Most Israeli Jews would support apartheid regime in Israel

[Bonam]

Ditto. I don't think I've ever called any poster anti-semite.

I think I once applied that term to lictor, and once to someone else (forget who it was), both after their blatant and repeated inferences of blood libel against Jews.

[Guest American Woman]

I think I once applied that term to lictor, and once to someone else (forget who it was), both after their blatant and repeated inferences of blood libel against Jews.

Sometimes the shoe fits - and I don't doubt that it fit lictor perfectly.

[bud]

Sometimes the shoe fits - and I don't doubt that it fit lictor perfectly.

exactly. when the shoe fits and you are able to cite how it fits, then it makes sense. this is why it's okay to call you a hasbara bot.

are you going to admit that international law, which created israel, states that the refugees should be dealt with or are you going to avoid accepting this fact like hasbara bots usually do?

[Bonam]

International law didn't create Israel

[bud]

International law didn't create Israel

what created israel? pixie dust from the bible?

[Bonam]

The same thing that created any other country. The physical presence of a group of people that wanted to exist as a sovereign nation, and their ability to assert this in the face of those who would deny them that right.

[bud]

The same thing that created any other country. The physical presence of a group of people that wanted to exist as a sovereign nation, and their ability to assert this in the face of those who would deny them that right.

no.

on november 29, 1947, the united nations general assembly voted 33 to 13, with 10 abstentions, in favour of a partition plan that created the state of israel.

Edited November 3, 2012 by bud

[bud]

regarding international law and the refugees and their right of return:

• The General Assembly, Having considered further the situation in Palestine ... Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible." -UN General Assembly Resolution 194 (11 December 1948)
  
• United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3236 which "reaffirms also the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return".
  

• Resolution 242 from the UN affirms the necessity for "achieving a just settlement of the refugee problem."
  

[Bonam]

no.

on november 29, 1947, the united nations general assembly voted 33 to 13, with 10 abstentions, in favour of a partition plan that created the state of israel.

And what happened then?

Also, would that vote have happened if there weren't a bunch of Jews already there?

Edited November 3, 2012 by Bonam

[Guest American Woman]

exactly. when the shoe fits and you are able to cite how it fits, then it makes sense. this is why it's okay to call you a hasbara bot.

are you going to admit that international law, which created israel, states that the refugees should be dealt with or are you going to avoid accepting this fact like hasbara bots usually do?

The only response I will be giving your posts referring to me as a hasbara bot from here on in is hitting the report button.

[bud]

And what happened then?

the state of israel was born because international law allowed it to.

so it's settled? the state of israel was created by international law. the same international law that american woman doesn't always agree with. it just happens that it's whenever it criticizes the state of israel and its handling of the palestinian situation.

how do you feel about international law and what it says about the palestinian refugees who were displaced from what is now israel?

[Bonam]

the state of israel was born because international law allowed it to.

so it's settled? the state of israel was created by international law.

[bud]

The only response I will be giving your posts referring to me as a hasbara bot from here on in is hitting the report button.

that's because the only response you could give to me when dealing with the israel/palestinian issue is admitting that i am right and you are wrong.

it's understandable. move along.

[Guest American Woman]

And what happened then?

That's the question - because the answer is what has led to the conflict that exists to this day.

[bud]

That's the question - because the answer is what has led to the conflict that exists to this day.

the original question was about me accepting a 'jewish' state and i answered by saying that israel can call itself whatever it wants after dealing with the palestinian refugee issue which is an obligation they have as according to international law.

- then, you said you don't always agree with international law.

- so then i questioned your selectiveness and hypocrisy by saying, the same international law that created israel.

- you avoided acknowledging your selectiveness, but then,

- bonam came in here saying that israel was not created by international law.

- so i showed him how he was wrong and then, instead of thanking me for teaching him something,

- he decided to avoid acknowledging the obvious and derail the topic by saying "and then what happened?"

- then of course, you decide to make a comment to make it sound like you're still part of the discussion and used the same hasbara bot tactics which i mentioned before:

1) either do not respond and wait for fluff posters like peeves, dogonmufit et al, to make a few posts so you can pretend the post never happened, or

2) avoid discussing them and try to change the discussion by talking about something else,

[dre]

Considering the circumstances, I disagree. Furthermore, it's not for you to determine.

No its not for me to determine, its for Israelis to determine (thus my mention of self determination) But this whole line of thinking that people outside Israel need to recognize Israel as a jewish state is really just a stupid meme. Furthermore I dont know why ANYONE in the west would support such a thing, considering how important its been for us separate religion from government.

