Grow the Eff up Quebec!

[Boges]

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1168168--violent-student-uprising-over-tuition-hikes-sparks-talk-of-quebec-spring?bn=1

MONTREAL—Quebecers are waking up to a mess this morning far beyond the smashed windows and shards of glass being swept off the streets of their largest city.

The intensity of student unrest in the province was illustrated by riotous scenes that unfolded Wednesday night in Montreal.

Banks and other businesses, cars, even a police station had their windows shattered by an angry mob that spilled out from a larger crowd of thousands of student protesters.

Police said early today that 85 people were arrested, including at least three minors, and that three police officers suffered unspecified injuries.

Their furious reaction came after talks broke off between the provincial government and student groups seeking an end to an 11-week battle over tuition hikes.

After the talks were suspended Wednesday, the leader of the most militant student group, Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois, warned: “All this does is pour oil on the fire.”

The trouble then erupted over several hours as students swarmed the streets and frequently battled with police.

The events that subsequently transpired will have Quebecers asking: What now?

An absence of easy answers was repeatedly underscored by Wednesday’s developments.

Welcome to the real world where the price of stuff goes up all the time.

I wonder what the world would think if Ontario rioted over the price of electricity.

I like this though.

Some students are now casting this as a deeper struggle — with the phrase, “Quebec Spring,” emanating from the lips of several protesters who Wednesday issued a medley of demands: the resignation of Premier Jean Charest, a general election, the complete elimination of tuition, or even broader social change.

Yes compare your plight as a student to the plight of Arabs in countries where similar actions as you've shown would result in much harsher violence and perhaps death.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Boges

[Guest Manny]

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1168168--violent-student-uprising-over-tuition-hikes-sparks-talk-of-quebec-spring?bn=1

Welcome to the real world where the price of stuff goes up all the time.

So people should just roll over and take it? Ok.

Let's spend some more taxpayer money to shore up the banks. They're not making more than $1 Billion in profit... they need to keep making more money each year for the system to work. Prices of stuff does go up all the time.

[Boges]

So people should just roll over and take it? Ok.

Let's spend some more taxpayer money to shore up the banks. They're not making more than $1 Billion in profit... they need to keep making more money each year for the system to work. Prices of stuff does go up all the time.

The Quebec government gave money to the banks? When did this happen?

[GostHacked]

I think I said in other threads that we would see this kind of stuff happening here in Canada. I really hate being right.

[Wild Bill]

I think I said in other threads that we would see this kind of stuff happening here in Canada. I really hate being right.

It's just human nature, GH. Especially among the young. They aren't thinking logically. They simply want what they want! They want free tuition and think all they need to do is practice a sufficiently high level of violence and it will be given to them.

They are not thinking at all about where the money will come from. They don't think about higher taxes, or old folks not getting any increase in their pensions, or even if their province went bankrupt!

It is the thinking of a child. Scream and holler and someone will give you a cookie! Baking those cookies or even growing wheat for flour is someone else's problem, not theirs.

It might be a good time to cull the herd to improve the gene pool.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Wild Bill

[Topaz]

I still they they should boycott schools if they feel so strong about it. Lets look at this, isn't it good for the country if people are educated? The government is going to bring in foreign workers to do the jobs out west and I think some of engineers which require university education. Are we going about education the wrong way? Should people have to create a huge debt to get an education? Should omit the colleges and universities and get the education through companies to teach what they want the workers to know, like on the job training? I can understand the student point but not the way they are going about it.

[msj]

Yeah, those Quebecers should riot over something important like losing game 7 in the Stanley Cup playoffs.

[Boges]

Yeah, those Quebecers should riot over something important like losing game 7 in the Stanley Cup playoffs.

Well those riots lasted one night. These having been going on for like a month.

[Rick]

I think I said in other threads that we would see this kind of stuff happening here in Canada. I really hate being right.

I know I've repeatedly said this was inevitable and I'm happy to know I am right.

