The official, what’s your favourite and my wife won’t let me get this

[kimmy]

A standing position is the most difficult to shoot accurate with prone (on your belly) being the easiest……If you get proficient and can hit what you aim at standing out to ~200 yards, you’re doing pretty good

I figured that it was probably the hardest position to shoot from, and the most realistic. Probably most situations where you're going to be under pressure to shoot well aren't going to come with a rest or a tripod...

This is very true! You get caught with a high capacity magazine, sans the pin, there’s a good chance you’ll be going to jail. As I said though, there are many loopholes, for instance there are several makers of 5.56/.223 calibre pistols that have mags that just happen to fit into a AR-15, hence a perfectly legal 10 round mag.

I knew there are pistol-chambered rifles, but I didn't realize there were rifle-chambered pistols.

And of course, there’s no restrictions on mag capacities for Bolt, lever or pump action center fire rifles and shotguns. (And as mentioned no limit on .22lr Rifles, but 10 round limit for .22lr handguns)

Is that because 22LR is wimpy, or is it because of the calibre, or because it's rimfire? I gather that some of the other small-calibre rimfire rounds like .17HMR or .22WMR pack a lot more wallop than .22LR... are they completely unrestricted too?

Silvercore

It will cost you $30 bucks a year and will allow you to take your handgun, as much or as little to your local gun range as you want and pay their drop in fee (mostly just $5-10 bucks a visit) and/or join the local club.

Thanks, will look into it.

I’d defiantly suggest once you’ve got your Nagant, pick-up an SKS and a Lee Enfield no 4.…..Even if you don’t shoot them often (You will though) they will be worth a lot of money in 20-30 years…

Have looked into the SKS and it might be my 4th gun (if I'm not all gunned out after the .22, the Mosin, and the shotgun...) I don't find it to be nearly as aesthetically pretty as the Nagant, but a gun with a built-in sword sounds handy. And I have never read anybody say anything bad about an SKS, other than that there are no real hunting rounds for it (except zombie-hunting, of course) and that it's not suitable for shooting anything larger than a deer. There seems to be unanimous agreement that the construction and reliability and the fun-factor are all top tier. It sounds like a perfect "yahoo" gun. (as in "Yahoo! Let's go blast some stuff!")

It’s quite possible those $200 Nagants and SKS’s will be worth some good money in a decade or so……..The only problem with Soviet Rifles is that they use Soviet ammo, and though you can buy surplus rather cheap still, who knows how long that will last, .303 British use to be cheap but is getting expensive.

Given the incredible popularity of AK47 guns and copycats, I expect there is a huge market for 7.62x39 ammo that manufacturers will want to cash in on. I imagine it'll be around for as long as I need it. The 7.62x54R ammo, on the other hand, doesn't seem nearly as popular in North America, which is my one hesitation about the Mosin.

I see that Ruger even makes Hawkeye and Mini-30 rifles for 7.62x39. From what I've read, I get the impression it's an almost perfect round for somebody my size-- pretty powerful and yet manageable in terms of recoil.

I can certainly understand your sentiments and many people also have that fear concern in the back of their minds………Is a SHTF type scenario possible? I would say unlikely, but having the ability and skill sets to take care of yourself and family members certainly isn’t a bad idea (And would help quell any possible fears), but having the ability to fish/hunt, start a fire, perform first aid etc are also transferable “life skills” that can certainly be useful (and fun) in your regular day to day life.

It's not strictly a matter of wanting to be prepared for some sort of doomsday scenario... it's also that I'd like to someday have that sort of independence. My great-grandparents lived in the most rustic conditions, and I know that they are neither stronger or smarter than me, just equipped with the skills and experience to do so. I'm exceptionally clever and capable, and I could learn those things too. Someday I would like to live in circumstances where it simply wouldn't affect me if a Zombie Apocalypse or complete social or economic meltdown did happen.

For firearms specifically, it’s also one of “culture” and how an individual was “brought up”……My parents and myself (and most of my family) have always leaned toward the sporting aspect namely, with some members also having served in the military…….Some people grew up in the bush or on a farm where a gun was just another tool……..

I often think of my great-grandmother heading off to do her gardening with a bucket and trowel in one hand and her pump-action rifle in the other. That was how she did things, even into her 90s. She had a lot of concerns... but coyotes and blackbears weren't among them. Things were just a little different in the far north of Alberta where they settled.

And some, like my wife, grew up in situations where a gun was used in the about aspects, but also as a tool for self defence…….Her growing up in South Africa in the 60s & 70s & 80s, it was to norm in the rural parts to have firearms for hunting and full automatics for self defence.

Yikes, is she a Boer? As I understand things, that's one of the most hazardous things in the world. I am glad she is in Canada and not there anymore.

As I’ve said, for those on a budget, surplus battle rifles are most defiantly a good choice. They’re made to last, be operated in horrendous conditions, dropped, kicked, dirty, wet etc and maintained by a 17 year old. As far as commercial firearms goes, in terms of reliability and best value for money, hands down, in my opinion and millions of other shooters, Ruger is the way to go.

That's kind of why I've settled on the Mosin for now and maybe the SKS... they're super affordable and they sound like they're plenty adequate for my purposes at this time. And who knows, if something terrible happens maybe I'll be grateful for the durability and reliability of a real actual war-proven gun.

By the way, I really appreciate all the n00b advice you've given me. I probably won't be able to post much for a few days, so if you don't hear from me for a while, don't assume the zombies got me.

-k

[Guest Derek L]

I figured that it was probably the hardest position to shoot from, and the most realistic. Probably most situations where you're going to be under pressure to shoot well aren't going to come with a rest or a tripod...

