Argus Posted May 5, 2012 Report Posted May 5, 2012 Racist much? Stupid much? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
punked Posted May 5, 2012 Report Posted May 5, 2012 Stupid much? Nope. Although I am not the one who thinks immigration settlement programs are teaching immigrants how to use a toilet. "Hey guy who ran his own business in Turkey and how paid some 250,000 dollars to come to Canada let me show how to use a toilet." Yep that is what that 500 million dollars goes toward alright in a majority of cases for sure..... Quote
Argus Posted May 5, 2012 Report Posted May 5, 2012 Nope. Although I am not the one who thinks immigration settlement programs are teaching immigrants how to use a toilet. "Hey guy who ran his own business in Turkey and how paid some 250,000 dollars to come to Canada let me show how to use a toilet." Yep that is what that 500 million dollars goes toward alright in a majority of cases for sure..... Did I suggest that was the majority of cases? Do you think the majority of immigrants are business owners from urban areas? BTW, the one about building a campfire in the living room comes from actual experience. Do you know that in third world towns and cities it's not unusual for people to defecate in the streets? You don't think telling them that isn't legal in Canada might be of some importance? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
punked Posted May 5, 2012 Report Posted May 5, 2012 Did I suggest that was the majority of cases? Do you think the majority of immigrants are business owners from urban areas? BTW, the one about building a campfire in the living room comes from actual experience. Do you know that in third world towns and cities it's not unusual for people to defecate in the streets? You don't think telling them that isn't legal in Canada might be of some importance? Yah an actual experience when in 1970? We have immigration over haul several times from then. Yah I get you think all immigrants are savages. Racist much? You think we spend 500 million dollars because they all want to poop in the street. Quote
Jack Weber Posted May 5, 2012 Report Posted May 5, 2012 Perhaps if we were more careful in selecting our immigrants we wouldn't need to spend a half billion dollars teaching them what a toilet is for, that they can't build campfires in their living rooms, and that women wearing short sleeve shirts are not to automatically be considered prostitutes. Maybe a proper selection of immigrants would not require us to teach them that when they're supposed to be at work at nine that means AT nine, not sometime in the morning. And maybe they'd be able to communicate in the local language without us paying for classes to teach them. And maybe they'd have some sort of skill which is in demand so they wouldn't need help finding a job. So...I take it you would prefer that we select immigrants from English speaking countries that have a high standard of living and level of education??? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Argus Posted May 5, 2012 Report Posted May 5, 2012 Yah an actual experience when in 1970? We have immigration over haul several times from then. Yah I get you think all immigrants are savages. Racist much? You think we spend 500 million dollars because they all want to poop in the street. Why don't you tell me why we spend 500 million dollars, genius? I mean, according to your ilk these are all highly 'skilled' immigrants here. Why do we need to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on 'resettlement'? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 5, 2012 Report Posted May 5, 2012 So...I take it you would prefer that we select immigrants from English speaking countries that have a high standard of living and level of education??? I'd prefer we select immigrants who are as close to us, culturally, technologically, and socially speaking as possible. So yes, that would be the ideal. And your comeback will be that they don't want to come here in large enough numbers. And my comeback is that we don't try to recruit them any more. There is no effort by the government to advertise for immigrants in Europe. It sets targets based on visa offices in different cities around the world. The largest targets are New Delhi, Manila, and Hong Kong. Here's a suggestion. Why don't we open visa offices in Dublin and Glasgow, and put a few ads in the local tabloids? For that matter, how about opening visa offices in Madrid? Not all of them have perfect English but I bet a 50% unemployment rate for those 25 and under would be a hell of an impetus to learn. Open a storefront office with posters in the windows "Come live in Canada". Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Jack Weber Posted May 5, 2012 Report Posted May 5, 2012 (edited) I'd prefer we select immigrants who are as close to us, culturally, technologically, and socially speaking as possible. So yes, that would be the ideal. And your comeback will be that they don't want to come here in large enough numbers. And my comeback is that we don't try to recruit them any more. There is no effort by the government to advertise for immigrants in Europe. It sets targets based on visa offices in different cities around the world. The largest targets are New Delhi, Manila, and Hong Kong. Here's a suggestion. Why don't we open visa offices in Dublin and Glasgow, and put a few ads in the local tabloids? For that matter, how about opening visa offices in Madrid? Not all of them have perfect English but I bet a 50% unemployment rate for those 25 and under would be a hell of an impetus to learn. Open a storefront office with posters in the windows "Come live in Canada". Interesting...Not only that you seem to know in advance what I was going to say,but... It's notable that your first choice would be cities in the UK...After that,a city in a non-English speaking European country... So,it may not be out and out bigotry that's driving your thought processes on the subject...But it would be fair to say it's a little bit of xenophobia tinged with a hint of cultural superiority... Edited May 5, 2012 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
