Hudson Jones Posted November 27, 2012 Report Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that it was Obama who was behind the pressure on Israel. That there is no way Israel would voluntarily agree to a ceasefire. Not at that point in the conflict and not under those conditions. This is a ceasefire that has given Hamas legitimacy. Something Israel has done everything in its power to not allow to happen. Despite receiving praise and credit, I just don't see Morsi having that much sway and power to pull off something like that. Maybe Obama believes in Morsi and believes he will bring real change to a long running corrupt system in Egypt and the Middle East. Maybe Morsi is the partner that U.S. has been missing and has been unwilling to find in the past. Maybe Morsi's recent power grab is part of a plan to prevent the old regime from sabotaging a change in the constitution and it's all for the greater good. Maybe this is all part of Obama's master plan to finally be the only president who is able to break the vicious cycle. Just maybe. Edited November 28, 2012 by Hudson Jones Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Guest Posted November 28, 2012 Report Posted November 28, 2012 Hey, I'm a glass half full type of guy. I hope you're right. I suspect that the truth is more sinister when it comes to Morsi though. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted November 28, 2012 Report Posted November 28, 2012 I always trust a guy that gives himself sweeping dictatorial powers. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dre Posted November 28, 2012 Report Posted November 28, 2012 The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that it was Obama who was behind the pressure on Israel. That there is no way Israel would voluntarily agree to a ceasefire. Not at that point in the conflict and not under those conditions. This is a ceasefire that has given Hamas legitimacy. I dont think Israel was necessarily against a cease fire. They know as well as anyone that was not a hell of a lot they were going to accomplish with a prolonged military action. They know they have strengthened their enemies every single time they have tried anything like this. This was a political statement to Israelis before an election not something any really thought would have lasting tactical or strategic value. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Hudson Jones Posted November 28, 2012 Author Report Posted November 28, 2012 Here is a wonderful analysis of the situation by Norman Finkelstein. He goes over pretty much everything from, the reason why Israel attacked, Hamas' part, Egypt, Obama, Netanyahu, Iron Dome and Israel's limited options in a new environment. Here is an excerpt: If Israel’s latest rampage proved less lethal by comparison, it was because of unprecedented political constraints imposed on it: - Turkey and Egypt made abundantly clear that they would not sit idly by if Israel launched a repeat performance of OCL. From early on, both drew a red line at an Israeli ground assault. Although now officially denied, it was reliably reported at the time that Obama, no doubt prodded by these key regional actors, counselled Israel not to invade. - Israel had hanging over its head the Goldstone Report. It managed to elude, the first time around, prosecution at the International Criminal Court and the exercise by several countries of universal jurisdiction for its war crimes and crimes against humanity. But the second time it might not be so fortunate. - Gaza was swarming with foreign reporters. Before OCL, Israel had sealed Gaza shut from the outside world with the cooperation of Hosni Mubarak’s Egypt. In the initial phase of the onslaught, Israel enjoyed a near-total monopoly on media coverage. But now, journalists could freely enter Gaza and credibly report Israeli atrocities in real-time. Link Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Guest Posted November 29, 2012 Report Posted November 29, 2012 There should be some serious prosecutions at the International Criminal Court of Hamas then, for all the human shield stuff. I'll look forward to that. Should be any time now... Quote
punked Posted November 29, 2012 Report Posted November 29, 2012 There should be some serious prosecutions at the International Criminal Court of Hamas then, for all the human shield stuff. I'll look forward to that. Should be any time now... No there wont be. Know why? Because your side refuses to accept Palestine as a member because that would bring them one step closer to statehood. There wont because of your opinion. How misinformed are you anyway? You hold opinions that make the points you make impossible then use those impossibilities you justify to act like they are the reason you have your opinion. You chase your tail all day because you refuse to look into the reason why things happen. Quote
dre Posted November 29, 2012 Report Posted November 29, 2012 No there wont be. Know why? Because your side refuses to accept Palestine as a member because that would bring them one step closer to statehood. There wont because of your opinion. How misinformed are you anyway? You hold opinions that make the points you make impossible then use those impossibilities you justify to act like they are the reason you have your opinion. You chase your tail all day because you refuse to look into the reason why things happen. On the bright side this question exposes people who want to see the conflict go on forever. Canada used to pretend it was in favor of a two state solution, now it wont be able to do that any more. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Guest Posted November 29, 2012 Report Posted November 29, 2012 No there wont be. Know why? Because your side refuses to accept Palestine as a member because that would bring them one step closer to statehood. There wont because of your opinion. How misinformed are you anyway? You hold opinions that make the points you make impossible then use those impossibilities you justify to act like they are the reason you have your opinion. You chase your tail all day because you refuse to look into the reason why things happen. No, it looks like the vote will pass, yes? So will we see some Hamas members in the dock? Same rules would apply, wouldn't they? Quote
bleeding heart Posted November 29, 2012 Report Posted November 29, 2012 No, it looks like the vote will pass, yes? So will we see some Hamas members in the dock? Same rules would apply, wouldn't they? Certainly. But as with the Israelis, it will not account for past crimes, only future ones, is my understanding. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
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