Nail.Head.Hammer……..From hunting to combat a standing position is the most common.

I knew there are pistol-chambered rifles, but I didn't realize there were rifle-chambered pistols.

You better believe it:

Robinson Armament XCR-L Micro Pistol .223

Robinson Armament XCR Rifle .223

You can also purchase a “conversion kit” for the XCR that let’s you change it from .223 to 7.62x39 to 6.8 Rem in a couple of minutes………And both .223 versions take NATO Standard mags.

Is that because 22LR is wimpy, or is it because of the calibre, or because it's rimfire? I gather that some of the other small-calibre rimfire rounds like .17HMR or .22WMR pack a lot more wallop than .22LR... are they completely unrestricted too?

A little of all three……..When comparing a .22lr bullet with a .223 bullet, they are nearly the same size, but the center fire .223 has a much bigger casing with a bigger cartridge, hence “more power”, but very little kick.

Have looked into the SKS and it might be my 4th gun (if I'm not all gunned out after the .22, the Mosin, and the shotgun...) I don't find it to be nearly as aesthetically pretty as the Nagant, but a gun with a built-in sword sounds handy. And I have never read anybody say anything bad about an SKS, other than that there are no real hunting rounds for it (except zombie-hunting, of course) and that it's not suitable for shooting anything larger than a deer. There seems to be unanimous agreement that the construction and reliability and the fun-factor are all top tier. It sounds like a perfect "yahoo" gun. (as in "Yahoo! Let's go blast some stuff!")

This is true, but not so much in part due to the calibre, but the available bullet types………..When you get into Military surplus ammo, it’s all FMJ (Full Metal Jacket) in part due to the rules of war……A FMJ round will enter a person and most likely exit……..Versus hunting ammo, which is soft tipped and will expand (thus causing a massive wound) and kill the target faster, AKA “Stopping Power”…….The Police use “hollow points”, which are soft tipped and hollow, with the reasoning that they want to stop their target in their tracks and also, since there is a greater possibility of bystanders present, a hollow point won’t go through a person like a FMJ would and possibly hit a innocent person.

As for hunting calibre, a 30 cal round (.303, 30-06, .308 etc) will most certainly drop a Moose. For sizing of calibre, in case you didn’t know, it’s based on an imperial measurement…….A .50 Cal round is half inch in diameter…..the various .30 cal rounds roughly 1/3rd an inch, .20 cal ~¼ inch etc.

Typical hunting rounds are either .30 cal or .20 cal Magnums (small bullet with a big casing “full of power” ) Some people prefer a big heavy round (Myself) that is less effected by wind, but more effected by Gravity due to weight, hence less range…..A magnum has a small bullet, that travels far and fast, but is more effected by wind……..

Now you can judge this debate for yourself and figure who's right, but I will add that police/military snipers typically use .308 Win, .338 Lapua and .50 BMG

Given the incredible popularity of AK47 guns and copycats, I expect there is a huge market for 7.62x39 ammo that manufacturers will want to cash in on. I imagine it'll be around for as long as I need it. The 7.62x54R ammo, on the other hand, doesn't seem nearly as popular in North America, which is my one hesitation about the Mosin.

I see that Ruger even makes Hawkeye and Mini-30 rifles for 7.62x39. From what I've read, I get the impression it's an almost perfect round for somebody my size-- pretty powerful and yet manageable in terms of recoil.

The vast majority of Russian calibre ammo you’ll find is typically surplus military, and now generally from the 70s, 80s and early 90s and Ill give it to them, they made lots of it, just like their rifles……..As for the North American commercial market, a lot of ammo makers due make the Russian calibers, but it’s basically the same in terms of cost as other popular rounds.

For example:

Hornady 7.62x39 or 50 rounds for ~ $45 bucks

versus surplus:

Czech Military Surplus 7.62x39 or 1200 rounds for $225 bucks

Now you mentioned a rifle that truly warms my heart (and puts fear into the anti-gun folk) The Ruger "Mini line"…..Why is this rifle so popular with gun owners? Simple, it’s linage you see, the semi auto action (What makes the rifle tick) in the Mini 14/30 traces itself back to another popular rifle, the M-14 (what Pvt Pile blows his brains out with in the movie FMJ) and the M-14 traces itself back to the M1 Garand WW II battle rifle………What other products might Ruger make with such a linage you might ask? Why none other then the 10/22.

Now I've got both a Mini-14 (.223) and a Mini-30 (7.62x39), plus another one of each on backorder, and I will tell you, they are both great rifles in terms of use, reliability and maintenance, with the only possible detractor being they have a reputation of not being the most accurate past 200-300 yards, which is true in some respects, but the rifle was never meant to be a sniper rifle (despite what the NDP might say), and is a very good utility/ranch rifle and worth ever penny……Also, with the demise of the long gun registry, they are very hard to find and don’t stay in stores all that long…….Which is a credit to Ruger, since like many other makers, they could have lowered standards and fanned out production to other countries to feed demand, but they didn’t, and the price for one new is still less then $1000

And you also mentioned their M77 line, another quality rifle that’s bolt action design is based of the very successful German Mauser dual lugged bolt and extractor…..For what they cost, they too are a very good deal……..Now their new version, designed around the M77 frame added to specs deemed required to meet the standards of the late Jeff Cooper (One of the Gun Disciples) is being marketed as a perfect SHTF guns, the Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle. I've yet to get one, but it one the list.

It's not strictly a matter of wanting to be prepared for some sort of doomsday scenario... it's also that I'd like to someday have that sort of independence. My great-grandparents lived in the most rustic conditions, and I know that they are neither stronger or smarter than me, just equipped with the skills and experience to do so. I'm exceptionally clever and capable, and I could learn those things too. Someday I would like to live in circumstances where it simply wouldn't affect me if a Zombie Apocalypse or complete social or economic meltdown did happen.

