Cutting funding for abortions

[scribblet]

Most of them are probably rape and incest.

I don't know for sure, but I kinda doubt it, in fact according to this http://www.guelphforlife.com/abortion.html

What are the most common reasons for performing abortions in Canada? According to the Alan Guttmacher Institute, over 90% of abortions are done for socio-economic reasons. Less then 1% are done for reasons of rape or incest

He does have a point, unless it's rape, incest or health reasons it is an elective. I doubt any gov't would go there, it would be a political loser.

[guyser]

100,000 abortions are performed a year.

64,000 are performed **

** does not include Que nor BC clinis, which is to say the number is higher, but not as high as someone wants us to believe since his agenda is well known.

[Mr.Canada]

64,000 are performed **

** does not include Que nor BC clinis, which is to say the number is higher, but not as high as someone wants us to believe since his agenda is well known.

Ah shit Guyser, you make me laugh. I like to argue with you though, I'm glad you're still around here.

[guyser]

Ah shit Guyser, you make me laugh. I like to argue with you though, I'm glad you're still around here.

Thank you but.....30,000 less abortions , when making an argument about cost of same, is quite the stretch...doncha think?

If not, lets trade your $100,000 salary for my $64,000 salary and I will buy you the next beer , and I'll throw in the pickled eggs and Hot Rod pepperonis to boot.

[Mr.Canada]

Thank you but.....30,000 less abortions , when making an argument about cost of same, is quite the stretch...doncha think?

If not, lets trade your $100,000 salary for my $64,000 salary and I will buy you the next beer , and I'll throw in the pickled eggs and Hot Rod pepperonis to boot.

It's more than 64,000 as you said BC and Quebec are not included. The second and third most populous provinces. And the most socialist provinces in the country.

[guyser]

It's more than 64,000 as you said BC and Quebec are not included. The second and third most populous provinces. And the most socialist provinces in the country.

Now Now...BC Clinics not Hospitals in BC, they are counted.

QC does not submit figures

[Mr.Canada]

Now Now...BC Clinics not Hospitals in BC, they are counted.

QC does not submit figures

There you go. 30% of women 45 and younger have had an abortion at some point in their lives. Thats gotta be at least 15,000 a year in BC clinics and in Qc. So maybe 80,000 a year would be more accurate that's still $ 80 million a year. Not chump change guyser.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Mr.Canada

[The_Squid]

There you go. 30% of women 45 and younger have had an abortion at some point in their lives. Thats gotta be at least 15,000 a year in BC clinics and in Qc. So maybe 80,000 a year would be more accurate that's still $ 80 million a year. Not chump change guyser.

If someone wants a baby, they should pay the delivery costs out of pocket. We would save a lot of money that way.

[Mr.Canada]

If someone wants a baby, they should pay the delivery costs out of pocket. We would save a lot of money that way.

Something needs to be done. I'm all for a private element to health care in Canada.

[Bonam]

Something needs to be done.

Why? Canada's doing pretty well, the system seems to be working fine. In places like the US, the "something needs to be done" statement in regards to healthcare may be more of a given, but in Canada, I'm not so sure.

I think Canada will get over the baby boomer bump in health care costs just fine, and after that the population distribution will normalize and healthcare costs will remain well under control.

[Mr.Canada]

Why? Canada's doing pretty well, the system seems to be working fine. In places like the US, the "something needs to be done" statement in regards to healthcare may be more of a given, but in Canada, I'm not so sure.

I think Canada will get over the baby boomer bump in health care costs just fine, and after that the population distribution will normalize and healthcare costs will remain well under control.

because healthcare takes up half of our total yearly budget and goes up by 6% a year. That is not sustainable.

[Bonam]

because healthcare takes up half of our total yearly budget and goes up by 6% a year. That is not sustainable.

But why does it go up 6% per year? You really think it's because of the cost of women having abortions? The increase in health care costs is due to two fundamental factors:

1) Shifting demographics so that the average age of the population continues to increase, and older people tend to require more healthcare.

2) Increasing technologies, allowing us to do more and more to care for people's health, but these new devices, procedures, and drugs cost money, money that would not have been spent before when they didn't exist.

