Ontario Disability

[Jiblethead]

I fully support ODSP for people that are really in need and have a legitimate disability. Some people don't even seem disabled yet they are receiving ODSP. I expect people on ODSP to have had a serious and ongoing injury preventing them working. People on ODSP for depression? Give me a break.

im with you, only problem is they dole out ODSP to anyone with 'mental health issues' like drug addicts, depression, anything.

if you are not able to work, then ya, you deserve it.

[TheNewTeddy]

I have depression. And if I was not on ODSP I'd have committed suicide by now.

Edited October 5, 2012 by TheNewTeddy

[Mr.Canada]

I have depression. And if I was not on ODSP I'd have committed suicide by now.

So giving you $1000 + a month is keeping you from killing yourself? if you're that close to the edge, you don't need money you need to be locked up to protect yourself and others.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Mr.Canada

[TheNewTeddy]

I was locked up, for 3 weeks in 2008.

I've been working since then to get some supports to help me. They are still many months off.

What I need is help finding a job, I need some help getting my foot in the door and getting me "ready" to work. My mental issues go beyond depression, so I need some help looking "presentable".

I am intelligent and very well spoken, but when people see what I look like they have a pre-set impression of me.

I don't want to be on ODSP forever. I'm as bored as %&@* here home all day. I want to be working. My depression and other mental issues prevent that from becoming a reality.

There are others like me too. If you were to eliminate ODSP for people like me, we will not "be forced to find work" we will take a step that is too permanent.

I'm not saying that someone can not fake being like this. I'm not saying there is no fraud. But in all honestly I've just been waiting for this thread to get to this point, because I'd like an answer to a simple question.

People like me. People who would choose death over being 'forced into work by cutting off government support'.

Do we deserve to die?

[Jiblethead]

depression is not a debilitating mental health issue. I get sad and depressed a lot, just looking at what the world is today. This does not prevent me from getting off my ass and getting out into the world and contributing to society.

If you would rather die than be of use to society, go ahead and do us a favor and stop leeching

[login]

ODSP requires a medical review process. It is doctors that determine if people are functionally disabled. The disability adjudication unit uses the informations supplied by the doctors. If you don't think people are really disabled, question the doctors qualifications, don;t question the victims.

People that go through this process can often have their basic rights infringed under the mental health act, they don;t have access to court process because they are deemed mentally unsound.

While I agree with you in part I think you saying it is the disabled people is just plain wrong. If you want to say they are normal you need to insure acts like the mental health act can't be used to deprive these people of the power of attorney and right to informed consent to treatment, and completely remove the court diversion process that removes their right to self representation and the ability to defend themselves in court. The $600 hand out they receive for ther food and other basic needs is a paltry i signifigant sum of money.

Frankly ODSP is a system that is badly broken and benefits are often withheld without grounds by administrative delays, intentional mishandling, and outright lies.

OW provides massively below poverty line re:destitution pay, which withoutaccess to other social programs like social housing and food banks or co-op gardens where available the $500/month will barely pay rent in many cities.

For ODSP the up to ~$12000 per year is well below the poverty line by nearly half.

These people get up to around $12000 to have their constitutional rights removed, such as privacy, choice of medical treatment, right to legal remedy, you don't have a clue how victimized these people are.

Worse the programs themselves have not kept with rising cist of living such as massively increasing food costs.

Edited October 5, 2012 by login

[Guest Peeves]

I was locked up, for 3 weeks in 2008.

I've been working since then to get some supports to help me. They are still many months off.

What I need is help finding a job, I need some help getting my foot in the door and getting me "ready" to work. My mental issues go beyond depression, so I need some help looking "presentable".

I am intelligent and very well spoken, but when people see what I look like they have a pre-set impression of me.

I don't want to be on ODSP forever. I'm as bored as %&@* here home all day. I want to be working. My depression and other mental issues prevent that from becoming a reality.

There are others like me too. If you were to eliminate ODSP for people like me, we will not "be forced to find work" we will take a step that is too permanent.

I'm not saying that someone can not fake being like this. I'm not saying there is no fraud. But in all honestly I've just been waiting for this thread to get to this point, because I'd like an answer to a simple question.

People like me. People who would choose death over being 'forced into work by cutting off government support'.