Hey, whatever blows your hair back I too, along with most of the family enjoy nature and “roughing it” when we go hunting/fishing/Camping…..Like the Licence plate says, Beautiful British Columbia

I often think of my great-grandmother heading off to do her gardening with a bucket and trowel in one hand and her pump-action rifle in the other. That was how she did things, even into her 90s. She had a lot of concerns... but coyotes and blackbears weren't among them. Things were just a little different in the far north of Alberta where they settled.

I think for myself namely living in cities most my life, and my father who came from Scotland, there is a definite allure to the “simple things”.

Yikes, is she a Boer? As I understand things, that's one of the most hazardous things in the world. I am glad she is in Canada and not there anymore.

She sure is, and her family certainly has some interesting stories going back generations to when they first settled on the Veldt from Holland…….Much like the early settlers in the “Wild West” moving into “Indian Territory”, only their journey never quite saw what we would deem civilized society taking root……She still has some cousins and friends there, and truth be told, the consensus amongst most Afrikaners is that it’s rapidly getting worse, due in part to many reasons, namely the Post Apartheid white exodus and the increase of refugees/Illegal immigrants and general lawlessness.

That's kind of why I've settled on the Mosin for now and maybe the SKS... they're super affordable and they sound like they're plenty adequate for my purposes at this time. And who knows, if something terrible happens maybe I'll be grateful for the durability and reliability of a real actual war-proven gun.

Well I don’t have a Nagant, but you certainly wouldn’t be disappointed with an SKS…….Both guns, coupled with a 10/22 and a good quality 870 pump action shotgun, would certainly suit your purposes, and as long as you maintain them, should last you for decades without any problems………

By the way, I really appreciate all the n00b advice you've given me. I probably won't be able to post much for a few days, so if you don't hear from me for a while, don't assume the zombies got me.

-k

Think nothing of it, and I’m glad I could help…….

[Shakeyhands]

Kimmy, I don't think Derek was firm enough with his answer to the Bear and .22LR comment. If I ran in to a bear somewhere I'd certainly try to discourage it with loud sounds or the usual egress advice. Shooting a bear with a .22 will do just about nothing, in fact it is most likely only going to scare it with the sound, shooting it with a .22 though might just piss it off some more....

And I'll second Derek on another point. I bought my son the aforementioned Ruger SR-22 earlier this year, it's a hoot to shoot and my girlfriend loves to shoot it too, minimal recoil (not much more than a pellet gun) and the fun + cool factor are wicked. Ammunition for it is super cheap, approx $30 for 550 rounds.

[Guest Derek L]

Kimmy, I don't think Derek was firm enough with his answer to the Bear and .22LR comment. If I ran in to a bear somewhere I'd certainly try to discourage it with loud sounds or the usual egress advice. Shooting a bear with a .22 will do just about nothing, in fact it is most likely only going to scare it with the sound, shooting it with a .22 though might just piss it off some more....

And I'll second Derek on another point. I bought my son the aforementioned Ruger SR-22 earlier this year, it's a hoot to shoot and my girlfriend loves to shoot it too, minimal recoil (not much more than a pellet gun) and the fun + cool factor are wicked. Ammunition for it is super cheap, approx $30 for 550 rounds.

Ahh, but that's why I suggested a 12 gauge with slugs for bear defence

You know the difference between Black Bear poop and Grizzly Bear poop? Black Bear Poop is full of berries and Grizzly Bear poop full of bells, plastic bear bangers and smells like pepper

[kimmy]

Kimmy, I don't think Derek was firm enough with his answer to the Bear and .22LR comment. If I ran in to a bear somewhere I'd certainly try to discourage it with loud sounds or the usual egress advice. Shooting a bear with a .22 will do just about nothing, in fact it is most likely only going to scare it with the sound, shooting it with a .22 though might just piss it off some more....

Don't worry, Shakey! I was never under the impression that a wimpy .22 would be any use against a bear!

I was somewhat curious about whether my future Russian battle rifle would be a match for a grizzly... it's 7.62x54 cartriges are apparently very comparable to .30-06, especially coming out of that long barrel. I have read differing opinions on whether that's enough to deal with a grizzly, and I get the impression that the answer probably depends on how well you can shoot.

However, the gun itself is nearly as tall as I am, and as such probably wouldn't be very desirable for lugging around on a wilderness trip as a "just in case" weapon anyway.

And I'll second Derek on another point. I bought my son the aforementioned Ruger SR-22 earlier this year, it's a hoot to shoot and my girlfriend loves to shoot it too, minimal recoil (not much more than a pellet gun) and the fun + cool factor are wicked. Ammunition for it is super cheap, approx $30 for 550 rounds.

Derek has sold me on the merits of getting a .22 as my "learner's gun", and the Ruger sounds like an excellent choice. I'd mentioned the appeal of the AR7 portability, though Derek's doubts on the durability of it appear to be supported by the experience of many people.

I'd been leaning heavily towards the Ruger 10/22 in some form or another, but I just came across this Marlin 70PSS "Papoose" rifle and am undecided again. The Papoose is a takedown rifle, like the AR7, but appears to be more solidly built. This guy raves about it and feels that it's solid enough to be your every-day .22. To me there is a lot of appeal in having something that could easily stuff into a backpack or my kayak.

