Claudius Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) Well the Ontario-beats-everyone-else cheerleading squad has finally run out of relevant things to say and they've been relegated to trying to exchange ratios for numbers and attaks for what is supposedly a compliment. What remains is this: 1. Bigoted attitudes towards the West find their origins in the reaction by English Ontario towards the early immigration of Europeans to the Western provinces. This is obvious for anyone who reads. 2. That you deny any of this exists is hilarious considering we're in this thread designed to take shots at Alberta (even starting just with the title). This is also obvious no matter how many times yuo stamp your feet and insist it was only created for level-headed discourse. 3. That Stifton was born in Western Ontario and moved to Manitoba doesn't change a thing. I can't wait to hear more of the, "What? English monarchist Ontarionians might've had some prejudices during the turn of the century towards Eastern Europeans moving into the country? OMG! How dare he make that accusation. And you further suggest that's where some anti-Western attitudes might've developed? OMG the humanity? How preposterous!" lol!! >....sure to be followed by some wishful thinking claims like "Opps! It looks like Claudius is flipping his lid" which ironically only describes the attitudes I've received from MiddleClassCentrist and Waldo and the like. They just can't stand the idea that people from Ontario might've had some prejudiced opinions at the turn of the century. ...and all of this pretentious attempts at indignation in a thread whose only purpose is to take pot-shots at Alberta. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so stupid. Edited June 1, 2012 by Claudius Quote There is virtually no difference between the 3 major parties once they get into power.
Claudius Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) Double post. Edited June 1, 2012 by Claudius Quote There is virtually no difference between the 3 major parties once they get into power.
waldo Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) Well first there's the dishonest factor of you trying to switch an amount of people for a percentage of growth which is what we're talking about and what counts when talking about an increase in needed infrastructure. Alberta's is 10% of its population, and Ontarios' is less than 5%.We can assume Ontario had the infrastructure for X amount of people as did Alberta. If X number of people grows by 10% that's harder to make changes than if it only grows by 5%. The ratio is all that counts since there was already exisiting supporting infrastructure for X number of people. You use a classic slight of hand by addressing the specific number of people when ratio is all that matters in this case. you're certainly quick to label anyone/everyone in this thread as being dishonest... it belies your weak arguments. In any case, I couldn't have been more explicit in delineating ratio versus numbers... the population number rise you so claim Ontario can better manage, even at 2.5 times that of Alberta. Your assuming is self-serving - and unsubstantiated. You have no (expressed) idea where the Ontario population increases were most realized, what impact they had and how they were managed (or not managed). I also note you took extreme liberty in ignoring the referenced Ralph Klein admission that the Alberta government had no provisions/plans to accommodate population increases - does it today? No error, or at least the not the one in your imagination. It is telling though that once I admit a minor error that you leap at the opportunity to dishonestly cast the error as something else entirely. Like I say: no debating with those who can't be honest. Ontarios growth is less than 5%, while Alberta's was 10% in the same time period. It's obvious to anyone honest or intelligent that Ontario would only require less than 5% infrastructure increase while Alberta would require 10%. Which is higher Waldo? >5% or 10%? :lol: :lol: 5... count em... 5 LOL emoticions - heelarious (I'd add another but there's a posting limit rule I expect also limited your hee-haw and kept you to 5). You were in error; repeatedly claiming a 25% population ratio increase. Like I said, did lowering that to 10% adjust your fake outrage by a corresponding ratio? Edited June 1, 2012 by waldo Quote
Claudius Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) But hey now, when the affectionately titled, 'King Ralph' openly admitted his government... had no plan... just exactly where would you like to lay the blame for what you presume on Alberta's difficulty, hey? Again with the childish strawman arguments. Please point out where I attempt to lay blame on the infrastructure on anyone? Nowhere. Keep trolling kid. Can you make even one post that doesn't rely on completely re-wording what someone says or applying your assumption of emotion to it? Apparently not.I said it makes it difficult to keep infrastructure up to date when your population is surging. This is inarguable which is why you dance around baloney arguments like this. Edited June 1, 2012 by Claudius Quote There is virtually no difference between the 3 major parties once they get into power.
