westguy Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 I believe no one in Alberta was crying when they were building the railroad to their province, or the grain elevators, or when they were throwing in money to build the infrastructure to get the oil out of the ground. We are a united country we are Canadians, we pony up to make this country better from ocean to ocean. Alberta is no island stop pretending it is. so when Alberta gets the same amenities as the east - THEN we are a "united cuntry" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 so when Alberta gets the same amenities as the east - THEN we are a "united cuntry" Name them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Alberta doesn't make transfer payments. you are woefully uninformed. Billions go from Alberta to the "have not" provinces thru the Feds transfer payment program. Your ignorance is appalling. Alberta is keeping this country going. And yet, my children pay 12,000 university tuition so that the Quebec paraites can pay 2600 - where is the fairness in that??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Name them. your earlier post did so. In 1930 all provinces got control over their natural resources - just like the eastern provinces. Also, Quebec keeeps all revenue from Hydro Quebec - whys doesn't that count towards the transfer program? Cuz all political parties need the parasites votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 you are woefully uninformed. Billions go from Alberta to the "have not" provinces thru the Feds transfer payment program. Your ignorance is appalling. Alberta is keeping this country going. And yet, my children pay 12,000 university tuition so that the Quebec paraites can pay 2600 - where is the fairness in that??? Once you put in place the same tax structure as Quebec then you can have an argument. Right now you are whining because a province whose people actually pay sales tax and income tax have more services then you do. Geeee I wonder why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 your earlier post did so. In 1930 all provinces got control over their natural resources - just like the eastern provinces. Also, Quebec keeeps all revenue from Hydro Quebec - whys doesn't that count towards the transfer program? Cuz all political parties need the parasites votes. Your government signed the Constitution just like everyone else. If you have a problem with it you can blame the people of Alberta and their elected representatives. No one else. No one forced you into a national agreement, it was the people of Alberta who agreed to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Once you put in place the same tax structure as Quebec then you can have an argument. Right now you are whining because a province whose people actually pay sales tax and income tax have more services then you do. Geeee I wonder why? thieir services are subsidized by alberta. Quebec and much of Canada would be banana republics if it was not able to steal Alberta's prosperity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 and again... you simply can't answer a simple question put to you. In one of your earlier flights-to-fancy, I was quite willing to lay out your farcical scenario for you... the one that had you bound and determined to ignore everything Russia, at great expense/time to itself, is currently doing to align with international law... while at the same time extending upon your boogeyman fears of Russia and, for good measure, had you taking a swipe at your favourite UN target. as I said, Russia just isn't playing into your trumped up boogeyman scenario: not only is Russia most transparent in announcing its current efforts in pursuit of building a scientifically founded case to support its Arctic aspirations, Russia formally announced it's intention to bring it's case forward to have the UN rule upon it. But of course, you trot out the SC permanent members veto card - your boogeyman 'ace-in-the-whole'... which, of course, shows your fabrication has no barriers! The whole point of that little exercise was to get you to see the idiocy of your scenario and just how a, ultimately, veto play made absolutely no sense - in that scenario of yours... not another new one you want to fabricate and play out while conveniently ignoring this one. so, again, I quite willingly laid out your idiotic boogeyman scenario, the one that gave you your convenient UN slag. The idiotic scenario that presumes upon a UN ruling going against Russia, Russia moving the dispute to the World Court, the World Court ruling against Russia, Russia taking the World Court decision back to UN... and then... UN SC members ruling against "accepting the Russian claim"... and then Russia leveraging it's UN SC veto to... to veto... what? The question you can't/won't answer, because you know it shows just how ridiculous your fabrications run and the lengths to which you'll take them. If... if... everything lined up to feed into your ultimate Russian SC permanent member veto play, it would mean what? That Russia would veto the fact that international law won't recognize its Arctic aspiration claim? Would your imaginary Russian veto suddenly turn international law around to recognize a Russian Arctic claim? obviously, you have multiple beefs with the UN... I suggest you get in line! In any case, sorry to burst your boogeyman-bubble on this one; on this particular fabrication of yours. And you are trying to confuse the issue simply because you don't know what you are talking about. Russia will try to get their way through the proper means but should that fail they have no worries because they could go ahead and still take what they deem as theirs regardless because they have the final say. Now when you have 5 nations who can and do use that power to ignore the ICJ then the ICJ is nothing but a useless waste of money. Since the UNSC is designed to fail plain and simple, as every one of those 5 nations has its own interests to worry about and as such