-k

Edited June 16, 2012 by kimmy

[Shakeyhands]

I'd been leaning heavily towards the Ruger 10/22 in some form or another, but I just came across this Marlin 70PSS "Papoose" rifle and am undecided again. The Papoose is a takedown rifle, like the AR7, but appears to be more solidly built. This guy raves about it and feels that it's solid enough to be your every-day .22. To me there is a lot of appeal in having something that could easily stuff into a backpack or my kayak.

-k

Looks like a neat little gun!

[Guest Derek L]

Don't worry, Shakey! I was never under the impression that a wimpy .22 would be any use against a bear!

I was somewhat curious about whether my future Russian battle rifle would be a match for a grizzly... it's 7.62x54 cartriges are apparently very comparable to .30-06, especially coming out of that long barrel. I have read differing opinions on whether that's enough to deal with a grizzly, and I get the impression that the answer probably depends on how well you can shoot.

However, the gun itself is nearly as tall as I am, and as such probably wouldn't be very desirable for lugging around on a wilderness trip as a "just in case" weapon anyway.

Derek has sold me on the merits of getting a .22 as my "learner's gun", and the Ruger sounds like an excellent choice. I'd mentioned the appeal of the AR7 portability, though Derek's doubts on the durability of it appear to be supported by the experience of many people.

I'd been leaning heavily towards the Ruger 10/22 in some form or another, but I just came across this Marlin 70PSS "Papoose" rifle and am undecided again. The Papoose is a takedown rifle, like the AR7, but appears to be more solidly built. This guy raves about it and feels that it's solid enough to be your every-day .22. To me there is a lot of appeal in having something that could easily stuff into a backpack or my kayak.

-k

If you’re worried about the actual length of the rifle, the Mosin came in several carbine versions which are about 10” shorter (But a lot harder to find)……..Or about the size of an SKS, which is itself a military grade carbine……..If you want to stick to a bolt action design I’d suggest looking into a Lee Enfield Jungle Carbine which is even shorter then the SKS and Mosin……..Plus many of parts are interchangeable with the regular Enfield No 4.

[kimmy]

If you’re worried about the actual length of the rifle, the Mosin came in several carbine versions which are about 10” shorter (But a lot harder to find)……..Or about the size of an SKS, which is itself a military grade carbine……..If you want to stick to a bolt action design I’d suggest looking into a Lee Enfield Jungle Carbine which is even shorter then the SKS and Mosin……..Plus many of parts are interchangeable with the regular Enfield No 4.

Not to worry, Derek. I'm not worried that the Mosin will be too big for me. I'm still intent on getting that as my first real piece of heavy artillery.

I think it's a great combination of the aspects I mentioned-- cheap to buy, cheap to operate, powerful, reliable, aesthetic, historic. Some of other guns might be as good or better in some of these respects, but probably few would compare in all of them.

I think it will be fine for the purposes I envision... learning to shoot a big gun with some kick, a traditional bolt-action gun, longer targets, and maybe even hunting some day.

But it's definitely too awkward and heavy for me to lug along on a backpack or kayak camping adventure, and those are the situations where I was worried about bear emergencies.

Speaking of which, you mentioned that the Mossberg 500 guns might be a reasonable alternative to the higher price Remington 870 you mentioned. Does that also apply to the pistol-grip models?

Things like this and especially this kit look like they would be easy enough to lug around and pack. They're short and very light for 12-gauge shotguns.

The idea of a pistol-grip shotgun sounds a little shady... you'd probably knock yourself unconscious if you brought it to your eye to sight... but maybe a folding stock, or a laser pointer would make it more useable.

-k

[Guest Derek L]

Not to worry, Derek. I'm not worried that the Mosin will be too big for me. I'm still intent on getting that as my first real piece of heavy artillery.

I think it's a great combination of the aspects I mentioned-- cheap to buy, cheap to operate, powerful, reliable, aesthetic, historic. Some of other guns might be as good or better in some of these respects, but probably few would compare in all of them.

I think it will be fine for the purposes I envision... learning to shoot a big gun with some kick, a traditional bolt-action gun, longer targets, and maybe even hunting some day.

Certainly…….If anything, you’d want of a larger calibre rifle with “kick” a long barrel…….shorter the barrel harder the recoil on a rifle (compared to a same calibre “long rifle”)

But it's definitely too awkward and heavy for me to lug along on a backpack or kayak camping adventure, and those are the situations where I was worried about bear emergencies.

Don’t underestimate yourself, from your stature and fitness level you’ve mentioned, you’re about the same size as many regulars of the North Korean, Chinese and Vietnamese armies……Now they certainly had no problem lugging that big rifle around………

With that said, (*FYI alert) one of the other longstanding “debates” is versus rifle cartridge size, with the primary sizes being 7.62x39 (Eastern Bloc) versus 5.56 (NATO)……….Basically, 100 rounds of the smaller 5.56 round weighs a lot less then 100 rounds of 7.62, translating into allowing one person to carry a lot more ammo on their back/chest………The counter argument is that 7.62 has a lot more stopping power then 5.56 and is less prone to being effected in flight by explosions (Blast pressure differences) and vegetation (Trees branches etc)………..You can research and judge who is “right”, but I will say this, the United States for the last few years has been developing the 6.8 Remington Cartridge as a possible replacement/complement to the 5.56.…….

What does this have to do with you? Nothing really, but if when the Zombies take over, you’ll want to pack as much ammo as possible I should think

Speaking of which, you mentioned that the Mossberg 500 guns might be a reasonable alternative to the higher price Remington 870 you mentioned. Does that also apply to the pistol-grip models?

Things like this and especially this kit look like they would be easy enough to lug around and pack. They're short and very light for 12-gauge shotguns.

I don’t have that exact model (I bought my son a 590 Blackwater for Xmas) and have no major beefs, but having a corrosion resistant shotgun, with a water proof case, certainly wouldn’t be a bad idea………Make sure you fork out the extra to get mariner version.

