A newer religion simply an opportunistic convenience?

[Guest Peeves]

or co existing others. Some simply borrowed aspects of others. Some are stand alone perhaps like perhaps Scientology (if you accept it as a religion.)

Now Judaism took from other religions as did Christianity, but I think Islam took from both.

I read of prior religions with virgin birth, that Hot Cross buns were originally made as fertility symbols for pagans..one slit. That similar miracles appear in earlier religions.

What puzzles me that knowing what has gone before (and assuming 'they' do), how can anyone believe the similarities are revelations unto their beliefs?

http://www.nairaland...r-virgin-births

Are previous virgin births, and the like simply discounted or just taken as enlightenment that dismisses what has gone before.

http://wiki.answers....eistic_Religion

Despite the anti-biblical historical reconstructions of Julius Wellhausen and others regarding the history of Israel this theory now has been thoroughly refuted by the discoveries of archaeology.

In particular the evolutionary presuppositions regarding the evolution of the religion of Israel have been shown to be the opposite of reality and not just in the history of Israel. Even the religion of Egypt is shown to have degenerated from a more monotheistic religion into polytheism and so the general trend is quite the opposite of what the theory contends.

The Bible record in fact shows that there existed knowledge of the one true God right from the beginning of Israel as a nation beginning with Abraham and continuing right through Moses and the entire history of the nation. What is clearly seen is that the undoubted involvement of Israel in the practice of polytheism is viewed as an aberration and a departure from the original monotheism.

Summary:

The evidence from both archaeology and the Bible in particular is that Israel went from monotheism into polytheism and not the other way around.

I think it was just a convenience at times to create a new religion..Islam as a good example.

[Sleipnir]

All religions has to start somewhere, whether it was 3,000 years ago or 60 years ago like Scientology.

[betsy]

I understand what you're saying. There are similarities - like virgin births, great floods, etc.., - from some other religion. So for a non-believer, it is a legitimate question to ask: how do you know yours is the true religion?

One big answer to that is The Bible. It is unique. Reference topic, The Bible, for explanations and listed facts.

It also has the prophecies that had come true.

] [/b] Fulfilled Prophecy: Evidence for the Reliability of the Bible

August 22, 2003

Unique among all books ever written, the Bible accurately foretells specific events-in detail-many years, sometimes centuries, before they occur. Approximately 2500 prophecies appear in the pages of the Bible, about 2000 of which already have been fulfilled to the letter—no errors.

(The remaining 500 or so reach into the future and may be seen unfolding as days go by.) Since the probability for any one of these prophecies having been fulfilled by chance averages less than one in ten (figured very conservatively) and since the prophecies are for the most part independent of one another, the odds for all these prophecies having been fulfilled by chance without error is less than one in 10²⁰⁰⁰ (that is 1 with 2000 zeros written after it)!

God is not the only one, however, who uses forecasts of future events to get people's attention. Satan does, too. Through clairvoyants (such as Jeanne Dixon and Edgar Cayce), mediums, spiritists, and others, come remarkable predictions, though rarely with more than about 60 percent accuracy, never with total accuracy. Messages from Satan, furthermore, fail to match the detail of Bible prophecies, nor do they include a call to repentance.

The acid test for identifying a prophet of God is recorded by Moses in Deuteronomy 18:21-22. According to this Bible passage (and others), God's prophets, as distinct from Satan's spokesmen, are 100 percent accurate in their predictions. There is no room for error.

More...

http://www.reasons.o...ty-of-the-bible

Edited October 28, 2012 by betsy

[cybercoma]

The Bible isn't unique at all. There's a bunch of different versions of it. Jews use a huge chunk of it. Some of the Koran is based on it. It certainly isn't unique.

[Sleipnir]

how do you know yours is the true religion?

One big answer to that is The Bible. It is unique. Reference topic, The Bible, for explanations and listed facts.

It also has the prophecies that had come true.

I don't believe the author asked 'which religion is true'. Though no one religion can be true because there are more than one activities that can fall under the definition of 'religion''.

[betsy]

Still on about prophecies in the Bible, excerpt from the article...

Mathematical Probability that Jesus is the Christ

The science of probability attempts to determine the chance that a given event will occur. The value and accuracy of the science of probability has been well established beyond doubt - for example, insurance rates are fixed according to statistical probabilities.

Professor Emeritus of Science at Westmont College, Peter Stoner, has calculated the probability of one man fulfilling the major prophecies made concerning the Messiah. The estimates were worked out by twelve different classes representing some 600 university students.

The students carefully weighed all the factors, discussed each prophecy at length, and examined the various circumstances which might indicate that men had conspired together to fulfill a particular prophecy. They made their estimates conservative enough so that there was finally unanimous agreement even among the most skeptical students.