they couldn't care less about an issue if it counter to what their national interests are. You look at my scenario and say that Russia is the bogeyman, to me they aren't, to me it simply is business. If over the next generation the resources in the north become more valuable as other places start to run out, why would Russia willingly leave a piece of valuable property that it deems its own? They can try all the legitimate means and if that doesn't work they can go the other way and just occupy the contested land and then block any UNSC resolutions pertaining to the issue just like The Republic of Nicaragua v. The United States of America in 1984 ICJ case where the ICJ ruled, and the US decided it won't play along and when Nicaragua went to the UNSC care to guess what happened? You don't have to be the bogeyman to look out for yourself and you don't have to go out of your way to piss off other countries without using legitimate means. Thats why the UN is useless, because it is designed to fail as 5 different nations have 5 different sets of national interests and as such vote based on what good for them rather then whats good for the UN and since they have veto power they can and do make the UN useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Your government signed the Constitution just like everyone else. If you have a problem with it you can blame the people of Alberta and their elected representatives. No one else. No one forced you into a national agreement, it was the people of Alberta who agreed to it. so it seems that you agree with my bitch but blame Alberta for the unfairness in the system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 thieir services are subsidized by alberta. Quebec and much of Canada would be banana republics if it was not able to steal Alberta's prosperity And so it goes. For a long time Ontario's wealth ran (it still does really Ontario and Quebec have GDPs way bigger then Alberta but don't let that stop you) this country before that it was the East and Fish (the cod built this nation) now that have a part in the economic prosperity of Canada you want out? Give me a break you act like a child. You want out have fun opening the Constitution you signed when it was good for you. The agreement your people entered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Your government signed the Constitution just like everyone else. Except Quebec? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 so it seems that you agree with my bitch but blame Alberta for the unfairness in the system It isn't unfair it is generational. There is always going to be one province who does better then another. What we have done is said no province (for the sake of the country) should be to worse off. You think Fort Mcmurray would be booming with out Labour from the rest of Canada? Heck only half its population is native to Alberta. The East is training their sons and daughters giving them skills and Alberta is benefiting from that. We are a nation get over it already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 And you are trying to confuse the issue simply because you don't know what you are talking about.Russia will try to get their way through the proper means but should that fail they have no worries because they could go ahead and still take what they deem as theirs regardless because they have the final say. no confusion on my part; none what so ever. I see you didn't answer the question... again! why your charade with the UN/World Court... if you're just going to fall back to your clear-cut boogeyman, "Russia will do whatever it wants"? if you had any clue you would know that Russia holds the same view/position over the Northeast Passage as Canada holds for the Northwest Passage. Russia clearly has a vested interest to play within the boundaries of recognized international law... if it presumes to have any legitimacy attached to its Northeast Passage claim. Hence, all its concentrated efforts to bring forward a scientifically founded claim in regards to its Arctic aspirations... to follow the international law procedure... to bring its scientifically founded claim to the UN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 It isn't unfair it is generational. There is always going to be one province who does better then another. What we have done is said no province (for the sake of the country) should be to worse off. You think Fort Mcmurray would be booming with out Labour from the rest of Canada? Heck only half its population is native to Alberta. The East is training their sons and daughters giving them skills and Alberta is benefiting from that. We are a nation get over it already. you miss my point. The unfairness is that certain provinces use the transfer payments to give their population benefits ( $7 day care and 2600 tuition) that the rest of the country doesn't have at the cost to the contributing province. I wonder how Quebec would fare if it didn't have access to the generous contributions from Alberta. would you care to speculate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 You don't have to be the bogeyman to look out for yourself and you don't have to go out of your way to piss off other countries without using legitimate means. Thats why the UN is useless, because it is designed to fail as 5 different nations have 5 different sets of national interests and as such vote based on what good for them rather then whats good for the UN and since they have veto power they can and do make the UN useless. like I said, get in line with your UN beefs. None of which has any relation or bearing upon the fabricated boogeyman scenario you had hoped to play out over Russia's Arctic aspirations. just answer the question!