Do we deserve to die?

Of course not. Our inadequate attention to mental health problems are legend.

Still there is a concern of mine. On occasion I read were someone went off their meds and became violent. We need some control means.

There is nothing to address the circumstances that might occur if a patient goes off their meds.

Suicide being only one of them.

Still, your problem seems to be physically visual as well.

Strange now that we pay for trans-sexual surgery that others can't get help.

My problem with disability programs is about abuse, not the legitimate cases.

When expensive sports shoes, mats are provide, and they have been, it pisses me off, and should others that see real abuse.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Peeves

[login]

Of course not. Our inadequate attention to mental health problems are legend.

Still there is a concern of mine. On occasion I read were someone went off their meds and became violent. We need some control means.

There is nothing to address the circumstances that might occur if a patient goes off their meds.

Suicide being only one of them.

Still, your problem seems to be physically visual as well.

Strange now that we pay for trans-sexual surgery that others can't get help.

My problem with disability programs is about abuse, not the legitimate cases.

When expensive sports shoes, mats are provide, and they have been, it pisses me off, and should others that see real abuse.

Where is the abuse I've known people who have tried to refuse ODSP, you know where they go if they arn't getting that... places like London, or pennetang

and if you wonder why so many are in London, that is where the province ships them instead of jail, they have a mental health facility there where they put people after they remove their constitutional rights.

Most people on ODSP have been manhandled in violation of their basic rights, anyone who has had forced medical injections contrary to their wishes and isn't getting paid afterward for the abuse is someone who needs to get paid, not 12000 a year but millions for the violation and unethical medical practice.

They are treated like cattle.

These arn't criminals they are weird people in a totalitarian world where science rules.

Weird is not mentally fit to mix with the normals, it would be disruptive and force people to be nice and adapt, psychiatrists would be ruined, the 1-2 million a year the doctors make off them and the province would dry up. We can't have that.

Social outcasts and aliens 10k a year

provincially funded torturers and keyholders 1-2 million... who is getting the better deal?

Look how much the diversions for non criminals (re no convictions) and the medical system is costing compared to odsp, who exactly is getting the handout?

The legitimate people??? If you know these people, are you a doctor? If not you have no basis to determine these people to the legislation so you should take your opinion to where it belongs the realm of politics not disability.

Read the legislation.

Drug users are screwed up, you think crack heads are "normal?" do you have any clue how much drugs mess up peoples neurochemistry? The doctors dose up the people to screw them up the other way.. but often they have no clue what the effects will be other than screwing them up and tranquilizing them and making them incapable of doing all too much mentally or physically. That is what these people are going through. This while their liver is being killed.

If you have people abusing and faking provide a case example because it is simply rhetoric you are spouting.

The lawsuits would far outweigh the 10k a year if these people are all just faking. How'd you like to be straped to a bed for a month with a daily needle up your rump cause your just weird? Or in solitare for a month cause you said your doctor was wrong and they were going to hell if they continued to pull that on people.

This program is KGB meets Goebbles

It's a convienent way of removing "weird people's" basic rights such as privacy, financial independence, court access, public respect, as to alienate and disenfranchise to limit their effect on social order and norms to allow for a free and liberal society. It all fits together ODSP is just one way of shelving them off in an orderly fashion.

You are whining about people getting shelter and food to eat and a pittance of daily allowance rich kids get just for being a byproduct of a sexual act.

10,000 a year to live on in a major urban area is eeking out an existence it ain't luxurious. It is a pathetic existence where materialism quickly becomes a secondary pursuit.

If you think its so grand try it for a year -- these people have a lifetime of that, and even if they earn 500 they only earn 100$ if they earn anything under 1000$ a month they only make $100, what incentive is that to work part time? Full time work for people who have disorders is not safe or secure employment and most salaried positions require dependable people which these people generally are not due to recurrence of mental health issues.

This is why I recommend social housing programs matched up with microfit for co-op microfit programs for ODSP to have them perform a social function that does not outwiegh their part time capacities. Nor put burdeon on any single disabled person. Also government managed social housing projects will pay for themselves in ccost savings on private landlord rental costs.

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/f-real-estate-room-rental-roommates-W0QQCatIdZ36

better yet make sure you pick a weird roommate not a normal.

