RW Authoritarians Rolling back Cannabis decriminalization in Canada

[cybercoma]

http://www.drugabuse...-mental-illness

"Research in the past decade has focused on whether marijuana use actually causes other mental illnesses. The strongest evidence to date suggests a link between cannabis use and psychosis.⁹ For example, a series of large prospective studies that followed a group of people over time showed a relationship between marijuana use and later development of psychosis. Marijuana use also worsens the course of illness in patients with schizophrenia and can produce a brief psychotic reaction in some users that fades as the drug wears off. The amount of drug used, the age at first use, and genetic vulnerability can all influence this relationship."

You'll have to excuse me for posting this link second. I'm going backwards through the thread.

This one notes that people tend to develop psychosis if they use pot, but also have a genetic predisposition to psychosis.

found an increased risk of psychosis among adults who had used marijuana in adolescence and who also carried a specific variant of the gene for catechol-O-methyltransferase (COMT), an enzyme that degrades neurotransmitters such as dopamine and norepinephrine.

Emphasis theirs.

Looking at the actual study that this report comes from, you should also be aware that 1% of the respondents were considered schizophrenic, while some 26% were pot smokers. To be frank, it's a bit much to say with those numbers that smoking pot is causing schizophrenia. However, and once again punked alluded to this, pot may exacerbate the effects of schizophrenia, while schizophrenics may be more likely to use pot as a sedative in an attempt to self-medicate.

[cybercoma]

http://www.schizophr...=430268

Here is a thread of schizophrenics discussing the subject.

I work in Mental Health, I see it all the time.

Cannabis is a dangerous drug that leads to paranoia, delusions, and psychosis.

So your anecdotal sample is people with mental illness, with whom you say you work, and you think that this is a valid sample to make inferences about the general population?

[Rocky Road]

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/expertadvice/problems/alcoholanddrugs/cannabis.aspx

Mental health problems

There is growing evidence that people with serious mental illness, including depression and psychosis, are more likely to use cannabis or have used it for long periods of time in the past. Regular use of the drug has appeared to double the risk of developing a psychotic episode or long-term schizophrenia. However, does cannabis cause depression and schizophrenia or do people with these disorders use it as a medication?

Over the past few years, research has strongly suggested that there is a clear link between early cannabis use and later mental health problems in those with a genetic vulnerability - and that there is a particular issue with the use of cannabis by adolescents.

• Depression
  

A study following 1600 Australian school-children, aged 14 to 15 for seven years, found that while children who use cannabis regularly have a significantly higher risk of depression, the opposite was not the case - children who already suffered from depression were not more likely than anyone else to use cannabis. However, adolescents who used cannabis daily were five times more likely to develop depression and anxiety in later life.

• Schizophrenia
  

Three major studies followed large numbers of people over several years, and showed that those people who use cannabis have a higher than average risk of developing schizophrenia. If you start smoking it before the age of 15, you are 4 times more likely to develop a psychotic disorder by the time you are 26. They found no evidence of self-medication. It seemed that, the more cannabis someone used, the more likely they were to develop symptoms.

Why should teenagers be particularly vulnerable to the use of cannabis? No one knows for certain, but it may be something to do with brain development. The brain is still developing in the teenage years – up to the age of around 20, in fact. A massive process of ‘neural pruning’ is going on. This is rather like streamlining a tangled jumble of circuits so they can work more effectively. Any experience, or substance, that affects this process has the potential to produce long-term psychological effects.

Recent research in Europe, and in the UK, has suggested that people who have a family background of mental illness – and so probably have a genetic vulnerability anyway - are more likely to develop schizophrenia if they use cannabis as well.

Is there such a thing as ‘cannabis psychosis’?

Recent research in Denmark suggests that yes, there is. It is a short-lived psychotic disorder that seems to be brought on by cannabis use but which subsides fairly quickly once the individual has stopped using it. It's quite unusual though – in the whole of Denmark they found only around 100 new cases per year.

However, they also found that:

• Three quarters had a different psychotic disorder diagnosed within the next year.
  
• Nearly half still had a psychotic disorder 3 years later.
  

So, it also seems probable that nearly half of those diagnosed as having cannabis psychosis are actually showing the first signs of a more long-lasting psychotic disorder, such as schizophrenia. It may be this group of people who are particularly vulnerable to the effects of cannabis, and so should probably avoid it in the future.

[Rocky Road]

http://www.na.org/ Recovery is possible.

[Rocky Road]

"The chief ingredient in marijuana is THC, a mild form of acid, prolonged usage of which can cause adverse effects to your sexual potency, short term memory loss, and can also severly damage your brain tissue, central nervous system, and basic motor skills. To put it simply mom and dad, theres a reason they call it dope." - Chris Griffin, Family Guy

Ha.

[cybercoma]

I give up. You don't seem to understand that correlation does not mean causation. You're arguing that pot causes mental illness, then you're posting research about correlation. To give you an example that is a reductio ad absurdum, what you're saying is that putting on a raincoat causes it to rain because you often see people wearing raincoats when it's raining.