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 thieir services are subsidized by alberta. Quebec and much of Canada would be banana republics if it was not able to steal Alberta's prosperity will you be working to separate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) you miss my point. The unfairness is that certain provinces use the transfer payments to give their population benefits ( $7 day care and 2600 tuition) that the rest of the country doesn't have at the cost to the contributing province. I wonder how Quebec would fare if it didn't have access to the generous contributions from Alberta. would you care to speculate? And when you have the tax structure of Quebec (who pays the most taxes in Canada) you can whine and cry about how unfair it is all day. Fact is though while they get equalization payments and Transfer payments (which can now be used almost any way a province wants because that was a concession that the Liberals gave in order to cut health care payments as well as others because that is what the Alberta reform party was screaming about in the 90s) they pay for their education also with high taxes. You make an unfair comparison acting like the people in Quebec get a free ride. The ride costs them they pay much much much more in Taxes then you do. Get over already you are using poor assumptions to make a poor argument. I wonder if Albertans could have free daycare and free tuition if they paid the same amount of Taxes those in Quebec do? You have made a choice you get to live with it. You want the same levels of service pay the same taxes. Edited June 10, 2012 by punked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 no confusion on my part; none what so ever. I see you didn't answer the question... again! why your charade with the UN/World Court... if you're just going to fall back to your clear-cut boogeyman, "Russia will do whatever it wants"? if you had any clue you would know that Russia holds the same view/position over the Northeast Passage as Canada holds for the Northwest Passage. Russia clearly has a vested interest to play within the boundaries of recognized international law... if it presumes to have any legitimacy attached to its Northeast Passage claim. Hence, all its concentrated efforts to bring forward a scientifically founded claim in regards to its Arctic aspirations... to follow the international law procedure... to bring its scientifically founded claim to the UN. So you are saying that the UN and ICJ work perfectly? They are fair to all nations? No one has an unfair advantage? You started this argument then you brought in an argument from another thread where you tried to "school" me on the UNSC at which point it came out you know nothing about the UNSC and now you are trying to distract the conversation by saying Russia will never do it... its been done before irrelevant by which nations but its been done before so my original point stands that the UN and ICJ are useless waste of money. We should not waste time and money on those worthless organizations until they become more respectable in the world through proper reorganization. I'm telling you if Russia WANTED TO they can have any piece of land that is under dispute as the final say lies with them and not the ICJ. You can say that they will never do it, but that is irrelevant because at the end of the day Canada has to depend on the goodwill of Russia to leave it alone should the ICJ rule against them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 like I said, get in line with your UN beefs. None of which has any relation or bearing upon the fabricated boogeyman scenario you had hoped to play out over Russia's Arctic aspirations. just answer the question!!! Whats the question? Because the original question was why the UN is useless, and I gave you a what if scenario and a real event you seem to see you are wrong yet you don't want to admit it and thus you try to put attention on what Russia will or will not do as opposed to what they CAN and CANNOT do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 will you be working to separate? Not likely - unlike the parti quebecios Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 It's pretty bad when the National Post runs a story on the Conservative government's fiscal incompetence. It seems the Department of Defence can't explain why it spent $2.8 billion more in fiscal year 2012 than the previous year. I'm sorry. Are you suggesting the mandarins at DND are members of the Conservative Party of Canada? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Why are we wasting these peoples lives overseas in the first place? If you care about their lives you would do a lot more to help them by opposing all this ill fated, and idiotic world policing, then making the skin on the jeep a little bit thicker. The theory of modern western defense over the past fifty years has been fairly consistent. We'd rather fight them over there than over here. I can't say I disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 So you are saying that the UN and ICJ work perfectly? making more shyte up, hey? What I am saying... is what I said... that your Russian boogeyman scenario concerning Arctic aspirations, was just another of your trumped up, self-serving fabrications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 $700 million for tanks, or $700 million for schools/students? Is this even a question? So because your government is consistently incompetent in managing its finances and economy Canada should abandon the thought of military preparedness and defense? I don't think so. Quebecers are, much like many Europeans, discovering that no matter how much you WANT all those pretty toys, you can really only have the ones you can afford. Whining and smashing things because someone has pointed this out to you is nothing more than the sign of an immature society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 It is guns or butter. I would always rather feed Canadian kids then spend money shooting people in another country. Until those people come here to shoot the Canadian kids because we don't have any guns to stop them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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