I dont support ANY governments being built around religion, I personally think its a really stupid idea. I support SECULAR government. But if the citizens of Israel (arabs, jews, christians, etc) continue to vote for that then thats their perogative.

[dre]

What's your particular version of 1948? Mine included the Arabs rejecting then attacking. Not the other way around. But, then dre will insist the Arab-Israeli conflict is about water rather than the wet dream of a Nazi.

No thats complete lie about my position, which is that water was the main reason for hostilities POST ARMISTICE and the reason CONFLICT: DIRTFARM has dragged on for so long. A position that is fortified by history.

Not to mention the fact that Israelis themselves at the time actually CALLED it that. HaMilhama al HaMaim.

The "War over Water" (Hebrew: המלחמה על המים, HaMilhama al HaMaim), also the Battle over Water (Hebrew: הקרב על המים, HaKrav al HaMaim), refers to a series of confrontations between Israel and its Arab neighbors from November 1964 to May 1967 over control of available water sources in the Jordan River drainage basin.

[dre]

That's the question - because the answer is what has led to the conflict that exists to this day.

No thats objectively false. The current occupation and conflict started in the early 60's over control of the Jordan River drainage basin.

[Guest American Woman]

No its not for me to determine, its for Israelis to determine (thus my mention of self determination) But this whole line of thinking that people outside Israel need to recognize Israel as a jewish state is really just a stupid meme. Furthermore I dont know why ANYONE in the west would support such a thing, considering how important its been for us separate religion from government.

It's been important for us, but everyone doesn't have to have the same ideals. By refusing to recognize Israel as a Jewish state, as Islamic states are recognized for what they are, seems rather biased - to say the least.

I dont support ANY governments being built around religion, I personally think its a really stupid idea.

You don't have to support it. Recognizing it and supporting it are two very different things.

I support SECULAR government. But if the citizens of Israel (arabs, jews, christians, etc) continue to vote for that then thats their perogative.

It's also their prerogative to be a Jewish/Islamic/Anglican et al state.

Edited November 3, 2012 by American Woman

[dre]

You don't have to support it. Recognizing it and supporting it are two very different things.

And neither are necessary.

It's also their prerogative to be a Jewish/Islamic/Anglican et al state.

Yeah.... uhhhh.... that would be exactly what I said.

[Guest American Woman]

And neither are necessary.

That's your opinion - leading us full circle to that's not for you to determine.

Yeah.... uhhhh.... that would be exactly what I said.

I meant to say is that it's also their prerogative to determine whether or not it's necessary to be recognized as a Jewish/Islamic/Anglican et al state.

[DogOnPorch]

No thats complete lie about my position, which is that water was the main reason for hostilities POST ARMISTICE and the reason CONFLICT: DIRTFARM has dragged on for so long. A position that is fortified by history.

Not to mention the fact that Israelis themselves at the time actually CALLED it that. HaMilhama al HaMaim.

See?

[DogOnPorch]

No thats objectively false. The current occupation and conflict started in the early 60's over control of the Jordan River drainage basin.

What part of the Khartoum Resolution deals with the issue of water?

[DogOnPorch]

Interesting news out of the West Bank continues.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/hamas-pm-blasts-palestinian-leader-tv-remarks-17627191#.UJWf8oa3eDA

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/11/03/rejection-of-palestinian-right-to-return-by-mahmoud-abbas-courageous-shimon-peres/

CBC, oddly, has decided not to cover this event.

[bud]

this is typical of the hasbara bots; what is required by international law, which is dealing with the refugee issue, dealing with the illegal growing jewish settlements, the annexation of land in the west bank and east jerusalem, the theft of water, the illegal blockade of gaza and the prevention of the creation of a palestinian state has to take a backseat to the latest foot dragging excuse, "recognize israel as a jewish state".

look at american woman and her antics. look at her throwing her arms in the air, like israel is a victim of injustice! like the focal point of the problem is the lack of recognition of israel as a jewish state.

it's not enough that israel is already created. it's not enough that more land has been allocated to israel since the original partition plan. it's not enough that the PLO has officially recognized israel. it's not enough that the palestinians, in negotiations have accepted compensation and land swap instead of a right of return of the refugees. let's TOTALLY ignore or downplay all the elephants in the room and point at another b.s. reason to drag this ongoing issue, so that israel can continue the status quo.

Edited November 4, 2012 by bud