Canadian Spring is a reality and this country will become even more militant with the growing gap between rich and poor, between the right wing Harper fascists and those of us who want our country back.

[Rick]

It might be a good time to cull the herd to improve the gene pool.

Ridding this country of fascist Harperites?

Now that's something I'd wholeheartedly support.

[msj]

Well those riots lasted one night. These having been going on for like a month.

Um, because they are more meaningful than a stupid hockey game?

[Boges]

Um, because they are more meaningful than a stupid hockey game?

So Rioting over education is supposed to get results?

Why isn't the NDP running in the next provincial election and making this a plank on their election platform?

That's how you effect change in democracy. I have nothing against demonstrating, but violence doesn't effect the type of change you'd want.

In Egypt they didn't riot, they stood in a circle for weeks and the dictator they wanted removed finally gave up.

[nittanylionstorm07]

So Rioting over education is supposed to get results?

Why isn't the NDP running in the next provincial election and making this a plank on their election platform?

That's how you effect change in democracy. I have nothing against demonstrating, but violence doesn't effect the type of change you'd want.

In Egypt they didn't riot, they stood in a circle for weeks and the dictator they wanted removed finally gave up.

You clearly don't understand Quebec politics at all.

Though I would not be surprised at all if a provincial NDP repops up as provincial politics shift from the sovereigntist vs. federalist debate back to a traditional left vs. right debate.

[Boges]

You clearly don't understand Quebec politics at all.

Though I would not be surprised at all if a provincial NDP repops up as provincial politics shift from the sovereigntist vs. federalist debate back to a traditional left vs. right debate.

You're right I don't. Enlighten me. Are there examples of rioting effecting political change in Quebec.

The October Crisis perhaps? If PET was in power, would anyone be surprised if he declared Marshall Law.

[nittanylionstorm07]

You're right I don't. Enlighten me. Are there examples of rioting effecting political change in Quebec.

The October Crisis perhaps? If PET was in power, would anyone be surprised if he declared Marshall Law.

Really?

[Boges]

Really?

That's essentially what the War Measures Act is.

[nittanylionstorm07]

That's essentially what the War Measures Act is.

You should move to the US. You would fit in quite well in the south.

[Boges]

You should move to the US. You would fit in quite well in the south.

Huh?

I was just comparing this event to a historical event.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Crisis

The October Crisis (French: La crise d'octobre) was a series of events triggered by two kidnappings of government officials by members of the Front de libération du Québec (FLQ) during October 1970 in the province of Quebec, mainly in the Montreal metropolitan area.

The circumstances ultimately culminated in the only peacetime use of the War Measures Act in Canada's history, done by Governor General of Canada Roland Michener at the direction of Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau, having been requested by the Premier of Quebec, Robert Bourassa, and the Mayor of Montreal, Jean Drapeau.

The invocation of the act resulted in widespread deployment of Canadian Forces troops throughout Quebec, and in Ottawa gave the appearance that martial law had been imposed, although the military remained in a support role to the civil authorities of Quebec. The police were also enabled with far-reaching powers, and they arrested and detained, without bail, 497 individuals, all but 62 of whom were later released without charges.

I heard a Toronto radio personality from Quebec compare what's going on in Quebec to the October Crisis.

Imagine in Stephen Harper did what PET did then? People would freak.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Boges

[Bonam]

The riots are BS. Quebec tuition is already absurdly low, many times lower than it is for students in most other provinces. Quebec leeches need to learn to pay for stuff themselves rather than expect someone else to keep picking up the tab.

[Shakeyhands]

You're right I don't. Enlighten me. Are there examples of rioting effecting political change in Quebec.

The October Crisis perhaps? If PET was in power, would anyone be surprised if he declared Marshall Law.

Really?

Yeah... Really!!!!

Set in Melbourne, Marshall Law tells the story of two sisters - Ros and Verity Marshall (played by Lisa McCune, popular after her seven-year run on Blue Heelers; and Alison Whyte, well known for her role on Frontline) - working at the Magistrate's Court. Ros is a Junior Prosecutor who is more interested in partying, and is having to prove her worth at the bench; while the more-experienced and overachieving Verity is now working as a barrister. Both sisters soon find themselves in for surprises.