However Professor Stoner then took their estimates, and made them even more conservative. He also encouraged other skeptics or scientists to make their own estimates to see if his conclusions were more than fair. Finally, he submitted his figures for review to a committee of the American Scientific Affiliation. Upon examination, they verified that his calculations were dependable and accurate in regard to the scientific material presented (Peter Stoner, Science Speaks, Chicago: Moody Press, 1969, 4).

For example, concerning Micah 5:2, where it states the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem Ephrathah, Stoner and his students determined the average population of BETHLEHEM from the time of Micah to the present; then they divided it by the average population of the earth during the same period.

They concluded that the chance of one man being born in Bethlehem was one in 300,000, (or one in 2.8 x 10^5 - rounded),

After examining only eight different prophecies (Idem, 106), they conservatively estimated that the chance of one man fulfilling all eight prophecies was one in 10^17.

To illustrate how large the number 10^17 IS (a figure with 17 zeros), Stoner gave this illustration :

If you mark one of ten tickets, and place all the tickets in a hat, and thoroughly stir them, and then ask a blindfolded man to draw one, his chance of getting the right ticket is one in ten. Suppose that we take 10^17 silver dollars and lay them on the face of Texas. They'll cover all of the state two feet deep. Now mark one of these silver dollars and stir the whole mass thoroughly, all over the state. Blindfold a man and tell him that he can travel as far as he wishes, but he must pick up one silver dollar and say that this is the right one. What chance would he have of getting the right one? Just the same chance that the prophets would've had of writing these eight prophecies and having them all come true in any one man, from their day to the present time, providing they wrote them in their own wisdom (Idem, 106-107).

In financial terms, is there anyone who would not invest in a financial venture if the chance of failure were only one in 10^17? This is the kind of sure investment we're offered by god for faith in His Messiah.

From these figures, Professor Stoner, concludes the fulfillment of these eight prophecies alone proves that God inspired the writing of the prophecies (Idem, 107) - the likelihood of mere chance is only one in 10^17!

Another way of saying this is that any person who minimizes or ignores the significance of the biblical identifying signs concerning the Messiah would be foolish.

But, of course, there are many more than eight prophecies. In another calculation, Stoner used 48 prophecies (Idem, 109) (even though he could have used Edersheim's 456), and arrived at the extremely conservative estimate that the probability of 48 prophecies being fulfilled in one person is the incredible number 10^157. In fact, if anybody can find someone, living or dead, other than Jesus, who can fulfill only half of the predictions concerning the Messiah given in the book "Messiah in Both Testaments" by Fred J. Meldau, the Christian Victory Publishing Company is ready to give a ONE thousand dollar reward! As apologist Josh McDowell says, "There are a lot of men in the universities that could use some extra cash!" (Josh McDowell, Evidence that Demands a Verdict, California: Campus Crusade for Christ, 175).

How large is the number one in 10^157? 10^157 contains 157 zeros! Stoner gives an illustration of this number using electrons. Electrons are very small objects. They're smaller than atoms. It would take 2.5 TIMES 10^15 of them, laid side by side, to make one inch. Even if we counted 250 of these electrons each minute, and counted day and night, it would still take 19 million years just to count a line of electrons one-inch long (Stoner, op. cit, 109).

With this introduction, let's go back to our chance of one in 10^157. Let's suppose that we're taking this number of electrons, marking one, and thoroughly stirring it into the whole mass, then blindfolding a man and letting him try to find the right one. What chance has he of finding the right one? What kind of a pile will this number of electrons make? They make an inconceivably large volume.

This is the result from considering a mere 48 prophecies. Obviously, the probability that 456 prophecies would be fulfilled in one man by chance is vastly smaller. According to Emile Borel, once one goes past one chance in 10^50, the probabilities are so small that it is impossible to think that they will ever occur (Ankerberg et. al., op. cit., 21).

As Stoner concludes, 'Any man who rejects Christ as the Son of God is rejecting a fact, proved perhaps more absolutely than any other fact in the world (Stoner, op. cit., 112).'

God so thoroughly vindicated Jesus Christ that even mathematicians and statisticians, who were without faith, had to acknowledge that it is scientifically impossible to deny that Jesus is the Christ. our thanks to David Williams, a mathematician who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/radio034.htm

[betsy]

I don't believe the author asked 'which religion is true'. Though no one religion can be true because there are more than one activities that can fall under the definition of 'religion''.

I was responding to this:

Peeves:

What puzzles me that knowing what has gone before (and assuming 'they' do), how can anyone believe the similarities are revelations unto their beliefs?

But perhaps it's best that I create a separate topic for prophecies?

Edited October 28, 2012 by betsy

[Sleipnir]

I don't see what the purpose of the probability that Jesus existed has anything to do with the topic of this thread?

Edited October 28, 2012 by Sleipnir