Claudius Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) You were in error; repeatedly claiming a 25% population ratio increase. Yes and I admitted that error because I am an adult whereas your inability to admit that a population increase of 10% makes it difficult to keep infrastructure up to date proves you aren't and aren't honest. It doesn't change my point at all. My point stands whether it's 10% or 25%.Then there's also watching you pretend that the amount of people each province actually raised means something and the ratios are suddenly meaningless. Once again: Yes Ontario has grown by 2.5 times the number of people Alberta has grown by, but they also have 5.2 times the population from which to draw tax money from. Any reason you chose to dismiss that? lol! Like I said, did lowering that to 10% adjust your fake outrage by a corresponding ratio? More trolling and mischaracterization. I was never "outraged" about the ratio. You need to claim I was before it sounds like you even have the tiniest reason to keep on yammering. For the 100th time: Alberta is dealing with a population surge. This affects infrastructure. That you can't accept this simple point is predictable since you're only arguing to be a troll and don't have the slightest amount of sincerity to anything you post. Edited June 1, 2012 by Claudius Quote There is virtually no difference between the 3 major parties once they get into power.
waldo Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 Again with the childish strawman arguments. Please point out where I attempt to lay blame on the infrastructure on anyone? Nowhere. I said it makes it difficult to keep infrastructure up to date when your population is surging. This is inarguable which is why you dance around baloney arguments like this. and here I thought you were simply extending upon your hatin projection. So what's your point? Why the emphasis on playing out your ratio versus number, Ontario versus Alberta, comparative nonsense? And please, please... tie it back into the sausage, hey? Quote
Claudius Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) you're certainly quick to label anyone/everyone in this thread as being dishonest... it belies your weak arguments. That's because you are.This is dishonest: what factors allow you to so dismiss an Ontario population rise 2.5 times that of Alberta? Yes Ontario has grown by 2.5 times the number of people Alberta has grown by, but they also have 5.2 times the population from which to draw tax money from. Any reason you chose to dismiss that? lol!You don't like the fact that Alberta has grown by 10% and Ontario by less than 5% so you try to mask this and rearrange the numbers like a child trying to pound a round peg into a square hole. That's dishonest. Edited June 1, 2012 by Claudius Quote There is virtually no difference between the 3 major parties once they get into power.
waldo Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 Yes Ontario has grown by 2.5 times the number of people Alberta has grown by, but they also have 5.2 times the population from which to draw tax money from. Any reason you chose to dismiss that? lol! look, buddy... you need to better manage your royalty mismanagement frustrations - just sayin! Quote
Claudius Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) look, buddy... you need to better manage your royalty mismanagement frustrations - just sayin! And this is the reply we get from Mr.Honesty when he knows he's wrong. As soon as he gets cornered he tries to hide behind a nonsensical jab. Edited June 1, 2012 by Claudius Quote There is virtually no difference between the 3 major parties once they get into power.
Claudius Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) and here I thought you were simply extending upon your hatin projection. That must be because you can't read properly.So what's your point? Why the emphasis on playing out your ratio versus number, Ontario versus Alberta, comparative nonsense? And please, please... tie it back into the sausage, hey? The point was to counter someone elses contention that Alberta's infrastructure sucks and therefore it's a terrible place to live. This is also obvious to anyone who can read along and carry a conversation. My point was that in a population growth surge infrastructure which takes years will be behind.That's so obvious any child can understand it, but it doesn't surprise me that you can't (or simply refuse to which is probably closer to the truth) Edited June 1, 2012 by Claudius Quote There is virtually no difference between the 3 major parties once they get into power.
Claudius Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) No error, or at least the not the one in your imagination. It is telling though that once I admit a minor error that you leap at the opportunity to dishonestly cast the error as something else entirely. Like I say: no debating with those who can't be honest.Ontarios growth is less than 5%, while Alberta's was 10% in the same time period. It's obvious to anyone honest or intelligent that Ontario would only require less than 5% infrastructure increase while Alberta would require 10%. Which is higher Waldo? >5% or 10%? 5... count em... 5 LOL emoticions - heelarious (I'd add another but there's a posting limit rule I expect also limited your hee-haw and kept you to 5). You were in error; repeatedly claiming a 25% population ratio increase. Like I said, did lowering that to 10% adjust your fake outrage by a corresponding ratio? Hilarious to watch you squirm and dance to avoid the point illustrated in what you quote. There's that dishonesty again. Which is more Waldo? A 10% increase in population or 4%? That Ontario has more people and that the growth is more is irrelevant, what is it about that you fail to understand? That Ontario's growth amounts to 2.5 times the amount of people Alberta has grown by doesn't mean anything when you decide to also factor in the fact that Ontario is 5.4 times Albertas population. 10% increase is more than 4% increase waldo no matter how many games you want to play. Edited June 1, 2012 by Claudius Quote There is virtually no difference between the 3 major parties once they get into power.
