Mass shooting

[Guest Derek L]

More information

http://articles.chic...esource-officer

Minutes I seem to remember one senator Lyndsay Gram saying that he could pump off and reload several magazines in just a few minutes when talking about how high capacity magazines should be legal. Sandy Hook apparently happened in just minutes, Aura the theater shooting happened in minutes, according to Mark Kelly his wifes shooting happened in seconds. So now we know nothing was prevented this young man had plenty of time to shoot others he just chose not to.

Maybe next time wait for the facts to come out in your story to see if they actually support your argument because in this case they don't. An armed police officer didn't stop a school shooting here. It happened.

More info

Not a random shooting at all, and not prevented at all.

How many "minutes"? Perhaps he was disarmed within 120 seconds? 180 seconds? 240?

[Guest Derek L]

Here you go Derek here is an article that supports your side. Gun still wont stop mass shootings though.

http://www.wxyz.com/...hool-in-detroit

And it happens all the time............The vast majority of incidents involving CCW & firearms, like police with firearms, doesn’t even involve shots fired……….The mere deterrence factor associated with a firearm is usually sufficient.

[Pliny]

The fact punked doesn't want a gun and that he and most Canadians don't see the need to own a gun, unless they enjoy hunting or target practice is a sign that right now we live in a fairly civilized society. But as you know nothing in the physical universe is static so if the occasion should arise that punked thinks he should have a gun the question will arise if he still has a choice.

[Guest Derek L]

The fact punked doesn't want a gun and that he and most Canadians don't see the need to own a gun, unless they enjoy hunting or target practice is a sign that right now we live in a fairly civilized society. But as you know nothing in the physical universe is static so if the occasion should arise that punked thinks he should have a gun the question will arise if he still has a choice.

Exactly, as I’ve said numerous times, living here in Canada, I have a greater chance of drowning in my backyard pool then being killed by a gun, and I, an owner of many guns, likens their use to sports and as a hobby collecting, and have never once been in a situation where I’ve needed one to protect myself and family from a predator, be it two or four legged…………

But as you’ve correctly pointed out, circumstances could change with a drop of the hat………ie a natural disaster like Katrina……….And even more so, shouldn’t a person have the right to defend themselves within the goings on of their daily lives? I’m not suggesting that everyone should be forced upon owning a gun, and if certain anti-gun folk feel content relying on 911 or defending themselves with nothing more than a Banana and a spoon, that’s quite alright by me………

If anything, most people currently afraid of guns shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near them…….

[Guest Derek L]

And coming full circle:

http://www.nbcconnec...9320221.html?dr

Newtown Calls for Armed School Officers

The Newtown Board of Education wants more armed police officers in the town's four elementary schools after the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary.

Last night, they decided to ask the town to approve the request to include one additional full-time Newtown police at each of the elementary schools in next year's budget.

Members of the board will meet today with state and federal officials about obtaining additional funding for security.

Edited February 3, 2013 by Derek L

[jbg]

A trained police officer is one thing. A barely literate and trained armed security guard is quite another.

[punked]

How many "minutes"? Perhaps he was disarmed within 120 seconds? 180 seconds? 240?

Yah we learned more about that school shooting. Seems the security that was there at the time had the metal detector down and didn't want to wand all the students. Seems the "Armed security guards" didn't want to do their jobs Derek so this kid with gun got past them. Great job boys. Whats the point if the security doesn't even do their job Derek? This is the example you point to for have security guards? A school were a shooting happened BECAUSE THE SECURITY DIDN'T DO THEIR JOB. Man you really need to wait for the full story before you post things like this because now you look silly.

Know what would have prevented this? Instead of the security having guns IF THEY DID THEIR JOB and used the metal detector.

Edited February 3, 2013 by punked

[punked]

The fact punked doesn't want a gun and that he and most Canadians don't see the need to own a gun, unless they enjoy hunting or target practice is a sign that right now we live in a fairly civilized society. But as you know nothing in the physical universe is static so if the occasion should arise that punked thinks he should have a gun the question will arise if he still has a choice.

I own a gun. I am not against gun ownership. They can be a great tool. There is no reason anyone needs a gun that can shoot off 500 rounds in two minutes. Can you imagine 100 people dead even before that armed security guard can get to the scene because we already know it took him MINUTES to arrive on the scene. Almost every mass shooting we have seen in the last year was over in a matter of minutes.