[nittanylionstorm07]

Yeah... Really!!!!

Set in Melbourne, Marshall Law tells the story of two sisters - Ros and Verity Marshall (played by Lisa McCune, popular after her seven-year run on Blue Heelers; and Alison Whyte, well known for her role on Frontline) - working at the Magistrate's Court. Ros is a Junior Prosecutor who is more interested in partying, and is having to prove her worth at the bench; while the more-experienced and overachieving Verity is now working as a barrister. Both sisters soon find themselves in for surprises.

Oh God... save Quebec from this young female soap opera!

[fellowtraveller]

What now?

In the short term, looks like many Quebec students will have lost an entire year of school.

Since in Quebec as in all provinces tuition is heavily subsidized by taxpayers, many of those students are going to expect yet another year of subsidy to make up the time lost this year.

Personally, I think it would be an effective life lesson to let undergrads know that the fees are going up, and they get four years of subsidy so they are on their own for full price(around $20K) for the year they chose to waste.

An interesting factoid is that these fee increases have no effect on poor students since the Quebec govt increased bursaries to low income kids in conjunction with the fee increases. Only those that can afford it are getting bumped.

Edited April 26, 2012 by fellowtraveller

[GostHacked]

It's just human nature, GH. Especially among the young. They aren't thinking logically. They simply want what they want! They want free tuition and think all they need to do is practice a sufficiently high level of violence and it will be given to them.

They are not protesting for free tuition. They are protesting (like what happened in the UK) the huge hike in tuition fees. IN the UK the fees were raised by a factor of 3. What would cost a student 5000 would now cost that student 15000.

The issue is the same in Quebec.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/03/21/f-tuitionfees.html

Tens of thousands of students filled the streets of Montreal Thursday in a mass protest against a planned hike in tuition fees that they say will undermine Quebec's long-standing commitment to keeping university education accessible to people of all incomes.

The 75 per cent increase in post-secondary education tuition fees was included in the budget the Liberal government of Premier Jean Charest tabled Tuesday but has been anticipated for some time and had already been forecast in the 2011 budget.

The increase will see fees for Quebec residents rise by $325 a year for five years, starting in the 2012-13 academic year and continuing until 2016-2017.

They are not thinking at all about where the money will come from. They don't think about higher taxes, or old folks not getting any increase in their pensions, or even if their province went bankrupt!

You are missing the real reason which is the tuition hikes. This will make education simply unaffordable to many. How much debt are you willing to take on for the education you want?

It is the thinking of a child. Scream and holler and someone will give you a cookie! Baking those cookies or even growing wheat for flour is someone else's problem, not theirs.

It might be a good time to cull the herd to improve the gene pool.

Can they start with you?

[fellowtraveller]

This will make education simply unaffordable to many.

that is simply not factual in the context of the Quebec tuition hikes.

[Wild Bill]

Ridding this country of fascist Harperites?

Now that's something I'd wholeheartedly support.

No, ridding our gene pool of those stupid enough to think that anything they want they can have for free!

Economies don't work by magic! Government money only comes from taxes on every citizen. To give free tuition means that either more taxes must be raised or some people must get less back from the goverment. This is simple math!

What's more, violence breeds violence. For every Quebec rioter there is some pensioner trying to survive who will read about them in the paper and resent some young student who will likely eventually become a rich lawyer who wants to get his schooling for free on the pensioner's back!

So you end up with resentment within other demographics of the population. If it goes on long enough we will eventually have everyone hating everyone else!

Frankly, I resent these Quebec rioters and while you might think you just have to scold me and I'll change my mind you might find that I'm far from the only one who feels this way.

To me, they seem like spoiled, greedy leeches! Hypocrites who make capitalists like Conrad Black look like Mother Theresa! They are really just looking for a fascist state that THEY control!