The idea of a pistol-grip shotgun sounds a little shady... you'd probably knock yourself unconscious if you brought it to your eye to sight... but maybe a folding stock, or a laser pointer would make it more useable.

A pistol grip with slugs you would most certainly feel……..I’ve a monster Browning Auto-5 and it hurts when I shoot more then a couple of slugs through it……..basically with shotguns, the lighter the load (Trap/Bird shot) has very little recoil, with slugs having the largest, and the various Buck Shots being in between……..Another factor, the heavier the gun, the less felt recoil………

Back to the pistol grip, I probably wouldn’t shoot slugs through it if you enjoy your teeth…..

As for the actual firing of a shotgun, most only have a small bead for a sight at the end of the barrel (Mall Ninjas can still get Ghost Ring, rifle like sights for their shotguns though) so unlike a rifle, there’s less of a need to put your face right in there like a rifle……….And if you want to earn your Kalamity Kimmy title, you’ll learn to shoot shotguns scatterguns from the hip

Best advice, when you get one, practice by starting out with the lighter loads (like bird shot) and work your way up to find your individual comfort zone.

[Guest Derek L]

Another thing to add, check out gun shows……..Lot’s of good deals to be had!!! I went to a local one this morning, and though I didn’t see any guns that tickled my fancy, I did manage to get 2000 rounds of 7.62x51 FMJ (.308 Win) for $700!!!!! Awesome deal and don‘t be afraid to haggle and monger!!

[kimmy]

Another thing to add, check out gun shows……..Lot’s of good deals to be had!!! I went to a local one this morning, and though I didn’t see any guns that tickled my fancy, I did manage to get 2000 rounds of 7.62x51 FMJ (.308 Win) for $700!!!!! Awesome deal and don‘t be afraid to haggle and monger!!

When you put it in those terms, it really makes it clear why a 22LR is the right gun to practice with.

So I completed my courses and I will have my license as soon as the bureaucrats process my application. So I'll probably have it by about this time next year...

The bear issue was discussed during class, as a lot of students were interested in it. It was mentioned that shotgun slugs actually have pretty poor penetrating power, as they're largely hollow. I got to handle one, and I was pretty disappointed-- it's surprisingly light. It's basically built like a little lead badminton birdie-- all the mass is at the front, and the wide tail is just there to keep it flying straight.

The most trusted round for dealing with great bears is, apparently, the .375 Holland & Holland Magnum. Unfortunately, guns that fire that cartridge cost megabucks and it costs you $4 each time you pull the trigger. A Ruger Hawkeye "Alaska" or "Africa" in 375 Ruger or 416 Ruger can be obtained for under $1000 and packs the same kind of wallop, but the cartridges still cost over $3 apiece.

This lovable old guy presents an alternative: the Marlin 1895 lever action, firing .45-70 rounds.

(geez, can he shoot!)

The gun itself can be had for a thrifty $600, and the cartridges look to cost somewhere around $2 apiece, which is still lots but slightly less insane at least. And there's just something cool about lever actions. As you've probably guessed by now I have a soft spot for the traditional looking stuff. I enjoyed the lever-action at my course, and I pretty much want one.

I did a little window shopping this weekend. Got to handle a few of the 22s I've been thinking about. I was disappointed with the Marlin 795... the synthetic stock just felt so slick and ... almost slimy. The Remington 597, on the other hand, has a great feel. Unfortunately I've read very mixed reviews of it. Found a place that had some Lee-Enfields, but they looked like they'd been through a wood-chipper.

On the subject of 22s and stuff that looks traditional, I like the looks of this pistol:the Ruger Single-Six. It comes with 2 cylinders, one for .22LR, and one for .22 magnum. 22LR would make it a cheap way to practice pistol shooting, and it would probably be suitable if I wanted to try the cowboy action shooting sports. And, having the 22 magnum cylinder could come in handy some day. I gather the 22 mag is about twice as powerful as 22LR, and it looks like there are some 22mag rounds on the market that are designed specifically for causing damage. So it might be handy in case of a zombie emergency. And it's so adorable!

And this is even more adorable! If I was going to have a bunch of 22 magnum rounds lying around anyway, I'd definitely want this.

Anyway, those mooks better hurry up and process my license.

-k

[Guest Derek L]

When you put it in those terms, it really makes it clear why a 22LR is the right gun to practice with.

I’ve been shooting since I was about 5 or 6 (With parents of course) and still to this day, anytime spent out at the range, .22lr is still fun and a great “filler” for a day of shooting.

So I completed my courses and I will have my license as soon as the bureaucrats process my application. So I'll probably have it by about this time next year...

I’ll give you some free advice to help speed up your time, which we did with my nephew last year and are in the process with my daughter when applying for the RPAL

1. Once you get your test results, your photo and all your paper work filled out (Not to sound condescending, but go over it several times) and have mailed it to the CFC, wait for about 1 ½ to 2 weeks then you phone them, politely to inquire that everything is in order and they received it……..This forces them to pull up your file from the “bottom of the pile”……Once they’ve done this, politely and innocently ask if you can do your phone interview well you’ve got them on the line…..50/50 they’ll do it right there.

2. If they don’t, phone back a couple of days later and politely ask again.

3. Once you’ve completed your interview, get your file number and have both your references phone in for their interviews (The CFC will do them when they phone)

4. Make sure, if paying by credit card for your fees, that you have enough of a balance to cover it.

5. Once the payment has been taken off your card or a few days have passed, phone back to inquire about your status…..At this point they’ll usually tell you everything is ok.

