Why do we have monsters?

[Guest Manny]

No , I hope that isnt what is being conveyed.

I felt this whole thread was a premise on betsy's part to invoke the lack of religion as the (or one of the main) reasons why things like Newtown occur. It smelled like it to me.

I certainly feel for the parents who lost kids, that is the ultimate pain for anyone , heathen or not.

I didn't interpret it like they deserved it because they have no belief in god. But its possible that this tragedy and some others may be due to a society that seeks increasingly more violent stimulus. We've lost faith in churches, and many don't believe in a god or don't care, but we didn't replace it with some other living, viable code of ethics. Just a trust or faith that these things will somehow sort themselves out, without moral guidance, neither socially engineered or by divine inspiration. Law of the west. Wow, such a surprising outcome.

[Sleipnir]

What do you say to console a grieving parent?

Nothing, you need listen to what they have to say. They need someone to talk to and to discuss their feelings of whats going on.

[betsy]

Sure, and from a Christian perspective you can probably see the "joy" of 20 children getting the best Christmas present ever! They are now dancing with Jesus!

Yep, nothing better than "being with God" and "being in a better place" etc etc

I got an update on this. Posted on "Questions, Misconceptions, Objections....etc.,"

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=21315&st=525&gopid=865740entry865740

[msj]

I got an update on this. Posted on "Questions, Misconceptions, Objections....etc.,"

It's against forum rules to cross post within forums so I am going to obey the rules and reply here.

Yesterday you said this about "my" comments:

Btw, for the record, I don't see violence as something "joyful." I don't see the way these children died as something to be "joyful" about.

Today, after getting instructions from high on up, you now agree with such comments.

Funny that.

At any rate - pretty disturbing stuff trying to reconcile belief in a sky fairy who is allegedly omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent and yet "works in mysterious ways" for some kind of far off future benefit.

It is fatalistic and predestination type thinking that is exactly what is wrong with society and many religious "thinking."

Is it any wonder we can't get movement towards better gun control laws and better health care for the mentally ill when it is possible that as many as 71% of Americans think this way (to use CC's number from post #32)?

But I see now that the Westboro Baptists want to do a "protest" in Newton and can clearly see the links between this Christian hate group and mainstream Christianity - so, thanks for making it so stark for me, Betsy.

You have been most useful for showing us the way.

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ETA - Although not related to gun massacres (at least not yet and lets hope never), I see that the Pope has blessed one of the prime movers of the Ugandan anti-homosexual bill.

Once again another link between mainstream religion and monsters.

So, no, it is not in the water we drink.

Well, maybe if you're drinking too much holy water.

No, it is in the ways humans find to "rationalize" such thinking as Betsy and the Westboro Baptists and the Catholic Church.

Which is not to say that atheists/agnostics don't have some appalling "thinking" too.

It's just that we're not as organized and as prevalent in society so we don't get the chance to create as many monsters as 1 billion Catholics, 1 Billion Muslims and 1 Billion Protestants do.

Edited December 16, 2012 by msj

[cybercoma]

Is it any wonder we can't get movement towards better gun control laws and better health care for the mentally ill when it is possible that as many as 71% of Americans think this way (to use CC's number from post #32)?

Not my numbers. It's from statistical analysis conducted by Pew Forum.