Understand if I tell you you can get 100$ more for working 100 hours per month ($1/hour) or not work what do you pick?

Ok remeber to cap your spending money at $1080 a month deduct anything from that amount if you spend less than 480$ on your shelter example 300$ room deduct 180 so $900 for your housing and food and other costs.

If you still think it is just extravagence -- tell your boss you are a retard and may need time off each week for medical reasons, or that there may be some days you won't be able to think clearly, you may be drowsy, etc.. just wait for that raise -- but rememer to give it to the government if you get it.

People don't choose a social assistance life they have no oher option, the only thing beyond that is street life and with that you are the victim if they survive.

I also advocate for ODSP development programs giving the disabled the option of volunteering in the third world and latin america where cost of living is lower and people won't know they are weird. But right who gets their money.. are there no rooms left, no excess food in Canada for christs sake if you think they can work give them a job or shut up.

The money goes back to utility companies, farmers and landlords - savings are capped at approx 5000 for life.

The program costs as much as 8 bloody doctors makein anyear -- thus is under 20 million a year for the provinces out of fullmtime employment disabled,t they don't get ei, Their doctors are making millions a year on their practices.

Doctors get a kickback, that is the issue. Cut doctors fees out of the process and disability rates will go down. Privatize health into a premium based health insurance plan and disability rates will go down.

Attacking legitimate victims of the system, diagnosed disabled people with long term and permanent disabilities isnjust assinine.

oh and for the send the would be vagrants to jail crowd. 1. no room 2. it costs more.

for the send the weirdo's to the nuthouse crowd

see jail add medical costs

killing them is morally questionable and could result in greater resistance Heir Hitler,

Its a broke system but you need to see it in terms of the total results of doing something not the direct effect. Look at the big picture.

The system is bad but you don't offer improvements or evidence just rhetoric.

Edited October 5, 2012 by login

[jacee]

ZD

I was locked up, for 3 weeks in 2008.

I've been working since then to get some supports to help me. They are still many months off.

What I need is help finding a job, I need some help getting my foot in the door and getting me "ready" to work. My mental issues go beyond depression, so I need some help looking "presentable".

I am intelligent and very well spoken, but when people see what I look like they have a pre-set impression of me.

I don't want to be on ODSP forever. I'm as bored as %&@* here home all day. I want to be working. My depression and other mental issues prevent that from becoming a reality.

There are others like me too. If you were to eliminate ODSP for people like me, we will not "be forced to find work" we will take a step that is too permanent.

I'm not saying that someone can not fake being like this. I'm not saying there is no fraud. But in all honestly I've just been waiting for this thread to get to this point, because I'd like an answer to a simple question.

People like me. People who would choose death over being 'forced into work by cutting off government support'.

Do we deserve to die?

TNT ... with respect ... you might want to keep personal info private, just because there are some real jackasses here who don't comprehend disability as anything beyond physical: I see jiblethead and Mr Canada have launched attacks on you, disgusting attacks. You should take no notice. You don't owe them an explanation. They can understand that someone with disabled legs can't climb a ladder, but they don't comprehend the interference of conditions of the mind with jobs that require clear thought processes.

If you want to share your experiences with others who do understand, try rabble/babble.ca.

For the ignorance of jib and mr c and others:

Clinical depression is not just being sad or 'depressed', as we use the term colloquially. It's much more debilitating than that.

They can google it if they want more info, but it disgusts me that they are so rude about disabilities of the mind: Try working at ANY job when your mind won't focus.

Fortunately, ODSP and doctors do understand.

Wish you well Teddy.

[jacee]

Of course not. Our inadequate attention to mental health problems are legend.

Still there is a concern of mine. On occasion I read were someone went off their meds and became violent. We need some control means.

There is nothing to address the circumstances that might occur if a patient goes off their meds.

Suicide being only one of them.

Still, your problem seems to be physically visual as well.

Strange now that we pay for trans-sexual surgery that others can't get help.

My problem with disability programs is about abuse, not the legitimate cases.

When expensive sports shoes, mats are provide, and they have been, it pisses me off, and should others that see real abuse.

Bad choice of complaint: Going to the gym or working out in some way is part of every recovery program. And it's critically important to physical and mental health.

