out self medication with all kinds drugs. Like coffee. You think coffee should illegal because people with mental illness often drink it?

Your arguments are weak and guess what? You are losing.

65 per cent of Canadians favour either the legalization and taxation of the drug, or decriminalizing it in small amounts.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2012/11/20/marijuana_legalization_or_decriminalization_backed_by_most_canadians_poll.html

It is happening and you are going to be on the sidelines because you don't know anything and people with out facts can only keep people with out facts from winning the argument for so long.

[punked]

Myself and others have provided links from scientists and healthcare officials………As to bias, no I have none on this issue, I don’t use the stuff, nor d I care if it’s made legal……..I have no dog in this one.

Not to your second argument. Can you not see you are using studies for long term mental illness to talk about withdraw effects a different thing? Again saying "scientist say this" while not linking to that claim means you don't understand the science and can't speak to it.

[Guest Manny]

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Edited April 4, 2013 by Manny

[Rocky Road]

Substance abuse is a major ill to society, it ruins peoples lives. And these people just don't go away, these lowlives as you call them. They still need to be fed, clothed, and housed. Many mentally ill end up homeless and desperate because they have fallen through the cracks. Jails, mental health wards and recovery treatment centres are meant to help people to make better choices. What about the link to crime? You think drugs and crime don't go hand in hand? FYI pot is illegal in most countries around the world, some tolerate it because it is simply more efficient [cost-effective] to do so. You do not want to smoke weed in places like Saudi Arabia, China, Korea, Iran, Russia, etc...because the liberal values just aren't there. You think Holland is liking the Pot tourism they have in with all their cafes. No. It is frowned upon. If Canada legalizes it we would suddenly attract major international attention for being so radical in our policy making. It is a pipe dream!!! Delusional!

[punked]

The technical arguments you made re population studies with remote cultures has imploded, so now you dodge out back to the "Its unfair!"legal arguments. We should know if the stuff is really safe or not, before we decide what to do about it. If anything.

No I am not bailing out of that argument. That argument stands but we were going in circles. I keep pointing out how weak the argument for what you claim and linking real science that points that out you are wrong and you keep ignoring the science because it doesn't fit with what you believe.

You want to take stab at the twin study and discuss it or do you only care about science you think supports what you believe. I have addressed your correlation studies and talked about why correlation studies are weak so talk about mine or else we move on.

So I have moved on to the second argument. Many people smoke pot or have at one time. You think we should lock up the last three presidents. You think friends and neighbors who do good for society should go to jail for what again? Some crappy science. We know for a fact tobacco kills people yet we let them smoke it still. So I ask are our laws on drugs broken or do you think the President of the US should go to jail?

Edited February 3, 2013 by punked

[punked]

Substance abuse is a major ill to society, it ruins peoples lives. And these people just don't go away, these lowlives as you call them. They still need to be fed, clothed, and housed. Many mentally ill end up homeless and desperate because they have fallen through the cracks. Jails, mental health wards and recovery treatment centres are meant to help people to make better choices. What about the link to crime? You think drugs and crime don't go hand in hand? FYI pot is illegal in most countries around the world, some tolerate it because it is simply more efficient [cost-effective] to do so. You do not want to smoke weed in places like Saudi Arabia, China, Korea, Iran, Russia, etc...because the liberal values just aren't there. You think Holland is liking the Pot tourism they have in with all their cafes. No. It is frowned upon. If Canada legalizes it we would suddenly attract major international attention for being so radical in our policy making. It is a pipe dream!!! Delusional!

Know what would be great? Instead of sending them to jail we take that money and put it toward treatment. Do you agree or disagree? Should we change our drug laws so we can help people with problems and have the money to do so or should we lock them up where they get no help.

Again should we change our drug laws or not? Should we treat these problems? Or should we lock them up with others with similar problems where those problems are only reinforced and hurt these people more. Do you agree our laws are broken? Seriously answer my questions because I have answered and addressed yours.

[eyeball]

Legality isnt the issue here.

You'd have to be bat-shit crazy to believe that.

[eyeball]

Where have I said Pot should be illegal? I’m not under the notion that Pot usage, like Alcohol usage is harmless, and as pointed out in the research linked by myself and others, has the potential to cause or heighten the possibility of mental illnesses in some, again, like Alcohol.

So...just WTF are you saying and whyTF are you going in so many circles saying it?

[eyeball]

Ok!! Now we are getting somewhere. Good luck getting it legalized, it will never happen. Medicinal cannabis may be ok for people with glaucoma, AIDS, terminal cancer, polio, and severe pain.

What's alcohol good for and why shouldn't you authoritarians roll back our civil liberty to use it recreationally?

[Rocky Road]

Know what would be great? Instead of sending them to jail we take that money and put it toward treatment. Do you agree or disagree? Should we change our drug laws so we can help people with problems and have the money to do so or should we lock them up where they get no help.

Again should we change our drug laws or not? Should we treat these problems? Or should we lock them up with others with similar problems where those problems are only reinforced and hurt these people more. Do you agree our laws are broken? Seriously answer my questions because I have answered and addressed yours.

I do agree with harm reduction.

[Rocky Road]

What's alcohol good for and why shouldn't you authoritarians roll back our civil liberty to use it recreationally?

What would MADD say?

[eyeball]

They should be hollering for Google-cars, now please answer my question.

[Guest Manny]

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Edited April 4, 2013 by Manny

[punked]

What would MADD say?

They would say you shouldn't drive drunk. Great question has nothing to do with pot though.

[punked]

I do agree with harm reduction.

Part of Harm reduction is not punishing people and ruining their lives for something half the country does. The poor unlucky ones who get caught eh? Where would Obama be if he was caught? Not where he is today. So do the laws now work or don't they?

Edited February 3, 2013 by punked

[punked]

Ok. Sounds like its not completely harmless then. People who are susceptible should be warned before using pot.

Who will decide, find who they are? Probably a doctor. What do you think.

Would that be ok, punked?

I think we should educate people on the harms of all drugs. An informed populous is a powerful tool. I don't think what we are doing now is working. Can we at least agree on that? The way the laws are structured now and the education we give are not working so we need to address that and change that.