Edited February 3, 2013 by cybercoma

[Rocky Road]

I give up.

Causation/correlation ...that's a fine line, and why are you so adamantly defending the safety of smoking cannabis? Anyway you cut it, it is a hard sell because the effect of smoking is to cause psychoactive effects on the brain. Whether "good" or "bad".

[Guest Derek L]

Causation/correlation ...that's a fine line, and why are you so adamantly defending the safety of smoking cannabis? Anyway you cut it, it is a hard sell because the effect of smoking is to cause psychoactive effects on the brain. Whether "good" or "bad".

For the win...............With that said, if they want to smoke it legally, why should we (as in society) attempt to stop them? Cigarettes, alcohol and cheeseburgers aren’t good for you either……….but if someone get’s something positive out of it short term, but ends up making them less healthy long term, why should we care?

[punked]

Causation/correlation ...that's a fine line, and why are you so adamantly defending the safety of smoking cannabis? Anyway you cut it, it is a hard sell because the effect of smoking is to cause psychoactive effects on the brain. Whether "good" or "bad".

The point is you are wrong cannabis use does not cause psychosis. You keep linking to the same studies over and over and over again NONE OF THEM make the conclusion cannabis causes mental health issues NONE OF THEM! That should say something to you. Sometimes though science draws bad conclusions because of where their money comes from so you have to actually read the study to understand if it is real science or bull shit. They have a history of the BS type with this drug.

[Guest Derek L]

The point is you are wrong cannabis use does not cause psychosis. You keep linking to the same studies over and over and over again NONE OF THEM make the conclusion cannabis causes mental health issues NONE OF THEM! That should say something to you. Sometimes though science draws bad conclusions because of where their money comes from so you have to actually read the study to understand if it is real science or bull shit. They have a history of the BS type with this drug.

http://www.cmha.ca/m...s/#.UQ30ZB1JPao

What Causes Psychosis?

When psychosis occurs for the first time it is difficult to know the cause. Psychosis is associated with a number of medical conditions including schizophrenia, depression, bipolar (manic-depressive) disorder and substance abuse, among others. Because the first episode of psychosis can signal a variety of conditions, it is important to seek a thorough medical assessment.

and:

http://www.drugabuse...facts/marijuana

A number of studies have shown an association between chronic marijuana use and mental illness. High doses of marijuana can produce a temporary psychotic reaction (involving hallucinations and paranoia) in some users, and using marijuana can worsen the course of illness in patients with schizophrenia. A series of large prospective studies also showed a link between marijuana use and later development of psychosis. This relationship was influenced by genetic variables as well as the amount of drug used and the age at which it was first taken—those who start young are at increased risk for later problems.

Associations have also been found between marijuana use and other mental health problems, such as depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts among adolescents, and personality disturbances, including a lack of motivation to engage in typically rewarding activities. More research is still needed to confirm and better understand these linkages.

Marijuana use during pregnancy is associated with increased risk of neurobehavioral problems in babies. Because THC and other compounds in marijuana mimic the body’s own cannabinoid-like chemicals, marijuana use by pregnant mothers may alter the developing endocannabinoid system in the brain of the fetus. Consequences for the child may include problems with attention, memory, and problem solving.

So perhaps we should study the reefer further, perhaps it’s increase in usage over the last ~40-50 years can also be the cause of the increased levels of mental illness (as mentioned frequently by Eyeball) found today……..As I understand it, today’s Pot is vastly stronger when contrasted with the pot found in the 60s and 70s………..

Edited February 3, 2013 by Derek L

[Guest Derek L]

Some more Science:

High Potency Pot:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/08/120815103000.htm

Recent research from the past 5 years has shown that marijuana exposure during pregnancy has been associated with anencephaly, a non-sustaining life condition where a large part of the skull or brain is absent, neurobehavioral deficiencies, such as attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, learning disabilities and memory impairment in toddlers and 10 year olds, as well as neuropsychiatric conditions, including depression, aggression and anxiety, in teens.

So perhaps before legalizing The Pot, we should conduct further studies and drastically reduce the high capacity THC levels associated with today’s dope………Why do pot smokers need such a strong strain? Wasn’t the stuff smoked in the 60s and 70s good enough to relax at the end of the day in the comfort of home?

[punked]

http://www.cmha.ca/m...s/#.UQ30ZB1JPao

and:

http://www.drugabuse...facts/marijuana

So perhaps we should study the reefer further, perhaps it’s increase in usage over the last ~40-50 years can also be the cause of the increased levels of mental illness (as mentioned frequently by Eyeball) found today……..As I understand it, today’s Pot is vastly stronger when contrasted with the pot found in the 60s and 70s………..

Again countries that don't smoke have the rates of Schizophrenia as countries that do so their goes that dumb theory.