jacee Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 (edited) Why Canada needs a flood of immigrants Between now and 2021, a million jobs are expected to go unfilled across Canada. Ottawa is making reforms to the immigration system but isn't going far enough. We need to radically boost immigration numbers. With the right people, Canada can be an innovative world power. Without them, we'll drain away our potential. ... Ottawa's plan falls short When immigrants arrive, they not only fill gaps in the work force but pay taxes and spend money on housing, transport and consumer goods. Productive capacity increases and there is a ripple effect across the economy. And studies show that their offspring tend to be among the country's best-educated and initiative- taking young people. It's not that the federal government is blind to the issue. Citizenship and Immigration Minister Jason Kenney is crossing the country to promote his reforms of the system, trying to make it more responsive to the needs of employers and the economy. But he says he has no intention of boosting the actual number of immigrants Canada admits annually, despite demands from nearly every provincial government. On that level, the federal plan seems inadequate to the looming challenge. It seems to me that among HarperCons, the only thing more important than the economy is bigotry. Edited May 6, 2012 by jacee Quote
cybercoma Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 Why don't you tell me why we spend 500 million dollars, genius? I mean, according to your ilk these are all highly 'skilled' immigrants here. Why do we need to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on 'resettlement'? There should be an internet rule that as soon as someone says "your ilk" they lose. Quote
capricorn Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 Why Canada needs a flood of immigrants A flood of immigrants? Hogwash. How many immigrants should Canada admit every year?Immigration Minister Jason Kenney’s recent efforts to reform Canada’s immigrant selection policies will improve the efficiency of the system, will treat applicants more fairly and increase the economic prospects of immigrants. --- No economic rationale exists for the current target of about a quarter-million immigrants a year, which as a per cent of the population is the highest of any country in the world. Politicians justify it with vague references to its influence on Canada’s economic growth rate; the need to meet prospective labour and skills shortages; to finance social benefits for an aging population; to create a multicultural society; to help alleviate poverty abroad and others. None of these arguments are valid if immigration policies are aimed at maximizing the well-being of Canadians. Thus, immigrants add to aggregate national income, but if their personal incomes are below average, they impose a fiscal burden on taxpayers because of the country’s progressive income taxes and the universality of benefits. Labour shortages can be aggravated since immigrants cause the construction of more housing, infrastructure and the need for more social and medical services. Actuaries have shown that immigrants cannot significantly reduce the unfunded liabilities of social programs since they too age and become entitled to benefits. Non-economic arguments involve value judgments impossible to measure and leave open important questions about the merit of alleviating poverty abroad rather than in Canada and about the benefits from multiculturalism relative to the risk of endangering traditional values, culture and social cohesion. --- Focusing on the economic issues alone, the problem of determining the optimum rate of immigration can and should be solved through the use of market signals provided through the use of prearranged employment contracts. This criterion should be applied to all applicants, who would be accompanied by their immediate family. It would also provide the added benefit of varying efficiently the number of immigrants with fluctuations in the demand for labour during business cycles. http://immigrationreform.ca/CMFiles/Commentary/How%20many%20immigrants%20do%20we%20need.pdf It seems to me that among HarperCons, the only thing more important than the economy is bigotry. And it seems to me that your m.o. is to be hateful toward those who don't share your view of the world. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Jack Weber Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 A flood of immigrants? Hogwash. http://immigrationreform.ca/CMFiles/Commentary/How%20many%20immigrants%20do%20we%20need.pdf And it seems to me that your m.o. is to be hateful toward those who don't share your view of the world. I agree that there are elements within the socially democratic left that read bigotry and racism into many things... It's fair to say that goes both ways,though... We have a certain member here who feels "smart immigration" would be better served if we simply selected more people from the British Isles,and failing that,perhaps the non-English speaking portions of Europe... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Argus Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 Interesting...Not only that you seem to know in advance what I was going to say,but... It's notable that your first choice would be cities in the UK...After that,a city in a non-English speaking European country... So,it may not be out and out bigotry that's driving your thought processes on the subject...But it would be fair to say it's a little bit of xenophobia tinged with a hint of cultural superiority... Even someone who actually knew how to practice psychoanalysis would know better than to try and figure out someone else's motivation without ever having met them. The only thing you got right is the cultural superiority part. And why shouldn't I feel a sense of cultural superiority towards the f*cked up places we get most of our immigrants from? And yes, my first choices would be cities in technologically and culturally advanced English speaking countries. Why wouldn't that make sense? Can you think of any logical reason why we should NOT be selecting people from those countries first provided there are enough qualified people who want to come here? We certainly wouldn't need to spend half a billion dollars on 'resettlement' every year, whatever the hell that means. You think we'll need to spend a lot of money teaching an Englishman or Scotsman or Irishman how to adapt to Canada? And as I already posted, the ability to communicate in English is one of the major issues barring the economic success of immigrants here. We might have to spend a bit of time teaching the Scotsmen to speak English, but it'd be far easier than teaching a Somalian... Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 (edited) I agree that there are elements within the socially democratic left that read bigotry and racism into many things... It's fair to say that goes both ways,though... We have a certain member here who feels "smart immigration" would be better served if we simply selected more people from the British Isles,and failing that,perhaps the non-English speaking portions of Europe... Suppose you tell us all, from your learned perspective, why that would not be a perfectly logical thing to do. After all, we KNOW that you're not one of those lefties who reads racism into many things, so you have a sound economic and/or social argument behind wanting to take immigrants from Iran and Pakistan and the Phillipines instead of England, Ireland and Scotland. It couldn't possibly be just your knee jerk left wing reaction to someone suggesting 'white countries' might produce better immigrants than 'brown countries', I'm sure... Edited May 6, 2012 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 There should be an internet rule that as soon as someone says "your ilk" they lose. Why? Does it fail to adequately convey my contempt? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 (edited) It seems to me that among HarperCons, the only thing more important than the economy is bigotry. An out-of-the-blue insult directed at the Conservatives for no particular reason but you think it's nice to call people names. Which, I suppose, pretty much sums of the mindset behind those who feel immigration is doing a great job. They do tend to be pretty much knowledge-free about the subject matter, and full of hate for anyone who disagrees. If you actually read the cite you posted - which I doubt, since it was clearly too many words for your flighty mind to bother with - you'd notice that the examples he used of helpful immigration were mostly from European countries. He also failed to mention the number of failed immigrants, the number immigrants in jail and in welfare housing, or to back up any of his statements with actual demographic studies. Canada will have a million jobs unfilled! Oh the crisis! The crisis! Wait, didn't they say that twenty years ago too? This is simply the usual drivel spewed out by big business to push the government into letting it bring in ever more immigrants to keep wages low. Edited May 6, 2012 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
cybercoma Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 Why? Does it fail to adequately convey my contempt? I've done it many times myself. What fails to do is make a logical argument. It just shows contempt, showing that the person is not interested in having a rational conversation about the topic because they're too emotionally invested in it. Quote
jbg Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 Why does Canada have a greater obligation to "refugees", most of whom probably come for economic reasons, than to its own citizens? If I decide I want free health care should I just drive about 450 kms north and put myself on your doorstep? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
punked Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 Why does Canada have a greater obligation to "refugees", most of whom probably come for economic reasons, than to its own citizens? If I decide I want free health care should I just drive about 450 kms north and put myself on your doorstep? No if you want "Free health care" you should vote for politicians who will enact such a program. Quote
jbg Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 No if you want "Free health care" you should vote for politicians who will enact such a program. You missed my point by alot. I am saying that many, but not all "refugees" are not fleeing persecution; they're fleeing poverty. Since they have no discernible work or professional skills, they are likely to receive benefits, even if that is not the primary motive for migration. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
punked Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 You missed my point by alot. I am saying that many, but not all "refugees" are not fleeing persecution; they're fleeing poverty. Since they have no discernible work or professional skills, they are likely to receive benefits, even if that is not the primary motive for migration. Persecution-Can be a refugee in Canada Poverty- You get sent home Seriously do you not understand our rules to refugee claims? Quote
cybercoma Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 I would just like to point out that refugees get medical care in the US too. Except if the government doesn't cover, the hospitals are stuck with the bill. Quote
jbg Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 Persecution-Can be a refugee in Canada Poverty- You get sent home Seriously do you not understand our rules to refugee claims? I do. But it takes years to winnow those who need to go home. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
punked Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 I do. But it takes years to winnow those who need to go home. The price we pay for freedom I guess. Quote
jbg Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 I do. But it takes years to winnow those who need to go home. The price we pay for freedom I guess. I have always favored full funding for immigration so that these cases can be disposed of promptly. Someone who comes in through a gateway should ideally be heard and processed almost immediately to determine if they are a refugee from persecution or from poverty. These cases are not rocket science. If someone is fleeing persecution they should be able to explain themselves. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
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