6. Start planning your first gun purchase, and call the BC CFO to get your licence number, join a club and apply for your ATT well you’re waiting.

As I’ve said, my nephew followed this approach, and from the day he mailed in his forms, to the day he received his licence (including the 28 day waiting period) was 46 days…….My Daughter was slightly delayed waiting for her 18th birthday, but has since been approved and is waiting for the mail and hoping to get it before the long weekend.

The bear issue was discussed during class, as a lot of students were interested in it. It was mentioned that shotgun slugs actually have pretty poor penetrating power, as they're largely hollow. I got to handle one, and I was pretty disappointed-- it's surprisingly light. It's basically built like a little lead badminton birdie-- all the mass is at the front, and the wide tail is just there to keep it flying straight.

The most trusted round for dealing with great bears is, apparently, the .375 Holland & Holland Magnum. Unfortunately, guns that fire that cartridge cost megabucks and it costs you $4 each time you pull the trigger. A Ruger Hawkeye "Alaska" or "Africa" in 375 Ruger or 416 Ruger can be obtained for under $1000 and packs the same kind of wallop, but the cartridges still cost over $3 apiece.

This lovable old guy presents an alternative: the Marlin 1895 lever action, firing .45-70 rounds.

The gun itself can be had for a thrifty $600, and the cartridges look to cost somewhere around $2 apiece, which is still lots but slightly less insane at least. And there's just something cool about lever actions. As you've probably guessed by now I have a soft spot for the traditional looking stuff. I enjoyed the lever-action at my course, and I pretty much want one.

I’ve got a .45 long colt, lever action, Winchester ‘94 (What all “Cowboy rifles are based off) and they are indeed expensive to shoot, but I’m still looking for a old Colt Peacemaker .45.…….The advantages of having both a rifle and handgun that use the same ammo I’m sure are quite obvious to you, but this leads me to my next point………..If you like the “feel” of the lever action, and want a rifle that has stopping power, they do make models based off the old cowboy rifles in modern calibers such as .44 Mag (Dirty Harry) and .357 magnum.

Now my advice of the two would be the one in .357.……….Has lots of power and only a moderate kick, and if you should decide to purchase a revolver in .357 (I’ve several and they’re among my favourites) you can also use the much cheaper .38 special cartridge in the .357 Magnum (Don’t worry, it was designed this way and is 100% legit)

Some food for thought:

Henry Big Boy

And

Ruger GP100 (I just got one)

I did a little window shopping this weekend. Got to handle a few of the 22s I've been thinking about. I was disappointed with the Marlin 795... the synthetic stock just felt so slick and ... almost slimy. The Remington 597, on the other hand, has a great feel. Unfortunately I've read very mixed reviews of it. Found a place that had some Lee-Enfields, but they looked like they'd been through a wood-chipper.

I agree, I tend to prefer a good quality wood stock myself too for looks and function……With that said, a “Tupperware stock” doesn’t mind getting wet and won’t warp and is lighter……..As for the look of the Lee Enfield’s, don’t let looks deceive you, you’ve got to remember they’ve likely been through a war 70 years ago….Defiantly check out the function and don’t be afraid to ask the folks at the store (remember, they’ll want your return business, so they’re mostly honest) some questions, but don’t let looks scare you away from a good gun/deal……….Remember, you can always have the gun re-blued and find a replacement stock for cheap(ish)

On the subject of 22s and stuff that looks traditional, I like the looks of this pistol:the Ruger Single-Six. It comes with 2 cylinders, one for .22LR, and one for .22 magnum. 22LR would make it a cheap way to practice pistol shooting, and it would probably be suitable if I wanted to try the cowboy action shooting sports. And, having the 22 magnum cylinder could come in handy some day. I gather the 22 mag is about twice as powerful as 22LR, and it looks like there are some 22mag rounds on the market that are designed specifically for causing damage. So it might be handy in case of a zombie emergency. And it's so adorable!

Like I’ve said, Ruger makes great guns…..Though I’ve never owned a single six, and I’m sure they’re fine, the one thing to be careful with wheel guns, and especially convertible ones, is after a couple of years (Or lots of use) it’s a good idea to bring it in to the local gunsmith and have him check the “timing” of the cylinder……..Don’t be scared off, revolvers are many magnitudes more safe and reliable then a pistol, but if you ever notice the cylinder “wobble” take it in to be checked out.

Another really good Ruger .22lr pistol that I’ve owned for a while is this:

Ruger mk III

Great quality, they're safe and user friendly.

And this is even more adorable! If I was going to have a bunch of 22 magnum rounds lying around anyway, I'd definitely want this.

If you like that, you'll love it's little brother:

Mare's Leg

They are loads of fun, and growing up a big fan of Steve McQueen, a must have....And wouldn't pose any problems fitting into your backpack

Anyway, those mooks better hurry up and process my license.

-k

Just remember, be polite, and when asked (And your references asked) by the CFC why you’re interested in a firearms, it’s for target shooting and possibly hunting down the road……..Don’t say self defence or zombies

[Shakeyhands]

So I completed my courses and I will have my license as soon as the bureaucrats process my application. So I'll probably have it by about this time next year...

-k

Nice work Kimmy! I'm willing to bet that you found the course to be a lot of fun! Sorry if I missed it, but did you do your RPAL too?

[kimmy]

Nice work Kimmy! I'm willing to bet that you found the course to be a lot of fun! Sorry if I missed it, but did you do your RPAL too?

Thanks Shakey

Yes, I did the RPAL at the same time. Just a couple of extra days and a little more money, so why not. I don't really picture myself being a pistol owner, but maybe when I try it out I'll discover I really love it.