Maybe the things that piss you off are just things you do not understand.

"Off meds ... " is why training for police in dealing with mental health issues is necessary.

We have a team of inner city police to "clean up" downtown. They're now asking for social workers/ counsellors because the ones 'acting out' aren't criminals ... they're people with addictions, mental health issues, homeless, hungry, etc.

[jacee]

I fully support ODSP for people that are really in need and have a legitimate disability. Some people don't even seem disabled yet they are receiving ODSP. I expect people on ODSP to have had a serious and ongoing injury preventing them working. People on ODSP for depression? Give me a break.

What do you know about it?

Obviously nothing.

[jacee]

depression is not a debilitating mental health issue. I get sad and depressed a lot, just looking at what the world is today. This does not prevent me from getting off my ass and getting out into the world and contributing to society.

If you would rather die than be of use to society, go ahead and do us a favor and stop leeching

EEEWWWWW!!!

What a totally cruel and creepy thing to say.

Seems to me you need a mental health checkup. I suggest you google 'sociopath'.

Edited October 5, 2012 by jacee

[Mr.Canada]

EEEWWWWW!!!

What a totally cruel and creepy thing to say.

Seems to me you need a mental health checkup.

Yes, I agree with you. I don't wish anyone harm self inflicted or otherwise. I do have a problem with people who are sad getting a free ride.

As I said I fully support social services for people who truly need them. if someone has a good reason for not being able to work I do think it's our responsibility to try to give that person some dignity if they are able to live independently. That being said their are certainly people that aren't in need to be on OW or ODSP for the rest of their and aren't actively seeking to get off of it.

Some OCAP people come to mind immediately. If they are throwing things, attacking brave police officers and horses and carrying banners I'm not sure if they are disabled.

Community start up is ending in January so that will save taxpayers a ton of money. $799 a person every 2 years. I'm on the fence about this one though as I do think that at times the start up does help people who are truly in need. Thing is that so many people have abused it and made it bad for everyone. It's too bad that the rules are made for the few bad apples but everyone suffers.

[TheNewTeddy]

I asked the question to make something quite clear - How one defines "needy" is not always the same, and, some see contributing to society as limited to money only.

I've run for office, two times. I made these http://riding-by-riding.blogspot.ca/p/maps.html I maintain this http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=20318 I take care of my cats, I hold doors open for people with packages, I purchase things, so on and so forth. I've also had a full time job from 2005 to the end of 2011, which is when I applied for ODSP.

I do have depression. I know it, my shirnk knows it, my friends know it. I have no desire to hide it from anyone, even people I don't know very well (IE, you guys)

I also have a very good mind for numbers. That blog has math based election projections. It is a system I invented in 2006 that is now used by dozens of others to project elections all over Canada and around the world. I also either created myself, or, had others create from data I gave them, 50%+1 of all Election related articles for Canada on Wikipedia.

There is quite a good chance that once I'm 'better' I will be able to 'contribute' in a very effective way. With 3 years of unfinished University under my belt there's also a good chance that I could end up with a high paying job if I go back to school.

I wanted to see if those on the right (Mr. Canada and Jiblethead) would do one of two things.

Do as Mr. Canada did, and agree that not everything is always as it seems, and while I agree with him that Fraud must be stopped (as it hurts those on and off ODSP), that things are not as black and white as it is easy to make them out to me. Or, see if they'd do with Jiblethead did, and take his argument to the logical conclusion, and tell me to my (online) face that I do not deserve to live because I do not 'contribute'.

It is something I've heard before, and just like then, I don't let it bother me. When I am older and successful I'll get to use these instances in conversations, or if I'm elected, in speeches.

"Did I ever tell you about the time I was down in the dumps? Some people thought I should just off and die!"

edit

I harbour no resentment towards him (FTR) and will continue to debate him as a normal member of the forum. I actually have more respect for him for answering me than trying to dodge the question which is usually what people do. He's done nothing "Reportable", I am not reporting him, and I ask others not report him for anything either.

