13,000 Pages Of New Rules & Regulations For Obamacare

[kraychik]

People may go bankrupt because they're too sick to work. Nobody is bankrupted because of medical expenses.

Except for the federal and provincial governments, right?

[kraychik]

Look back a few posts, I posted a link.

Wow, a link. You win.

*rolls eyes*.

[Guest American Woman]

People may go bankrupt because they're too sick to work. Nobody is bankrupted because of medical expenses.

What difference does it make if they are off of work so long while waiting for medical care that it becomes a financial burden - or the costs are the financial burden? Either way, it's a financial burden that leads to bankruptcy.

[bush_cheney2004]

Lots of Canadians going to the US for major surgeries they pay for themselves, are they? You can hang on to your biases, but as the study I quoted shows, we get the same outcome for almost half the cost, with everybody covered, nobody going bankrupt because of medical expenses, nobody denied care or insurance. Sounds like the better system to me for the average person.

...and the average Canadian waiting months or years for procedures. More Canadians go to the USA than Americans going to Canada, and Canada has only 10% of the population. Better my ass...

[Guest American Woman]

Look back a few posts, I posted a link.

Which link would that be?

[kraychik]

Which link would that be?

Trust me, the link isn't worth reading and it doesn't even confirm his assertion that Canadian healthcare is "better" than what's available in America.

[bush_cheney2004]

What difference does it make if they are off of work so long while waiting for medical care that it becomes a financial burden - or the costs are the financial burden? Either way, it's a financial burden that leads to bankruptcy.

Yep....made perfectly clear in your first post. I guess it's hard to read accept.

[guyser]

Yet medical problems are one of the three leading causes of bankruptcy in Canada.

Probably the first world over too except the bankruptcy becomes not due to cost of medicinal treatment but beacuase the person has reduced income.

[Canuckistani]

Wow, a link. You win.

*rolls eyes*.

If someone asks me to back up my statement, and I refer her to the link I took if from, that is deserving of your scorn?

[kraychik]

Probably the first world over too except the bankruptcy becomes not due to cost of medicinal treatment but beacuase the person has reduced income.

What difference does it make whether the person has reduced income or whether the costs for medical treatment are too high? They're two sides of the same coin. You realize that Canadian incomes are significantly diminished because of the massive taxation that is collected for servicing the single-payer healthcare system, right?

What you're saying, in an attempt to "correct" American Woman, sounds like someone explaining their obesity by saying, "I don't eat too much, I just exercise too little!". It's a stupid argument.

[kraychik]

If someone asks me to back up my statement, and I refer her to the link I took if from, that is deserving of your scorn?

Aside from demonstrating your EXTREME laziness by doing a copy-and-paste for an article you clearly didn't even read, the article *does not* confirm your assertion. Thus, there's no real evidence provided. I've encountered forum participants like you on an endless number of discussion forums over the years, you provide no content and do hit-and-run posts.

[Canuckistani]

What difference does it make whether the person has reduced income or whether the costs for medical treatment are too high? They're two sides of the same coin. You realize that Canadian incomes are significantly diminished because of the massive taxation that is collected for servicing the single-payer healthcare system, right?

What you're saying, in an attempt to "correct" American Woman, sounds like someone explaining their obesity by saying, "I don't eat too much, I just exercise too little!". It's a stupid argument.

What would American incomes be if employers didn't have to pay insurance premiums? And the co-pays that the employees have to pay?

Canadian health care has equal outcomes at almost half the cost. Sounds pretty good to me. In fact some American employers tried to make the case that the Canadian medical system is an unfair subsidy, since they have to pay such high health care premiums.

[kraychik]

What would American incomes be if employers didn't have to pay insurance premiums? And the co-pays that the employees have to pay?

Canadian health care has equal outcomes at almost half the cost. Sounds pretty good to me. In fact some American employers tried to make the case that the Canadian medical system is an unfair subsidy, since they have to pay such high health care premiums.

While everything else in Canada costs ten to twenty percent more than in the USA. You're clearly a leftist who is unable to grasp the interconnectedness of the economy. Pick any product or service you want and let's compare the prices in Canada and the USA. Home appliances, automobiles, internet/mobile phone services, dental procedures, alcoholic beverages, Rice Krispies, gasoline, airfare, Ralph Lauren button-up shirts, anything. Virtually everything in America is significantly cheaper AND they earn almost ten percent more on average. You can't just talk about the reduced healthcare costs without talking about everything else in the broader economy considering it's all interlinked. Also, Canadian healthcare does NOT provide equal outcomes.

[bush_cheney2004]

What would American incomes be if employers didn't have to pay insurance premiums? And the co-pays that the employees have to pay?

American employers do not have to pay insurance premiums....it is a voluntary benefit.

Canadian health care has equal outcomes at almost half the cost. Sounds pretty good to me. In fact some American employers tried to make the case that the Canadian medical system is an unfair subsidy, since they have to pay such high health care premiums.

Several Canadian provinces have standing contracts with American providers to make up for lacking facilities and timely access. Example: Neonatal care

Edited July 6, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

[kraychik]

American employers do not have to pay insurance premiums....it is a voluntary benefit.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, there are varying regulations between states that obligate employers of certain sizes to provide healthcare benefits to employees through group-benefits programs.