The course was fun, although a few times I felt quite conscious of being the only girl there. Discussions about how to get your wife to let you buy that special gun, picking a gun that's right for your wife or girlfriend so that she'll have fun when you take her shooting, and so on, were a little awkward. Girls have small collarbones, so get your girl a nice small-caliber semi-automatic and take it to a gunsmith and get it ported and it won't hurt her collarbone. They make some nice leather recoil pads that have tassels and look really nice; she'll love that too. Get her one of these little pads that tucks under her bra strap. I dunno, maybe the .45-70 guide gun does kick too hard for my weak little collarbone, but I want to find that out for myself.

But yes, I really liked the course.

-k

[kimmy]

I’ve got a .45 long colt, lever action, Winchester ‘94 (What all “Cowboy rifles are based off) and they are indeed expensive to shoot, but I’m still looking for a old Colt Peacemaker .45.…….The advantages of having both a rifle and handgun that use the same ammo I’m sure are quite obvious to you, but this leads me to my next point………..If you like the “feel” of the lever action, and want a rifle that has stopping power, they do make models based off the old cowboy rifles in modern calibers such as .44 Mag (Dirty Harry) and .357 magnum.

Now my advice of the two would be the one in .357.……….Has lots of power and only a moderate kick, and if you should decide to purchase a revolver in .357 (I’ve several and they’re among my favourites) you can also use the much cheaper .38 special cartridge in the .357 Magnum (Don’t worry, it was designed this way and is 100% legit)

How much more power does a pistol cartridge have coming out of a 20" rifle barrel compared to a 5" pistol barrel?

I agree, I tend to prefer a good quality wood stock myself too for looks and function……With that said, a “Tupperware stock” doesn’t mind getting wet and won’t warp and is lighter……..

The Remington 597 stock I handled was synthetic, and it just felt terrific. Great texture, great shape, perfect size, shoulders nicely. I'm not sure how it would feel if it got wet from rain or sweat, but I think it would be less slippery than a wooden stock in those situations. It just feels more grippy.

At this point I think it would be my first choice, except I have been reading a lot of negative comments that the magazines are not very good.

If you like that, you'll love it's little brother:

Mare's Leg

They are loads of fun, and growing up a big fan of Steve McQueen, a must have....And wouldn't pose any problems fitting into your backpack

I dunno... that looks really awkward. Too long to shoot like a pistol, too short to shoot like a rifle. What's the classification of this? Barrel is under 457mm and overall length is under 660mm, so to me it looks like it should be classified as a restricted firearm, in which case how well it fits into a backpack would be a moot point.

-k

[Guest Derek L]

How much more power does a pistol cartridge have coming out of a 20" rifle barrel compared to a 5" pistol barrel?

The same “power”, but less noticeable recoil for the shooter, plus greater accuracy then a pistol…….Like I’ve said, there are advantages to a pistol/rifle sharing the same ammo, but for a truly accurate rifle, you’ll need one with a “proper” rifle cartridge……….Lever Actions do have their benefits, but in large part, due to their inherent tubular magazine, are restricted to pistol type ammo for safety reasons (A rifle cartridge, with it’s “pointy” front end being loaded into a tubular magazine behind another cartridge, could potentially act as a “firing pin” to the cartridge in front of it)

The Remington 597 stock I handled was synthetic, and it just felt terrific. Great texture, great shape, perfect size, shoulders nicely. I'm not sure how it would feel if it got wet from rain or sweat, but I think it would be less slippery than a wooden stock in those situations. It just feels more grippy.

At this point I think it would be my first choice, except I have been reading a lot of negative comments that the magazines are not very good.

It truly depends on the synthetic stock and level of quality in it’s design, but most will have cross hatching incorporated “where your hands go”…….If you want a synthetic stock/grips check out Hogue......Great place for after market solutions and many gun makers include their products into their firearms……..As to grip in general, just remember, guns have been made for hundreds of years with wood stocks…….

I dunno... that looks really awkward. Too long to shoot like a pistol, too short to shoot like a rifle. What's the classification of this? Barrel is under 457mm and overall length is under 660mm, so to me it looks like it should be classified as a restricted firearm, in which case how well it fits into a backpack would be a moot point.

They're non-restricted......They are defiantly not a “sniper rifle”, but fun none the less.

[kimmy]

They're non-restricted......They are defiantly not a “sniper rifle”, but fun none the less.

I have to admit, the chance to have a non-restricted gun that is so portable has a lot of appeal.

I've been looking at these classic revolvers that have that beautiful opalescent look. I had assumed that it was just some sort of tarnish that came from age. But then I discovered that it's actually a result of a process called "case hardening". In the good old days, gunmakers had difficulty working with hard steel, so they would use a softer steel that they could machine more easily, and then throw the parts into an oven with high-carbon materials (typically bones) and the steel would get carbonized to become harder. And the results had this gorgeous iridescent sheen.

A company called Uberti makes these beautiful replicas of antique Colt revolvers, as well as various "Old West" rifles like the Winchester lever-action guns and the Colt Lightning.

Needless to say, these are going on my wish-list.

-k

[Guest Derek L]

I have to admit, the chance to have a non-restricted gun that is so portable has a lot of appeal.

I've been looking at these classic revolvers that have that beautiful opalescent look. I had assumed that it was just some sort of tarnish that came from age. But then I discovered that it's actually a result of a process called "case hardening". In the good old days, gunmakers had difficulty working with hard steel, so they would use a softer steel that they could machine more easily, and then throw the parts into an oven with high-carbon materials (typically bones) and the steel would get carbonized to become harder. And the results had this gorgeous iridescent sheen.

A company called Uberti makes these beautiful replicas of antique Colt revolvers, as well as various "Old West" rifles like the Winchester lever-action guns and the Colt Lightning.