Issue #1 will fix itself within about 20 years. Issue #2 will stay with us, but the rising investment will continue to lengthen people's life expectancy, and that's money better spent than many other uses.

[Mr.Canada]

No it isn't sustainable. Over 20 years our healthcare costs will more than double. Plus Canada keeps letting in eldery immigrants who contribute nothing but get all the benefits of our healthcare system. Something needs to happen here. Doing nothing isn't an option. No one wants to talk about it until we have a crisis in this country.

[Guest Derek L]

No it isn't sustainable. Over 20 years our healthcare costs will more than double. Plus Canada keeps letting in eldery immigrants who contribute nothing but get all the benefits of our healthcare system. Something needs to happen here. Doing nothing isn't an option. No one wants to talk about it until we have a crisis in this country.

How about Eugenics? Ole Tommy Douglas favored it's use for a time......

[dre]

But why does it go up 6% per year? You really think it's because of the cost of women having abortions? The increase in health care costs is due to two fundamental factors:

1) Shifting demographics so that the average age of the population continues to increase, and older people tend to require more healthcare.

2) Increasing technologies, allowing us to do more and more to care for people's health, but these new devices, procedures, and drugs cost money, money that would not have been spent before when they didn't exist.

Issue #1 will fix itself within about 20 years. Issue #2 will stay with us, but the rising investment will continue to lengthen people's life expectancy, and that's money better spent than many other uses.

Those are valid points but an important one is missing. Whether healthcare is really "going up every year" is a relative measure. Its only going up because the cost is rising faster than peoples ability to pay for it.

The real reason that things like medical care, and college tuition are rising faster than real wages is because healthcare and education workers work in a completely different economy than their customers. They are protected from global competition by geography. We have no choice but to purchase those services from Canadians.

So Bob the manufacturing worker, has to purchase medical care from Bill the doctor. Bobs wages have been stagnant because he has to directly compete with everyone else in the global manufacturing base, but Bills wages have seen steady growth because not only is he geographically protected from competition but the government protects him from competition through the Canada health act. And its not just technology. HEalthcare is more than 50% wages for healthcare workers, and those wages have been increasing faster the wages of most other Canadians.

[guyser]

Plus Canada keeps letting in eldery immigrants who contribute nothing but get all the benefits of our healthcare system. Something needs to happen here. Doing nothing isn't an option. No one wants to talk about it until we have a crisis in this country.

There two issues at play here and you are combining them for convenience.

First is abortion funding, and we can talk about that in regards to access cost etc. But what we cant do is combine it with elderly immigrants being part and parcel of the costs we have.

Elderly immigrants had younger family members post promissory notes to provide for their health, inlcuding Dr visits etc.

So maybe you should rant at the govt who has done SFA about collecting. And note, not one damn party has been any better at it than the other.

Lib PC CPC they all suck in this dept.

Edited October 2, 2012 by guyser

[punked]

Just so we are clear on this hypothetical, it is impossible. A province CAN NOT delisted abortions with out being in violation of Canada Health Act and that province would then lose all Federal healthcare funding. It would be a horrible idea for any province.

I believe it was 1988 in which the supreme court of Canada ruled access to abortions are a part of the Charter. Have fun trying to change the charter right wing extremists.

Edited October 2, 2012 by punked

[scribblet]

........................ But what we cant do is combine it with elderly immigrants being part and parcel of the costs we have.

Elderly immigrants had younger family members post promissory notes to provide for their health, inlcuding Dr visits etc.

So maybe you should rant at the govt who has done SFA about collecting. And note, not one damn party has been any better at it than the other.

Lib PC CPC they all suck in this dept.

Do you have any stats on that, how many sponsors are behind or just not paying for their elderly relative's health care ?

ETA: Interesting info on how much elderly immigrants cost the taxpayers for health care. The CPC have made suggestions about changes, but we know should they put it into affect they would be racist, mean spirited yadda yadda.