Edited October 6, 2012 by TheNewTeddy

[Mr.Canada]

Teddy, I appreciate that you're not wanting to stay on ODSP forever but for every one of you I see another 10 who do want to live on ODSP for the duration of their lives. Maybe I just don't understand depression but I don't see how being a little bit sad is grounds for freeloading off the public. Good for you I guess that you've seemingly pulled the wool over everyones eyes and fooled them. You truly are a master of working the system and are no doubt a good candidate for employment by OCAP. I'm sure they'd be interested in your manipulative social engineering skills.

If everyone that was sad sometimes got a government living wage I don't think that we'd have anyone left in the workforce.

I don't know why you label me as being on the right as being a bad thing. Yes, I'm on the right but that doesn't mean I'm not compassionate and would want to do away with valuable social services that provide important support to those people in need. Quite the opposite actually. I just like to make sure that someone is watching the money and not just spending blindly and when money is short raising taxes. So it's prudent to always take inventory and audit which programs are performing well and which aren't. We need to get the best bang for our buck and refocus funds on those good programs when need be.

Having frank discussions about how and where our tax dollars are being spent isn't akin to an attack.

In light of this I will take it upon myself to read about depression and see for myself if it is as debilitating as people seem to think. I still have a hard time wrapping my head around being sad is a disability but if the Charter says it is maybe there's something to it. I'm not trying to belittle or demean you teddy even though it probably looks that way and I'm glad you post on this forum.

[TheNewTeddy]

Teddy, I appreciate that you're not wanting to stay on ODSP forever but for every one of you I see another 10 who do want to live on ODSP for the duration of their lives. Maybe I just don't understand depression but I don't see how being a little bit sad is grounds for freeloading off the public. Good for you I guess that you've seemingly pulled the wool over everyones eyes and fooled them. You truly are a master of working the system and are no doubt a good candidate for employment by OCAP. I'm sure they'd be interested in your manipulative social engineering skills.

If everyone that was sad sometimes got a government living wage I don't think that we'd have anyone left in the workforce.

I don't know why you label me as being on the right as being a bad thing. Yes, I'm on the right but that doesn't mean I'm not compassionate and would want to do away with valuable social services that provide important support to those people in need. Quite the opposite actually. I just like to make sure that someone is watching the money and not just spending blindly and when money is short raising taxes. So it's prudent to always take inventory and audit which programs are performing well and which aren't. We need to get the best bang for our buck and refocus funds on those good programs when need be.

Having frank discussions about how and where our tax dollars are being spent isn't akin to an attack.

In light of this I will take it upon myself to read about depression and see for myself if it is as debilitating as people seem to think. I still have a hard time wrapping my head around being sad is a disability but if the Charter says it is maybe there's something to it. I'm not trying to belittle or demean you teddy even though it probably looks that way and I'm glad you post on this forum.

I can tell you about my depression: it changes the way I see things. When I have a 'flare up' I don't bathe, I don't do laundry, sometimes I don't eat. I also truly don't think I really could get a job I could hold - but I've been told that this is a symptom of the depression too. Mental Illness changes how you see things.

And I take no offence.

[Jiblethead]

my only problem is people collecting odsp for non-debilitating mental health issues. depression should not prevent anyone from finding a job, going to school, etc.

and sorry if i seem like i am being harsh.

also, i realize this problem is, well, not that big a deal. There are lawyers, politicians, businessmen, bankers, who leech far more from the system. There is corruption on all levels in Canada and the US.

[TheNewTeddy]

depression should not prevent anyone from finding a job, going to school, etc.

I actually agree with you, and wish it did not.

Though in my own personal case there are other reasons too I'm not rushing back into the job market.

[jacee]

Mr Canada

but for every one of you I see another 10 who do want to live on ODSP for the duration of their lives. Maybe I just don't understand depression ...

You "see" ?

Or you imagine?

[login]

As I said I fully support social services for people who truly need them.

and which ones don't

name some or it is baseless rhetoric, and that just makes you look like a stooge

cause you know them so well

Edited October 7, 2012 by login

[Mr.Canada]

and which ones don't

name some or it is baseless rhetoric, and that just makes you look like a stooge

cause you know them so well

Tons of people are on OW and ODSP who are not really in need. Many are faking a medical condition or are too lazy to work and enjoy the lifestyle given to them by the government. Some people use OW as a temporary measure so they can get a job or get retrained and start working or are working on the medical conditions etc. This is its intended use. However many people are able bodied and have been on OW/ODSP for years in essence stealing benefits from someone who may really be in need of such services.