Needless to say, these are going on my wish-list.

-k

You bet, case hardening defiantly has an appeal………Today, the nice (and functional) finish on higher end (sans stainless steel) firearms is from a process called “Parkerizing”. Protects the gun from rusting, well giving it a nice finish…….Bluing is another cheaper method, but wears with time……..I’ll tend to keep my older rifles in a original condition (with bluing touch-ups now and again) but I have had several guns (Ruger Mini-14 and an older Colt 1911) parkerized.……Really adds something to an older gun.

As to Uberti, many of their replica guns were used in Westerns from the 60s on……..As to their quality, well, Uberti’s parent company is Beretta……That‘s all that needs to be said…..And you certainly can’t go wrong with a company that’s been around for almost 500 years………My wife and I both shoot Beretta 92s and I bought a couple months back their Cx4 Storm carbine. The 92 and Cx4 are the same calibre and can share magazines, along the same linage as the old cowboy level actions and Peacemakers.

92FS

Cx4 Storm

This guy has a real decent Youtube channel, is a great shot, and a good teacher:

Edited July 17, 2012 by Derek L

[Guest Derek L]

Thought I'd add these couple of videos from hickok45:

The gun that puts fear in the hearts of the anti-gun folks:

And the Mosin Nagant Kimmy:

[kimmy]

As to Uberti, many of their replica guns were used in Westerns from the 60s on……..As to their quality, well, Uberti’s parent company is Beretta……That‘s all that needs to be said…..And you certainly can’t go wrong with a company that’s been around for almost 500 years………My wife and I both shoot Beretta 92s and I bought a couple months back their Cx4 Storm carbine. The 92 and Cx4 are the same calibre and can share magazines, along the same linage as the old cowboy level actions and Peacemakers.

I just love the look of the case-hardened Uberti guns. If I buy a gun, it's going to have to be pretty, and these are about the prettiest I've seen.

I was noticing that Ruger makes a convertible revolver that comes with a cylinder for .357mag and one for 9mm Luger. Sounds like a handy thing to have when the zombies come. It's interesting that so many of these bullets are so similar that they can come out of the same barrel, or fit into the same chamber, or sometimes even both.

This guy has a real decent Youtube channel, is a great shot, and a good teacher:

I like his videos. I have seen several of them. I posted his video of the Marlin 1895 .45-70 lever-gun earlier in the thread. He's fun. I have also watched some of the Nutnfancy videos. He seems like kind of a dork, but I think he does have some good information about the guns and what sort of use they're suited to.

And the Mosin Nagant Kimmy:

(EXCITED SQUEAL!) I can hardly wait until my license gets here.

-k

[Guest Derek L]

I just love the look of the case-hardened Uberti guns. If I buy a gun, it's going to have to be pretty, and these are about the prettiest I've seen.

I was noticing that Ruger makes a convertible revolver that comes with a cylinder for .357mag and one for 9mm Luger. Sounds like a handy thing to have when the zombies come. It's interesting that so many of these bullets are so similar that they can come out of the same barrel, or fit into the same chamber, or sometimes even both.

Well it’s not actually the cylinder that’s changed, what you need are Moon Clips, which will hold a rimless cartridge in place........They were very popular with police departments during the 70s & 80s as they were converting from wheel guns to 9mm semi autos…………….But the most famous user of Moon Clips (.45 ACP) was Indiana Jones with his Smith & Wesson M1917

I like his videos. I have seen several of them. I posted his video of the Marlin 1895 .45-70 lever-gun earlier in the thread. He's fun. I have also watched some of the Nutnfancy videos. He seems like kind of a dork, but I think he does have some good information about the guns and what sort of use they're suited to.

I must of missed it, gotta check it out.....Yeah, I like the guy (reminds me of a late uncle) and he's a damn good shot for an old fart.....I like that he doesn't edit out when he misses......

(EXCITED SQUEAL!) I can hardly wait until my license gets here.

-k

Good stuff!!! I may have posted a link to them before, but if not, here's a real good local BC gun store:

http://www.wanstallsonline.com/mosin-nagant-model-1891-7.62x54mm-sku423.html

Here's one that I've always wanted (long before The Walking Dead) they're really hard to find with a restricted barrel:

Don't get me wrong, I love my Ruger and Smith & Wesson wheel guns, but the Colt is the Cadillac

Edited July 17, 2012 by Derek L

[Guest Derek L]

To add, I just checked Ruger, and to correct myself, they do make one with a convertible cylinder......Yeah learn something everyday

[Shakeyhands]

although a few times I felt quite conscious of being the only girl there. They make some nice leather recoil pads that have tassels and look really nice; she'll love that too. Get her one of these little pads that tucks under her bra strap.

-k

If I buy a gun, it's going to have to be pretty, and these are about the prettiest I've seen.

-k

Hahaha. Thx Kimmy.

[Shakeyhands]

By the way kimmy... I understand that real women don't wear bras while they're shooting... or so says our resident perv at the hunt camp...

something to do with the dampening effect on recoil??

Edited July 17, 2012 by Shakeyhands

[kimmy]

Hahaha. Thx Kimmy.

Boo! Boo!

So the mall commando guys like guns that look like they're from Call of Duty, and I like guns that have some classy beauty.

Well ok, maybe I'm helping confirm the stereotype after all... but I promise that at least I will never buy the Pink Ruger!

By the way kimmy... I understand that real women don't wear bras while they're shooting... or so says our resident perv at the hunt camp...

something to do with the dampening effect on recoil??

I think he is mistaken.

However, I don't think I will wear a scoop-neck top while firing a semi-automatic!

-k