Toews hanging out with a bad Private Prison crowd...

[madmax]

I am wondering if the Conservatives are going to turn tail on the Private Prisons and Contracting out of the gravy services.

CSC officials last May urged Public Safety Minister Vic Toews to discuss Canada’s “interest in considering the privatization of penitentiary services on a limited basis,” according to a memo Bloomberg obtained under a freedom of information request.

The Guardian reports that among the companies lobbying Ottawa for a piece of the prison action is Geo Group, a Florida-based corporation whose lobbyist met with Toews last year.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/07/13/prison-privatization-canada_n_1670755.html

"The company is the target of a class-action lawsuit alleging that one of its youth facilities in Louisiana was plagued by sexual abuse. The suit alleges that guards engaged in sex with inmates -- who at that facility range in age from 13 to 22 -- and smuggled drugs into the prison. The facility allegedly denied health care and education services to inmates as well. A federal judge described the Geo Group prison as "a cesspool of unconstitutional and inhuman acts." "

[cybercoma]

Of course. That's the only way the Tory crime policies make any sense whatsoever. They're certainly not to make the streets safer. They're to make our prisons profitable.

[Guest Manny]

Of course. That's the only way the Tory crime policies make any sense whatsoever. They're certainly not to make the streets safer. They're to make our prisons profitable.

Yes that is indeed a concern and i read an article recently on stock market investment in private prison corporations. The value of stock is tied to, among other things, the number of prisoners held in the system.

[TwoDucks]

Yes that is indeed a concern and i read an article recently on stock market investment in private prison corporations. The value of stock is tied to, among other things, the number of prisoners held in the system.

That is kinda disturbing. Not surprising, though.

[cybercoma]

And just think, if the crime rate goes up, people are making money. So why would you want the crime rate to be reduced if your financiers are getting wealthy off it?

[Guest Manny]

Since crime is apparently going down, that's a bit of a problem. So what you do is bring in mandatory minimum sentences, even for non-violent crimes. Yes, it all makes perfect sense, to a corporatist.

[Wilber]

Of course. That's the only way the Tory crime policies make any sense whatsoever. They're certainly not to make the streets safer. They're to make our prisons profitable.

I'm not in favour of privatized prisons but how does one make prisons profitable?

[cybercoma]

I'm not in favour of privatized prisons but how does one make prisons profitable?

By putting more people into prison with laws that have proven to be an utter failure in other jurisdictions and are largely criticized by lawyers, judges, and criminologists everywhere.

Does it not seem funny to people that we need to constantly tweak and revamp laws for a few pot plants or petty crimes like stealing chump change out of registers at corner stores, but you rarely hear about any serious attempts to change laws that have to do with corporate crime or white collar crime?

One of the reasons is that the vultures go after the weak. Those without the money or ability to defend themselves.

Another is that as long as the power brokers can keep people looking down the ladder, instead of up the ladder where the greatest impact of crime is, they can keep the heat off themselves.

What has a greater impact on society? The guy who steals a few hundred bucks from a gas station at knife point or the white collar criminal that embezzles millions and ruins people's investments and retirement funds? Or how about the guy who gets on a bus and shoots 3 people versus the company running an oil rig that knowingly pencil whips safety reports resulting in an explosion that kills 11 workers and dumps thousands of gallons of oil into the waterways?

As a society, we tend to be focused on the first examples in the dyads, considering them worse and more worthy of millions in resources to fight than the latter examples. However, it is those latter examples that create the greatest impact on society.

In any case, the laws passed most recently focus on the petty crimes of the underclass. They seem to have the aim of filling up prisons, rather than preventing crime and combating recidivism. If stock prices go up when the prisons are fuller, then creating the conditions for those prisons to fill up also creates the conditions for those investors to make money. If those investors happen to be the financiers of your political party, all the better.

Edited July 16, 2012 by cybercoma

[Wilber]

By putting more people into prison with laws that have proven to be an utter failure in other jurisdictions and are largely criticized by lawyers, judges, and criminologists everywhere.

Does it not seem funny to people that we need to constantly tweak and revamp laws for a few pot plants or petty crimes like stealing chump change out of registers at corner stores, but you rarely hear about any serious attempts to change laws that have to do with corporate crime or white collar crime?

One of the reasons is that the vultures go after the weak. Those without the money or ability to defend themselves.

Another is that as long as the power brokers can keep people looking down the ladder, instead of up the ladder where the greatest impact of crime is, they can keep the heat off themselves.

Nice rant but it doesn't answer the question.

[Shakeyhands]

Nice rant but it doesn't answer the question.

It doesn't make "us" any money, it makes the investors money via sweetheart deals with the gov't. By filling up prisons with people they charge 'x' dollars per inmate while only spending 'y' on the housing of said prisoners.

[bleeding heart]

I'm not in favour of privatized prisons but how does one make prisons profitable?

Our taxes...they just need to make sure the quality of the incarceration is cheaper than the money they're bringing in. It's a cold business, but a practical one (from a profit perspective.)

And, in some cases, slave or near-slave labour. That's profitable as well.

Edited July 16, 2012 by bleeding heart

[punked]

Our taxes...they just need to make sure the quality of the incarceration is cheaper than the money they're bringing in. It's a cold business, but a practical one.

