First nations patiences waning

NativeCharm · January 4, 2013

For some reason, some of them don't want to move on and look towards the future.

Now lets discus " some of them"...do you mean the ones living in the bush, the city, or the town? We are just learning ourselves about these differences amongst ourselves.

Smallc · January 4, 2013

You do know when the last residential school closed, i hope.

Those schools did not operate the same as the earlier ones, and you know that. They were much more voluntary.

I disagree. Their treatment by Canada was as bad as anywhere. However, how long should people hang on to that in modern society? Does it help matters, or make them worse? When should people get on with healing themselves and move on? Healing is not going to come from the government.

Their treatment wasn't good, but it certainly was nothing compared to what happened pretty much everywhere south of here.

Smallc · January 4, 2013

I agree. Healing has to occur on both sides. You will find that most Native people are striving and thriving to move forward. Most with an open mind, especially those that live in urban centres.

Are they really? I don't see it. Some, maybe, but still too much of the way forward is rooted in the past.

Oh I don't know, I'm pretty sure the viatnamese who fled south Vietnam on rafts have some pretty good horror stories of their own along with e Ukrainians during the Mongol invasion.

Or the jews or the Mayans or....yeah....

Now lets discus " some of them"...do you mean the ones living in the bush, the city, or the town? We are just learning ourselves about these differences amongst ourselves.

You're just learning that people of different cultures and upbringings have different attitudes?

NativeCharm · January 4, 2013

Now lets discus " some of them"...do you mean the ones living in the bush, the city, or the town? We are just learning ourselves about these differences amongst ourselves.

I think that could be some of the confusion and concern behind bill c-45, is because of the federal/provincial "shift" of repsonsibilities. Native communities are complex and will no longer be forced to move around at the corrupt will of the corporations and the ever convenient changing without consult- harper laws. The environment, the air, THE WATER also can no longer adapt to these un natural super powers. Do you understand what we are trying to say?

is it that hard to see why its simply 'not the same'? Human lifestyle in general has to change. Natural laws need to dominate all of our societies, our planet can not sustain at this rate much longer. So some of you need to get off the backs of the Indigenous peoples and get behind some of the traditional concepts. Help create the kind of legislation that can bring us all the kind of harmony we seek.

Sustainable economy, sustainable environment.

You bet it can end up in a fight for land, and in the blink of an eye. Legal, moral, physical, who knows. But if you cant sense the urgency and tension in the air then you havent really done your history homework. I assure you, and you can research it yourself, there is a powerful global movement to sustain the planet and it is getting stronger, faster. I must say...it's a wonderful thing to watch unfold. Interesting times, indeed.

I guess you could say #IdleNOmore is like a Native version of Omnibus.

While you all rip apart my comments, please keep in mind...I am not a political expert and in no way a legal expert. I am a community person that cares.

NativeCharm · January 4, 2013

one of my favourite videos so far.

NativeCharm · January 4, 2013

You're just learning that people of different cultures and upbringings have different attitudes?

No I meant how we are affected differently.

Smallc · January 4, 2013

You see, it's like this. For me there is no difference between people. Where your ancestors were born, what colour you are, what your background is....all rather irrelevant. The fact that people today still want to be treated differently is a concept that escapes me, and it's an attitude that I can't accept. The goals of idle no more are really at odds with that or modern society. Peace, prosperity, equality. Those will not be achieved through new recognition of separate rights in separate communities. There is only one real way forward.

Bryan · January 4, 2013

We've had our culture taken away, yet commodditized, our children murdered, stolen and sold, our language forbidden, our customs practically relinquished, and our spirituality outlawed...and you really think trying assmilating us is going to allow us to live in peace and harmony in a cultural mosaic? Do you know what year we were allowed to vote? Do you know what year we were allowed to have a bank account? We are just now gaining and barely allowed to have any opportunities for economical prosperity, yet reluctantlly watch our lands and water get stripped away into a blackness of nothing.

Our roots and identity are connected to the land and its history. The sooner more people accept and respect that, the closer we get to harmony.

That was then, this is now. If you want to live off the land, be one with nature, explore your culture, etc, etc, have at it. No one will stop you.

How many aboriginal leaders are actually asking for that though? Compared to the ones who keep asking for more money, or who blame other people for the conditions on their reserves?

NativeCharm · January 4, 2013

You dont get it because I think you choose not too. You're missing it. Completely. Youre entitled to your opinion, your view and thats nice that you have one but i hope to hell you never lead this country. Please step aside and sit back down. In fact, get to the back of the Omnibus and keep supporting your go nowhere mentality. It is not even close to a reality. Native nations did not perservere this long under duress only to accept full colonization now. Every other possible outcome will occur before that, guaranteed. Real talk. I find it very sad that you cant even hold the thought of traditional values, even for a brief consideration. You wont even attempt to understand the goals of Idle No More, so dont even bother bringing it up.