MiddleClassCentrist Posted June 1, 2012 Author Report Posted June 1, 2012 Hilarious to watch you squirm and dance to avoid the point illustrated in what you quote. There's that dishonesty again. Which is more Waldo? A 10% increase in population or 4%? That Ontario has more people and that the growth is more is irrelevant, what is it about that you fail to understand? That Ontario's growth amounts to 2.5 times the amount of people Alberta has grown by doesn't mean anything when you decide to also factor in the fact that Ontario is 5.4 times Albertas population. 10% increase is more than 4% increase waldo no matter how many games you want to play. I have a deal for you. You give me 4% of $1 billion dollars. I'll give you 10% of $1 million dollars. You'll have more money in the end. Financially sound decision. Really though. If we keep this up we can get Claudius to 100 posts on the top poster list. Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
Claudius Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) I have a deal for you. You give me 4% of $1 billion dollars. I'll give you 10% of $1 million dollars. Are you really this dumb? I kinda doubt it. I think you're jsut faking this to keep on arguing a point you know you've lost. Your analogy has nothing to do with the reality here. I'll tell you what: You collect 5% taxes from Ontarios 12 million people and I'll collect 5% taxes from Alberta's 2.5 million. Which one of us will have more to spend on infrastructure Einstein? Seriously. They don't teach math in Ontario? They don't teach you about relative ratios, how to use them and why they're important? Hilarious. 10% population growth is more than 4% population growth no matter how many times you try to rearrange the numbers to make this look different. I can't believe you guys have spent 3 pages arguing the inarguable. Go back to school. Edited June 1, 2012 by Claudius Quote There is virtually no difference between the 3 major parties once they get into power.
Claudius Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) you're certainly quick to label anyone/everyone in this thread as being dishonest... it belies your weak arguments. My weak arguments. Hmmm.1. Canada's early immigration policy was designed to direct European farmers, mostly from the Ukraine and other slavic states as well as Germany to the Western provinces. Proved that. 2. That the Western provinces quickly gained a large amount on non-English immigrants and that this irked English speaking Ontario right from the beginning. Check. Also proved this. Edited June 1, 2012 by Claudius Quote There is virtually no difference between the 3 major parties once they get into power.
waldo Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 Again with the childish strawman arguments. hardly strawman - if you're going to whine about infrastructure management you need to tie principal causal ties to your whine... I offered up a couple of cheese tidbits to go with your whine: - Ralph Klein admits the Alberta government had no planning foresight - Alberta has been... and continues to 'give the Royalty farm' away planning and fiscal mismanagement... the cornerstones of your infrastructure whine! Quote
Claudius Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) hardly strawman - Hilarious. You say this:just exactly where would you like to lay the blame for what you presume on Alberta's difficulty, hey? and I point out that it's a strawman argument accusing me of trying to lay the blame on someone else when I never did that once, that's just you making false accusations again or not being able to read.Now because you don't quote the conversation you get to dishonestly assert I claimed something else was the strawman argument. if you're going to whine about infrastructure management you need to tie principal causal ties to your whine... Doesn't even make sense.I offered up a couple of cheese tidbits to go with your whine: - Ralph Klein admits the Alberta government had no planning foresight - Alberta has been... and continues to 'give the Royalty farm' away planning and fiscal mismanagement... the cornerstones of your infrastructure whine! And I continue to point out that a 10% population growth makes keeping up with infrastructure difficult. That's all I've ever said about it and yet again you must mischaracterize what I'm saying and why I'm saying it. It's not a whine, I'm simply pointing out the facts. That Ralph Klien "admits" something during an election is meaningless to my point. Or are you going to suggest that everything Ralph ever said was right on the money? Or is he just right when it's convenient for you? Edited June 1, 2012 by Claudius Quote There is virtually no difference between the 3 major parties once they get into power.
Claudius Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) Oh the games here are hilarious. You point out a simple thing like a 10% population growth is more than a 4% population growth and the dishonest children all gather around to point out that the 4% is more people (while trying to hide the fact they also have more people to collect taxes from, making the fact tht it's more people irrelevant -- which is why we use ratios. Any idiot can see the logic of that) Edited June 1, 2012 by Claudius Quote There is virtually no difference between the 3 major parties once they get into power.