Now we know Derek's suggestion wont work because at a school it takes the security guard minutes to get to the shooting. Many mass shootings are over in a matter of minutes. Then all we got is dead kids but at least we had someone there to shoot the guy after he was done eh killing all those kids eh? Time to get rid of guns that can kill that many kids in the time it takes a security guard to get to the shooter.

Edited February 3, 2013 by punked

[jbg]

I own a gun. I am not against gun ownership. They can be a great tool. There is no reason anyone needs a gun that can shoot off 500 rounds in two minutes. Can you imagine 100 people dead even before that armed security guard can get to the scene because we already know it took him MINUTES to arrive on the scene. Almost every mass shooting we have seen in the last year was over in a matter of minutes.

I tend to agree but some "gun people" have raised the specter of how you handle two burglars at once.

[Guest Derek L]

A trained police officer is one thing. A barely literate and trained armed security guard is quite another.

As I said earlier (to you?) the firearms training regime of a police officer isn't that extensive.

[Guest Derek L]

Yah we learned more about that school shooting. Seems the security that was there at the time had the metal detector down and didn't want to wand all the students. Seems the "Armed security guards" didn't want to do their jobs Derek so this kid with gun got past them. Great job boys. Whats the point if the security doesn't even do their job Derek? This is the example you point to for have security guards? A school were a shooting happened BECAUSE THE SECURITY DIDN'T DO THEIR JOB. Man you really need to wait for the full story before you post things like this because now you look silly.

Know what would have prevented this? Instead of the security having guns IF THEY DID THEIR JOB and used the metal detector.

You have a link to prove the officer didn't want to do his job?

[punked]

As I said earlier (to you?) the firearms training regime of a police officer isn't that extensive.

They are trained to deal with the situation though Derek. They spend much training in different situations and how to deal with them. It is more then just they know which way to shoot. They know when to shoot, they know who to shoot, they know when not to shoot, they extensive metal testing, background checks and so on. There is a difference between police officers and just regular people with guns.

[punked]

You have a link to prove the officer didn't want to do his job?

The officer wasn't on duty that day. Other security did not wand the students and the metal detectors weren't working. Again there would have been no need for a gun and the whole thing could have been prevented with out anyone getting shot if they just used the tools that were already at the school.

[Guest Derek L]

I own a gun. I am not against gun ownership. They can be a great tool. There is no reason anyone needs a gun that can shoot off 500 rounds in two minutes. Can you imagine 100 people dead even before that armed security guard can get to the scene because we already know it took him MINUTES to arrive on the scene. Almost every mass shooting we have seen in the last year was over in a matter of minutes.

Now we know Derek's suggestion wont work because at a school it takes the security guard minutes to get to the shooting. Many mass shootings are over in a matter of minutes. Then all we got is dead kids but at least we had someone there to shoot the guy after he was done eh killing all those kids eh? Time to get rid of guns that can kill that many kids in the time it takes a security guard to get to the shooter.

An M-16’s true sustained rate of fire, is south of 50 rounds per minute, and that’s the actual assault rifle…….The AR-15, it’s civilian cousin, is south of that number, but a AR-15, being a semi-auto,

also shares the same rate of fire as these guns:

And you say you’re a gun owner………Clearly not a legal gun owner in Canada, fore if that where the case, you’d have been required to take a RCMP sponsored safety course which covers various firearms actions.

[Guest Derek L]

They are trained to deal with the situation though Derek. They spend much training in different situations and how to deal with them. It is more then just they know which way to shoot. They know when to shoot, they know who to shoot, they know when not to shoot, they extensive metal testing, background checks and so on. There is a difference between police officers and just regular people with guns.

The RCMP, as demonstrated by the link I've posted (And I already know since I shoot with several members in my club) receive ~60 hours of firearms training, and that includes "different situation simulations".

[Guest Derek L]

The officer wasn't on duty that day. Other security did not wand the students and the metal detectors weren't working. Again there would have been no need for a gun and the whole thing could have been prevented with out anyone getting shot if they just used the tools that were already at the school.

But you said they didn't want to "wand people"........How do they "wand people" if the tool is broken?

Also, after "wanding" a person, if you find a gun, then what if said officer/guard is unarmed?