[punked]

Some more Science:

High Potency Pot:

http://www.scienceda...20815103000.htm

So perhaps before legalizing The Pot, we should conduct further studies and drastically reduce the high capacity THC levels associated with today’s dope………Why do pot smokers need such a strong strain? Wasn’t the stuff smoked in the 60s and 70s good enough to relax at the end of the day in the comfort of home?

As soon as you take the same interest in alcohol which is linked to everything you seem to think is a big deal I will take you seriously. Until then you just another hypocrite.

[Guest Derek L]

Again countries that don't smoke have the rates of Schizophrenia as countries that do so their goes that dumb theory.

Care to provide a link? Clearly the link I provided said further research is required into high capacity THC Pot.

[Guest Derek L]

As soon as you take the same interest in alcohol which is linked to everything you seem to think is a big deal I will take you seriously. Until then you just another hypocrite.

Have I said alcohol isn’t harmful? I thought this discussion was on Pot?

[punked]

Have I said alcohol isn’t harmful? I thought this discussion was on Pot?

Well here is the referendum question that passed in Washington which legalized pot. "Do you the voter which to treat marijuana the same as alcohol."

My question for you because you seem to be linking to all these studies with out linking to the ones about alcohol having more harmful effects. Do you think we should treat them the same?

[punked]

Care to provide a link? Clearly the link I provided said further research is required into high capacity THC Pot.

Here is a map of Schizophrenics per 100,000 people in a population. You can see the US and all high pot using countries are actually countries with some of the lowest rates. It is junk science and I expect better of you.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Schizophrenia_world_map_-_DALY_-_WHO2004.svg

[Guest Derek L]

Well here is the referendum question that passed in Washington which legalized pot. "Do you the voter which to treat marijuana the same as alcohol."

My question for you because you seem to be linking to all these studies with out linking to the ones about alcohol having more harmful effects. Do you think we should treat them the same?

Again, I thought this discussion was on Pot? I fully understand the negative attributes associated with alcohol, Tobacco and Fast/processed foods, but prior to legalizing another vice, shouldn’t we further study Pot itself?

Why does today’s Pot need to be vastly stronger in terms of higher capacity levels of THC, when contrasted with the Pot floating around 40+ years ago?………..Perhaps if we were to legalize Pot, it’s THC levels should mimic those of the 1960s, if only to prevent a possible increase in mental illness amongst pot users.

[punked]

Again, I thought this discussion was on Pot? I fully understand the negative attributes associated with alcohol, Tobacco and Fast/processed foods, but prior to legalizing another vice, shouldn’t we further study Pot itself?

Why does today’s Pot need to be vastly stronger in terms of higher capacity levels of THC, when contrasted with the Pot floating around 40+ years ago?………..Perhaps if we were to legalize Pot, it’s THC levels should mimic those of the 1960s, if only to prevent a possible increase in mental illness amongst pot users.

Again I ask are in favor of treating pot the same as we do alcohol?

[Guest Derek L]

Here is a map of Schizophrenics per 100,000 people in a population. You can see the US and all high pot using countries are actually countries with some of the lowest rates. It is junk science and I expect better of you.

http://upload.wikime...Y_-_WHO2004.svg

You've linked to a map of the world with differing shades of Yellow and Orange?

[Guest Derek L]

Again I ask are in favor of treating pot the same as we do alcohol?

That’s rather arbitrary……..Do we treat alcohol & tobacco the same as McDonalds Burgers?

[punked]

That’s rather arbitrary……..Do we treat alcohol & tobacco the same as McDonalds Burgers?

We treat alcohol and tobacco the same yes. Interestingly enough they have about the same correlation risk factors as marijuana on mental illness so there goes your argument on that one. So are in favor of treating marijuana the same as alcohol and tobacco?

[eyeball]

So perhaps we should study the reefer further, perhaps it’s increase in usage over the last ~40-50 years can also be the cause of the increased levels of mental illness (as mentioned frequently by Eyeball).

Sorry, you must have me confused with someone else, I never mentioned that.

[eyeball]

Have I said alcohol isn’t harmful? I thought this discussion was on Pot?

The discussion is about authoritarians rolling back any thought of not punishing people for altering their minds. It seems reasonable to suggest they stay on a roll and push that line all the way back to alcohol again too.

[Guest Derek L]

We treat alcohol and tobacco the same yes. Interestingly enough they have about the same correlation risk factors as marijuana on mental illness so there goes your argument on that one. So are in favor of treating marijuana the same as alcohol and tobacco?

Well, no we don’t, just as we don’t treat booze, cheeseburgers and cigarettes the same……..I can sit here and converse with you well drinking a bottle of Budweiser well my son sits not ten feet away watching a movie on tv…….If I were sitting here smoking a joint (or a cigarette) the negative associated attributes would also effect him……..But if I where smoking a cigarette, unlike Pot or booze, I could drive up to McDonalds without impaired judgement, thusly not potentially endangering other motorists, well returning with a poisonous double cheeseburger for my son and I………….Clearly they are not all the same.

Now if you were to ask if I felt you should be able to legally poison yourself with pot, my answer would be yes but with restrictions like said other “vices”………….