Claudius Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) - Alberta has been... and continues to 'give the Royalty farm' away[/indent] Same old ignorant points. Alberta doesn't collect the same royalties as a places like Lybia or Nigeria because they also charge escrow accounts from the companies for reclamation and environmental insurance as well as pay their workers more than $1/day. To make it competitive Royalty rates suffer. Edited June 1, 2012 by Claudius Quote There is virtually no difference between the 3 major parties once they get into power.
waldo Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 And I continue to point out that a 10% population growth makes keeping up with infrastructure difficult. and I continue to point out you/the province of Alberta need to look inward to rationalize any expression on the difficulty in managing required infrastructure. You prefer to dispatch the inconvenient truth of Alberta government mismanagement as "strawman". Quote
Claudius Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 Still waiting for an answer here... I have a deal for you. You give me 4% of $1 billion dollars. I'll give you 10% of $1 million dollars. I'll tell you what: You collect 5% taxes from Ontarios 12 million people and I'll collect 5% taxes from Alberta's 2.5 million. Which one of us will have more to spend on infrastructure Einstein? Hmmm? Quote There is virtually no difference between the 3 major parties once they get into power.
waldo Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 Same old ignorant points. Alberta doesn't collect the same royalties as a places like Lybia or Nigeria because they also charge escrow accounts from the companies for reclamation and environmental insurance as well as pay their workers more than $1/day. To make it competitive Royalty rates suffer. that sounds like an ignorant excuse so as not to "ruffle" the feathers of BigOil, hey? Quote
Claudius Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) and I continue to point out you/the province of Alberta need to look inward to rationalize any expression on the difficulty in managing required infrastructure. Never denied this. That' not the argument we were having rememebr? You wee busy telling us all that 4% is somehow more than 10% remember? Not once have I blamed Albertas infrastructure on anyone else, not once. But repeatedly now you have pretended that's what I'm doing just so you can continue to argue.You prefer to dispatch the inconvenient truth of Alberta government mismanagement as "strawman". Nope. Now you're just plain lying. For the 3rd time: The argument I said was a strawman was the accusation that I'm blaming someone else. Again you prove you can't be honest and you can't read. Edited June 1, 2012 by Claudius Quote There is virtually no difference between the 3 major parties once they get into power.
waldo Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 Never denied this. That' not the argument we were having rememebr? You wee busy telling us all that 4% is somehow more than 10% remember? Not once have I blamed Albertas infrastructure on anyone else, not once. But repeatedly now you have pretending that's what I'm doing just so you can continue to argue.Nope. Now you're just plain lying. For the 3rd time: The argument I said was a strawman was the accusation that I'm blaming someone else. Again you prove you can't be honest and you can't read. you're arguing with yourself... are you winning? Quote
Claudius Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) Same old ignorant points.Alberta doesn't collect the same royalties as a places like Lybia or Nigeria because they also charge escrow accounts from the companies for reclamation and environmental insurance as well as pay their workers more than $1/day. To make it competitive Royalty rates suffer. that sounds like an ignorant excuse so as not to "ruffle" the feathers of BigOil, hey? Whatever. That's the reason the royalty rates are low. That you don't accept it and keep on yammering is predictable. Your reply here is really nothing. That you can't understand something simple such as the price of doing business in Alberta is made harder by environmental programs and higher wages than other countries doesn't surprise me one bit. I mean it's a pretty simple thing to understand but hey that doesn't mean you can. Edited June 1, 2012 by Claudius Quote There is virtually no difference between the 3 major parties once they get into power.
Claudius Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) you're arguing with yourself... are you winning? Yep. Just a dishonest immature troll who resorts to meaningless blather when it's been proven not only that he's wrong but that he can't act like an adult or argue honestly if his life depended on it. How come every time you quote an answer to your braindead questions you ignore it and just try to spout something "witty"? Are you hoping that your inability to counter will go un-noticed? Tell us some more Waldo about how 4% population growth is more than 10% or maybe show me where I assert Albertas infrastructure is someone elses fault. I'm sure you can do that since you accuse me of it non-stop. Edited June 1, 2012 by Claudius Quote There is virtually no difference between the 3 major parties once they get into power.
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