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/2035/Newcomers+over+costly+memo/6642971/story.html

Edited October 2, 2012 by scribblet

[scribblet]

Just so we are clear on this hypothetical, it is impossible. A province CAN NOT delisted abortions with out being in violation of Canada Health Act and that province would then lose all Federal healthcare funding. It would be a horrible idea for any province.

I believe it was 1988 in which the supreme court of Canada ruled access to abortions are a part of the Charter. Have fun trying to change the charter right wing extremists.

Well, for the left wing extremists, The Canada Health Act (CHA) states that provinces must pay for medically needed services. Abortion, however, is elective surgery and thus not medically required. (in most situations, not all)

The Canada Health Act does not require provincial provision or funding of abortions, nor did the Supreme Court rule on who pays for abortions. It's up to the provinces to decide.

PEI does not pay, New Brunswick pays for hospital abortions but not private clinic abortions.

Edited October 2, 2012 by scribblet

[madmax]

because healthcare takes up half of our total yearly budget and goes up by 6% a year. That is not sustainable.

What you are suggesting would cost MORE and make it MORE unsustainable.

[guyser]

Do you have any stats on that, how many sponsors are behind or just not paying for their elderly relative's health care ?

No i d ont, but from what I have glenaed form the past, almost none of them are chased for the cash.

[madmax]

Well, for the left wing extremists, The Canada Health Act (CHA) states that provinces must pay for medically needed services. Abortion, however, is elective surgery and thus not medically required. (in most situations, not all)

Erm , its not interpreted that way in law.

The Canada Health Act does not require provincial provision or funding of abortions, nor did the Supreme Court rule on who pays for abortions. It's up to the provinces to decide.

PEI does not pay, New Brunswick pays for hospital abortions but not private clinic abortions.

PEI pays like New Brunswick.

Health PEI says there is no law, policy or regulation currently in place to prevent abortions being performed on P.E.I., and that any qualified doctor on the Island could apply for operating room privileges to perform one. According to the current fee-for-service contract between the province and the PEI Medical Society, a doctor would be paid $151 for doing so.

[Mr.Canada]

What you are suggesting would cost MORE and make it MORE unsustainable.

Sorry no you're totally wrong. I am advocating two tier health care. People who are able to pay can choose to pay if they want for better, faster service. People who aren't able to pay or who choose not to pay can use the health care system as it is now. It would relieve the stress on our system and drive total cost way down.

People cannot get an eye exam but they can get a sex change operation or an abortion. This is the problem. Elective surgeries covered while required things aren't. So no more coverage for elective cosmetic surgeries. This is what pisses people off. No one is saying they cannot have it just that they have to pay for it themselves.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Mr.Canada

[madmax]

Sorry no you're totally wrong. I am advocating two tier health care. People who are able to pay can choose to pay if they want for better, faster service. People who aren't able to pay or who choose not to pay can use the health care system as it is now. It would relieve the stress on our system and drive total cost way down.

If there is a private health facility and you wish to pay out of your own pocket for your healthcare there is NOTHING to stop you or the private facility.

Just DON'T DIP into the PUBLIC trough , with a private clinic, or private citizen to jump the queu.

People cannot get an eye exam This is the problem. .

But you just said, its cheaper to pay for your own Eye Exam.

I used to get them with my taxes. Now I get to pay out of pocket. Sorry I liked how it was before.

This is your dream solution.

Enjoy it.

[Mr.Canada]

If there is a private health facility and you wish to pay out of your own pocket for your healthcare there is NOTHING to stop you or the private facility.

Just DON'T DIP into the PUBLIC trough , with a private clinic, or private citizen to jump the queu.

But you just said, its cheaper to pay for your own Eye Exam.

I used to get them with my taxes. Now I get to pay out of pocket. Sorry I liked how it was before.

This is your dream solution.

Enjoy it.

We don't have two tier health care in Ontario. I wish we did but people go crazy when it's suggested because they think that the better doctors will work privately instead of publicly. Why not let the market decide what it will support?

people who are wiling to pay should get better health care the n those who can't or won't.

Sure I don't mind paying out of pocket for an eye exam. But I do have a problem with paying from my taxes for abortions and sex changes which are cosmetic/elective surgeries.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Mr.Canada