[punked]

An M-16’s true sustained rate of fire, is south of 50 rounds per minute, and that’s the actual assault rifle…….The AR-15, it’s civilian cousin, is south of that number, but a AR-15, being a semi-auto,

also shares the same rate of fire as these guns:

And you say you’re a gun owner………Clearly not a legal gun owner in Canada, fore if that where the case, you’d have been required to take a RCMP sponsored safety course which covers various firearms actions.

Yes we agree having a gun that shoots 500 rounds in a minute is silly. I can maybe get off 20 with my bolt action. Plenty for me, I don't need a gun where I can kill everyone in sight even before a good gun with a gun could get on scene.

[punked]

But you said they didn't want to "wand people"........How do they "wand people" if the tool is broken?

Also, after "wanding" a person, if you find a gun, then what if said officer/guard is unarmed?

Prevention. You are not going to bring a gun to execute someone at school like happened here if you know you are going to be caught with it. I agree though even this wanding wouldn't stop a mass shooting at a school the shooter would just go for the security first. I agree security is not going to stop a mass shooting.

[punked]

Even fox news has had with the NRA. WOW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAaxexi53zg&feature=player_embedded

[Guest Derek L]

Yes we agree having a gun that shoots 500 rounds in a minute is silly. I can maybe get off 20 with my bolt action. Plenty for me, I don't need a gun where I can kill everyone in sight even before a good gun with a gun could get on scene.

No I don't agree.........500 rounds in two minutes is getting into crew serviced weapons, also requiring a possible barrel change........And yes, a bolt action SMLE will easily fire 30 plus rounds a minute when combined with stripper clips………The contrast between a SMLE and a M-16/AR-15, is if the shooter can hit anything…….It all comes back to the person pulling the trigger, not the actual gun.

[Guest Derek L]

Even fox news has had with the NRA. WOW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAaxexi53zg&feature=player_embedded

I just watched the interview on the Network...........I’ll say it again, and echo the NRA and Gabby Giffords husband (He was interviewed earlier), what good are background checks if the mentally ill are not put in the FBI database?

[punked]

No I don't agree.........500 rounds in two minutes is getting into crew serviced weapons, also requiring a possible barrel change........And yes, a bolt action SMLE will easily fire 30 plus rounds a minute when combined with stripper clips………The contrast between a SMLE and a M-16/AR-15, is if the shooter can hit anything…….It all comes back to the person pulling the trigger, not the actual gun.

Thats fine we can talk about awesome guns later. What I am saying is if someone can walk into a school and kill everyone in it in the 5 minutes it takes the security to get to the place the shooter is whats the point? They wont stop anything. Although if we took guns like that off the street maybe we could save some lives.

Know what Mark Kelly said at the congressional hearing that was just had? If you don't you should watch.

[punked]

I just watched the interview on the Network...........I’ll say it again, and echo the NRA and Gabby Giffords husband (He was interviewed earlier), what good are background checks if the mentally ill are not put in the FBI database?

What good are background checks when 50% of all guns in America bought are bought within a loophole that the NRA refuses to close? The gun show loop hole makes it so half of gun bought in America aren't subject to background checks. To bad people are against universal background checks eh Derek?

[Guest Derek L]

Prevention. You are not going to bring a gun to execute someone at school like happened here if you know you are going to be caught with it. I agree though even this wanding wouldn't stop a mass shooting at a school the shooter would just go for the security first. I agree security is not going to stop a mass shooting.

Caught with it by who? A unarmed teacher or a armed police officer………..As to the shooter going after the armed officer, perhaps in some cases, but the dictum taught to police and military is the “Force Continuum”, in which the first rule is physical presence……….The sole school cop might end said incident or act solely as a way to slow said shooter allowing further police to arrive and school staff to evacuate students.

[Guest Derek L]

Thats fine we can talk about awesome guns later. What I am saying is if someone can walk into a school and kill everyone in it in the 5 minutes it takes the security to get to the place the shooter is whats the point? They wont stop anything. Although if we took guns like that off the street maybe we could save some lives.

Know what Mark Kelly said at the congressional hearing that was just had? If you don't you should watch.

And you would prefer waiting 15-20 minutes for police to arrive?

Do you know what the effects would look like in a crowded classroom if a shooter was using a shotgun with 00 buck, similar to the one used by Obama in his picture?