[bush_cheney2004]

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, there are varying regulations between states that obligate employers of certain sizes to provide healthcare benefits to employees through group-benefits programs.

Two points:

1) The employee has to engage the benefit voluntarily

2) Only certain jurisdictions mandate employer paid insurance, at least until the full force of Obamacare goes into effect, and even then, there is only a penalty, not civil or criminal liability:

http://www.freeadvice.com/law/business-law/starting_a_business/employee-health-insurance.htm

[guyser]

What difference does it make whether the person has reduced income or whether the costs for medical treatment are too high? They're two sides of the same coin.

Sadly you arent expanding your mind to understand the whys.

If a person saves no money,no financial backup, or hasnt any STD or LTD , and gets sick, he or she may go bankrupt due to loss of income. This works the same in both countries.

If one has saved money and can weather a rainy spell , then gets sick , one may still go bankrupt in one of those countries. You tell me which one.

You realize that Canadian incomes are significantly diminished because of the massive taxation that is collected for servicing the single-payer healthcare system, right?

No Im not. This place doesnt agree with you, in fact says mostly the opposite, although I am not sure if I agree with the end conclusions.

http://slumbuddy.wordpress.com/2011/03/20/comparison-of-us-and-canadian-tax-rates-for-2010/

The bottom 50% of both countries are taxed at roughly the same rate. Average income is slightly higher in the US, the median is essentially the same.

What you're saying, in an attempt to "correct" American Woman, sounds like someone explaining their obesity by saying, "I don't eat too much, I just exercise too little!". It's a stupid argument.

Sorry, I was not attempting anything but clarifying a point, a point that is distinctive. Many bankruptcies the world over are probably due oin some part to medical causes at the root level. As I said earlier, the medical cost may not be the deciding factor, but the time off work, lack of savings poor planning etc.

[guyser]

Home appliances, automobiles, internet/mobile phone services, dental procedures, alcoholic beverages, Rice Krispies, gasoline, airfare, Ralph Lauren button-up shirts, anything. Virtually everything in America is significantly cheaper

And a lot of the reason for that is.....because the American retailer can.

That is according to J Crew CEO, M Wexlar, who said we do what others do, charge higher prices for consumers i9n Canada. They do it, no one complains enough . Capitalism baby !

[bush_cheney2004]

And a lot of the reason for that is.....because the American retailer can.

So the Canadian retailer...can't? Why?

[dre]

Repeal and replace. It's a must.

You mean like how he repealed and replaced RomneyCare which is pretty similar?

[guyser]

So the Canadian retailer...can't? Why?

Nt if home office USA says no.

I was refering to online retailers in that example so did not mean to imply all retailers.

[Canuckistani]

Several Canadian provinces have standing contracts with American providers to make up for lacking facilities and timely access. Example: Neonatal care

So obviously they find it cheaper to go that route than building up the infrastructure themselves. Saves money.

[kraychik]

Sadly you arent expanding your mind to understand the whys.

If a person saves no money,no financial backup, or hasnt any STD or LTD , and gets sick, he or she may go bankrupt due to loss of income. This works the same in both countries.

If one has saved money and can weather a rainy spell , then gets sick , one may still go bankrupt in one of those countries. You tell me which one.

I misunderstood your original post. My mistake.

No Im not. This place doesnt agree with you, in fact says mostly the opposite, although I am not sure if I agree with the end conclusions.

http://slumbuddy.wordpress.com/2011/03/20/comparison-of-us-and-canadian-tax-rates-for-2010/

The bottom 50% of both countries are taxed at roughly the same rate. Average income is slightly higher in the US, the median is essentially the same.

Our costs of living is higher than in the USA exclusively because of great government encroachment over out economy. We pay far more in direct and hidden taxes, including excise/sin taxes, regulatory costs, licensing feeds, and tariffs. This is why virtually everything costs more in Canada. It has *nothing* to do with a difference in culture, where Canadians are just more comfortable with higher prices. Beyond paying more, we also earn less. Bottom line - Americans are generally materialistically wealthier than their Canadian counterparts, the big difference is of course how they pay about twice as much as we do directly towards medical care for similar outcomes. As the say goes, however, there's no such thing as a free lunch. We're paying for these "savings" through massive taxation and regulations which drive up the costs of virtually all other goods and services.

Sorry, I was not attempting anything but clarifying a point, a point that is distinctive. Many bankruptcies the world over are probably due oin some part to medical causes at the root level. As I said earlier, the medical cost may not be the deciding factor, but the time off work, lack of savings poor planning etc.

Again, my mistake. I misunderstood the first post of yours I replied to. I didn't realize that you were referring to the loss of income resulting from health problems.

[kraychik]

And a lot of the reason for that is.....because the American retailer can.

That is according to J Crew CEO, M Wexlar, who said we do what others do, charge higher prices for consumers i9n Canada. They do it, no one complains enough . Capitalism baby !

You are 100% wrong.

[guyser]

So obviously they find it cheaper to go that route than building up the infrastructure themselves. Saves money.

It is an economic benefit , if not necessity in many cases ,for both sides.