[login]

Tons of people are on OW and ODSP who are not really in need.

Like who?

Many are faking a medical condition or are too lazy to work and enjoy the lifestyle given to them by the government.

Like who? Where are you getting this from?

You are playing your own fiddle.

Some people use OW as a temporary measure so they can get a job or get retrained and start working or are working on the medical conditions etc. This is its intended use. However many people are able bodied and have been on OW/ODSP for years in essence stealing benefits from someone who may really be in need of such services.

Well you do know that OW requires people to work to get benefits unless they have a medical condition that prevents them from it.

Likewise those with medical conditions receiving OW can be diverted to ODSP because they arn't well matched with teh WORKFAIR program OW is.

Workfair entitles people to work or train for employment.

You don't seem to have a clue what OW or ODSP are. ODSP exists for people who have long term or permanent disabilities. DOCTORS are the ones who make those diagnosises.

Faking a debilitating disability that is of a long term or permanent nature is not likely.

I'd suggest you cite specific individuals who are doing this or stop your senseless lies.

People who get OW earn less than minimum wage for the number of hours they have to put into the program this includes madatory training sessions and community service.

People who receive ODSP are disabled.

IF you know of people "faking" their disabilities --- list some names... cause the only way you would know this is if you are spying on them and are an M.D. are you an M.D. Mr. canada?

My guess is no you arn't and you are full of it.

Edited October 8, 2012 by login

[Mr.Canada]

So login, you are suggesting that there are zero cases of fraud in the OW ODSP system. Your position is extremely naive. I have lived on the streets myself and can guarantee that there are many people who don't want to work and only want to collect benefits. I have met a lot of people in the shelter system who are on ODSP who seemingly don't have mucg wrong with them but inflate their problems in order to get on ODSP. They doctor shop.

[login]

So login, you are suggesting that there are zero cases of fraud in the OW ODSP system.

I'm suggesting you are spouting baseless rhetoric and have supplied no evidence to back up your very broad claims.

I have lived on the streets myself and can guarantee that there are many people who don't want to work and only want to collect benefits.

Yet you can't name any, perhaps you are part of the problem.

I have met a lot of people in the shelter system who are on ODSP who seemingly don't have mucg wrong with them but inflate their problems in order to get on ODSP. They doctor shop.

Name some of them.

Your entire position is now based on what you think, and you have all these people that you can't specifically reference, so basically you are abbetting welfare fraud, admitantly.

It also says that you are blindly standing by even though you know of doctors who are clearly unqualified to provide assessments.

If what you say is true (and I doubt anything that comes out of your mouth as true), then basically you are the problem because you let it happen.

You have basically said to the WORLD. MR. CANADA IS A WELFARE FRAUD ABETTOR, A CRIMINAL.

In Canada, a person who aids or abets in the commission of a crime is treated the same as a principal offender under the criminal law. Section 21(1) of the Criminal Code provides that:

Every one is a party to an offence who (a. ) actually commits it; (b. ) does or omits to do anything for the purpose of aiding any person to commit it; or (c. ) abets any person in committing it.

I think the next logical step is for you to provide your real name and address so we can file fraud charges against you, then you we can have one less person leaching off the system, right MR. CANADA?

Edited October 8, 2012 by login

[Mr.Canada]

I'm suggesting you are spouting baseless rhetoric and have supplied no evidence to back up your very broad claims.

Yet you can't name any, perhaps you are part of the problem.

Name some of them.

Because I cannot name every welfare and ODSP scammer doesn't mean they do not exist. There is a Welfare fraud hotline. It must collecting dust and never ringing according to you.

Go live in any homeless shelter and you will meet people defrauding the system. Like I said I lived on the streets for years from the time I was a sixteen until my mid twenties so I have first hand experience. I've stayed in every youth shelter and adult shelter in Toronto at one time or another.

The rest if your post is utter nonsense. If you think I've committed a crime simply contact your local police. The police will investigate and can order the owner of mlw to hand over all of its system traffic. From that the police can find out where each users connection to mlw originated from.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Mr.Canada