NativeCharm · January 4, 2013

That was then, this is now. If you want to live off the land, be one with nature, explore your culture, etc, etc, have at it. No one will stop you.

How many aboriginal leaders are actually asking for that though? Compared to the ones who keep asking for more money, or who blame other people for the conditions on their reserves?

As ive mentioned mentioned before, some live in the bush, some in towns and some in urban centres. Many that live in the city and spend their off time back in their home territory and most of those retire with the land. Each nation under each treaty is different. Do you know why and who is asking fo rmoney? or are you assuming everyone is standing there with their hand out??? You're assuming that arent you, I can tell.

Smallc · January 4, 2013

You dont get it because I think you choose not too.

Well, that's because you're right. I don't want to think in those kind of racial terms. I refuse to.

You're missing it. Completely.

No, you are.

Youre entitled to your opinion, your view and thats nice that you have one but i hope to hell you never lead this country.

I would surmise that at least two people with my view have led this country in recent times (Chretien and Harper).

Please step aside and sit back down.

Why, because you don't like what I have to say?

In fact, get to the back of the Omnibus and keep supporting your go nowhere mentality.

You are completely missing the point. You are also completely divorced from reality on this issue because....

It is not even close to a reality. Native nations did not perservere this long under duress only to accept full colonization now.

....'full colonization,' as you put it, happened a long time ago. Canada exists and will continue to exist. There are not very many better places that you could ask to be born in circa 2013 (7 apparently).

Every other possible outcome will occur before that, guaranteed. Real talk. I find it very sad that you cant even hold the thought of traditional values, even for a brief consideration. You wont even attempt to understand the goals of Idle No More, so dont even bother bringing it up.

As I said, I refuse to think in the racial terms that you do. I find them disappointing.

NativeCharm · January 4, 2013

As I said, I refuse to think in the racial terms that you do. I find them disappointing.

Brace yourself, you're going to be very disappointed by decolonization without discrimination.

Smallc · January 4, 2013

Brace yourself, you're going to be very disappointed by decolonization without discrimination.

Yeah, don't hold your breath.

Bryan · January 4, 2013

As ive mentioned mentioned before, some live in the bush, some in towns and some in urban centres. Many that live in the city and spend their off time back in their home territory and most of those retire with the land. Each nation under each treaty is different. Do you know why and who is asking fo rmoney? or are you assuming everyone is standing there with their hand out??? You're assuming that arent you, I can tell.

Not everyone is holding out their hand, no. But that is ALL that the Idle No More movement is about. Certainly all that Ms. Spence is about at least. All of the other supposed issues are non starters. Everything else can be solved to the letter of the treaties by just going away and doing what you want to.

Canuckistani · January 4, 2013

As part of the deal with De Beers, $325-million in contracts have been funnelled through solely owned or joint-owned companies based on Attawapiskat since construction started in 2006. Attawapiskat Resources Inc. currently has contracts to provide catering, dynamite and helicopter services to Victor. However, despite all that business flowing through ARI, the band’s accounts suggest just it has made just $99,867 in profits since its inception.

http://fullcomment.n...only-go-so-far/

Yes, but Attawapiskat only made 100,000 profit on that 325 million, so they obviously got cheated by the white man somewhere along the way.

WIP · January 4, 2013

lmao@ Chretien!!! oh goodness. I'm starting to lose hope here guys. You dont really want an insiders view here, do you?

Yes, I don't think Chretien's philosophy about federalism was very far off of his mentor - Pierre Trudeau's view that all lands claims be settled with the end goal of ending any nation status of Aboriginal bands, with the full assimilation of all Aboriginals as Canadian citizens. Trudeau was not only opposed to Quebec nationalism, he was against any separate national identities existing in Canada, including natives. Chretien was just a little more cautious than Trudeau about his choice of words, but his core beliefs about federalism were the same as Trudeau's.

Bryan · January 4, 2013

That's one of the very few things that I agreed with Trudeau about. We all are just Canadians. This whole concept that there's this "nation" and that "nation" is complete B.S.

WIP · January 4, 2013

You see, it's like this. For me there is no difference between people. Where your ancestors were born, what colour you are, what your background is....all rather irrelevant. The fact that people today still want to be treated differently is a concept that escapes me, and it's an attitude that I can't accept. The goals of idle no more are really at odds with that or modern society. Peace, prosperity, equality. Those will not be achieved through new recognition of separate rights in separate communities. There is only one real way forward.

typical right wing trope! that our individual identities should only matter, and there are no group identities. It's the same bullshit story given to blacks in the U.S. by rightwingers....who also claim to be colorblind....but somehow manage to tailor voter "fraud" legislation that somehow manages to strike large numbers of blacks off the voter rolls....I wonder how that is possible with all of those colorblind Republicans!