And, in some cases, slave or near-slave labour. That's profitable as well.

This is how southern states who are getting tough on illegal aliens are making their farms work now. Pay prisons for slave labour, make huge profits, funnel money into lobbyist to push a "tough on crime agenda" fill your prisons up more to offer more slave labour. Scary thought.

[Wilber]

Our taxes...they just need to make sure the quality of the incarceration is cheaper than the money they're bringing in. It's a cold business, but a practical one.

And, in some cases, slave or near-slave labour. That's profitable as well.

Private prisons might save some money for the tax payer. My concern would be oversight, something this government doesn't seem big on.

What kind of slave labour? Do you really think private prisons will be able to hire out inmates or force them to work in salt mines? This is not NAZI Germany or the Gulag.

[punked]

Private prisons might save some money for the tax payer. My concern would be oversight, something this government doesn't seem big on.

What kind of slave labour? Do you really think private prisons will be able to hire out inmates or force them to work in salt mines? This is not NAZI Germany or the Gulag.

Yep and if we pretend that isn't already going on south of the boarder you might have an argument. We aren't that different from our Southern cousins in the Old USA of A.

http://www.krcrtv.com/living/Vidalia-farmers-turn-to-prisoners-for-harvest-help/-/14286362/15453324/-/29xmoh/-/index.html

Oh you didn't want an example of this happening today in a democracy so close to us. Well this is what happens when you go down that slippery slope.

Edited July 16, 2012 by punked

[GostHacked]

Private prisons will be run at a profit, correct? More inmates better revenue?

[punked]

Private prisons will be run at a profit, correct? More inmates better revenue?

You got it. It also does not save a dime in fact in Arizona they have found they cost the tax payers more.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/19/us/19prisons.html?pagewanted=all

[cybercoma]

Of course they cost more because they'll lobby the government for more money under the threat of having to let evil violent criminals back out onto the streets. Motivated by fear the taxpayer will beg the government to take more of their money to keep them locked up

[GostHacked]

You got it. It also does not save a dime in fact in Arizona they have found they cost the tax payers more.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/19/us/19prisons.html?pagewanted=all

It's a cascading effect. More profits means that more inmates are needed, means more people need to be charged with something, meaning more people needed to man the courts, as well as more people needed for law enforcement. Just a huge waste of time and money.

At that point there is no desire for rehabilitation of any criminal. Toews must be getting some good kickbacks from this deal.

Toews needs to be taught a lesson. I never heard of him before the C-30 Internet Surveillance bill, but with all he has done in the past few months, does not make me like him at all. Very dangerous man he is for threatening our privacy.

[cybercoma]

Toews is nothing more than a sock puppet. The real issue is the people with their hand up his backside. Getting rid of Toews won't solve a thing.

[GostHacked]

Toews is nothing more than a sock puppet. The real issue is the people with their hand up his backside. Getting rid of Toews won't solve a thing.

It would be a start, that way he can be pissed at getting the axe and call out the other asshats who are in control.

[cybercoma]

It would be a start, that way he can be pissed at getting the axe and call out the other asshats who are in control.

It wouldn't happen that way. He would keep his mouth shut. He's not stupid. He just plays the buffoon on TV. Edited July 16, 2012 by cybercoma

[g_bambino]

They're to make our prisons profitable.

To whom? It seems the profits would go only to the company or companies running the prisons. Why, then, would the government be motivated to let private businesses build and/or run jails to make them profitable?

Anyway, there's no evidence the government actually is seriously considering privatising prisions; "may consider" doesn't indicate serious commitment.

[ed.: +]

Edited July 16, 2012 by g_bambino

[Argus]

Fact is that prisons are ridiculously expensive to run, at least those run by the government. I'm not saying there haven't been abuses in the private prison business, but even without those abuses they ought to be able to run prisons far cheaper than the government does.

As for the conspiracy theories about law and order bills designed to put people in prison for profit. Please. Take off the tinfoil hats, huh? This isn't Alabama.

[Wilber]

Yep and if we pretend that isn't already going on south of the boarder you might have an argument. We aren't that different from our Southern cousins in the Old USA of A.

http://www.krcrtv.com/living/Vidalia-farmers-turn-to-prisoners-for-harvest-help/-/14286362/15453324/-/29xmoh/-/index.html

Oh you didn't want an example of this happening today in a democracy so close to us. Well this is what happens when you go down that slippery slope.

Not sure what this has to do with private prisons. State run prisons could as easily do the same thing if the law allowed it. Ultimately, it would be up to the Canadian voter whether this would be an acceptable practice. I don't think privatizing prisons is an avenue that most Canadians want to take.

Arizona is questioning whether private prisons are in fact less expensive for the state.

[GostHacked]

Fact is that prisons are ridiculously expensive to run, at least those run by the government. I'm not saying there haven't been abuses in the private prison business, but even without those abuses they ought to be able to run prisons far cheaper than the government does.

As for the conspiracy theories about law and order bills designed to put people in prison for profit. Please. Take off the tinfoil hats, huh? This isn't Alabama.

Without crime, these private jail companies won't make a profit. It's that simple. And what happens when the private company goes bankrupt? What if they cannot fill the jail in order to be profitable? It's not tinfoil hat stuff .. it seems like basic economics.