As long as people are attacked or marginalized as groups in a society, they have a group identity, even if they would rather not have to deal with it themselves and just be treated like everyone else. Sometimes it's not an option!

I mentioned previously that the history of Canada, specifically British North America, was one of dealing with the natives often from a position of weakness, especially prior to the American Revolution, when large numbers of United Empire Loyalists crossed over into Upper and Lower Canada, to bolster European numbers. After the English strengthened their hand through immigration and force of arms, the policy became one of assimilation and ignoring any treaties signed previously. Even though the boarding schools and other attempts at forced assimilation have failed and been scrapped, there still seems to be a collective ethos to just ignore these issues until there's a blockade or some other major incident in the news. If I was a cynic, I would have to conclude that the Government doesn't want to settle any claims until they can get a full appraisal of unexploited resources still in the ground, and land expropriated for pipelines and tar sands tailing ponds before they settle land claims.

WIP · January 4, 2013

That's one of the very few things that I agreed with Trudeau about. We all are just Canadians. This whole concept that there's this "nation" and that "nation" is complete B.S.

How about there's this civil war, this terrorist attack, this uprising etc.....would that be a better alternative?

WIP · January 4, 2013

We've had our culture taken away, yet commodditized, our children murdered, stolen and sold, our language forbidden, our customs practically relinquished, and our spirituality outlawed...and you really think trying assmilating us is going to allow us to live in peace and harmony in a cultural mosaic? Do you know what year we were allowed to vote? Do you know what year we were allowed to have a bank account? We are just now gaining and barely allowed to have any opportunities for economical prosperity, yet reluctantlly watch our lands and water get stripped away into a blackness of nothing.

Our roots and identity are connected to the land and its history. The sooner more people accept and respect that, the closer we get to harmony.

Read this article and then talk to me.

http://www2.macleans...-on-idlenomore/

Native North Americans who are still close to the land, and those who are still living anything close to the land in the rest of the world, would be wise not to jump head first into modernity anyway; because all of this grand civilization that so many are thumping their chests about here, is falling apart at this very moment.

Modern civilization has been like a voracious fire burning everything in its path and leaving nothing but ruins; since our present economy has to grow to stay alive, and keep consuming more and more energy and resources to maintain itself. The party is going to come to an end at some point, and a new, steady state economy that is built on sustainable living practices is going to be the only way the human race has a future on this earth. And we better hope that there are still people out there who know how to live off the land. A lot of old skills will have to be rediscovered by many people as energy becomes more expensive, and food needs to be grown locally again.

WIP · January 4, 2013

Do you know that for sure? How much money does she make? how many politicians do they have? How much money does it receive?

Simple rule: if Ezra Levant's mouth is moving, he's lying!

Bryan · January 4, 2013

typical right wing trope! that our individual identities should only matter, and there are no group identities. It's the same bullshit story given to blacks in the U.S. by rightwingers....who also claim to be colorblind....but somehow manage to tailor voter "fraud" legislation that somehow manages to strike large numbers of blacks off the voter rolls....I wonder how that is possible with all of those colorblind Republicans!

Yeah! Damn those Republicans for freeing the slaves, obviously that was some sort of hidden racist agenda!

How about there's this civil war, this terrorist attack, this uprising etc.....would that be a better alternative?

Those all come from the same idea, a misplaced notion that they're somehow special, and that the laws of the land don't apply to them. We're all Canadians, the same rules apply to all of us.

Simple rule: if Ezra Levant's mouth is moving, he's lying!

Proof?

Ezra is exceptionally diligent about fact checking. He usually shows the raw sources on screen while he's talking.

Smallc · January 4, 2013

typical right wing trope! that our individual identities should only matter, and there are no group identities.

Group identities shouldn't matter. Not when we're determining rights and status. I don't think Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. would be in favour of different status for different groups.

It's the same bullshit story given to blacks in the U.S. by rightwingers....who also claim to be colorblind....but somehow manage to tailor voter "fraud" legislation that somehow manages to strike large numbers of blacks off the voter rolls....I wonder how that is possible with all of those colorblind Republicans!

WTF does that have to do with anything I said?

As long as people are attacked or marginalized as groups in a society, they have a group identity, even if they would rather not have to deal with it themselves and just be treated like everyone else. Sometimes it's not an option!

But aboriginal people are not asking to be treated like everyone else. That's the point I'm making.

If I was a cynic, I would have to conclude that the Government doesn't want to settle any claims until they can get a full appraisal of unexploited resources still in the ground, and land expropriated for pipelines and tar sands tailing ponds before they settle land claims.

That must be why the Harper government has settled more claims than any other government in history. Facts are rather important.