.

[Newfoundlander]

The Consrvative staffer resigning never got that much news.

[capricorn]

When hes told to go to the wrong place he wont get help, and might just get frustrated or give up. But the whole point is this isnt supposed to happen in free and fair elections... and we go all over the world preaching about democracy, and the importance of getting the result right. When theres shenanigans it damages the integrity of the process.

I couldn't agree more dre.

We wont know what would have happened in some of those close ridings until we have a free and fair election and we count the votes. Once we do that that result will be respected, and nobody will be able to question the legitimacy of the results. Right now the integrity of the result in some ridings appears to be questionable and that most definately cant stand.

This is what the former Elections Canada chief said about the rules for calling by-elections.

In order for a by-election to be called, an elector in a specific riding would have to prove to a federal judge that the number of electors affected by the robocalls was greater than the number of votes that separated the winner and the second-place candidate.

"If you're able to demonstrate that, the judge will say a by-election must be called," Kingsley said.

"This is so serious that when the judgement is made, if you want to appeal that, you have eight days, that's all. And then it goes to the Supreme Court of Canada directly, and they must deal with it expeditiously."

http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120227/robocalls-battle-house-of-commnos-120227/20120227/?hub=MontrealHome

That means, of those ridings under investigation if it is found that the number of misleading phone calls is greater than the margin of votes between the two top ranking candidates, a by-election would be called. For example, if 100 misleading calls are proven and the difference in the result is 100 or less, a by-election would be held.

Regardless of the number of ridings ordered to hold by-elections under that process, that will not satisfy opposition parties or their supporters. They will continue to brand the Conservative government as illegitimate. The only outcome that could put a lid on this is if the investigation concluded that none of the political parties were involved but that it was orchestrated by an organization outside the political parties, bent on influencing or disrupting or discrediting our electoral process.

[capricorn]

Nothing in the big news sites as of yet, but I'm hearing that the RCMP may have recently executed a search warrant on Racknine.

The RCMP search warrant was made public and it specified clearly that Racknine is not under investigation.

[madmax]

I think the Conservatives are knee deep in trouble.

[Newfoundlander]

Etobicoke Centre and Nipissing—Timiskaming might be the only by-elections we see if the number of those affected is greater then the difference between first and second place.

[madmax]

Etobicoke Centre and Nipissing—Timiskaming might be the only by-elections we see if the number of those affected is greater then the difference between first and second place.

We won't see any by elections..

We may see some jail time..

[capricorn]

We won't see any by elections..

Hi madmax.

If no by-elections are called, there will be howls that Elections Canada and the RCMP are in the pocket of the Conservatives.

We may see some jail time..

Most likely.

[waldo]

We won't see any by elections..

We may see some jail time..

of course there won't be any by-elections called; in any case, the Harper Conservative Banana Republic carries a fine ring!

[PIK]

It is time for the lib and NDP to come forward with all this evidence that they keep saying they have. Go straight to election canada and lets get to the bottom of it. And I think turmel might have crossed the line and I hope she is charged. But this will be nothing compared to the storm brewing out west with mc guinty's comments. The right needs to grow up and the left needs to shut up and lets get this country on track again.

[mentalfloss]

It is time for the lib and NDP to come forward with all this evidence that they keep saying they have. Go straight to election canada and lets get to the bottom of it. And I think turmel might have crossed the line and I hope she is charged. But this will be nothing compared to the storm brewing out west with mc guinty's comments. The right needs to grow up and the left needs to shut up and lets get this country on track again.

You're all over the place, but the facts are that the only evidence that could clear up this situation would come from Conservatives as they have the scripts.

Edited February 28, 2012 by mentalfloss

[capricorn]

the only evidence that could clear up this situation would come from Conservatives as they have the scripts.

The Thunder Bay call centre or their operators might have kept a copy.

[Newfoundlander]

It is time for the lib and NDP to come forward with all this evidence that they keep saying they have. Go straight to election canada and lets get to the bottom of it. And I think turmel might have crossed the line and I hope she is charged. But this will be nothing compared to the storm brewing out west with mc guinty's comments. The right needs to grow up and the left needs to shut up and lets get this country on track again.

What did Turmel say?

[PIK]

You're all over the place, but the facts are that the only evidence that could clear up this situation would come from Conservatives as they have the scripts.

The opp keeps saying they have the evidence, well as harper said give it to elections canada and lets find out, if the cons had somethung to do with it ,then they will pay the price, but if there is no evidence right now,then lets wait untill it comes out. But having turmel say it is conservatives ,that did it and paid for it, well shows us the dirt or STFU and for the libs to imply that it cost them the election,how stupid do they think people are. POlls have beeN dead on for some time and the election played out as it should have , so IMO right now I can't see how this changes it that much.

[Shakeyhands]

But this will be nothing compared to the storm brewing out west with mc guinty's comments.

I must have missed this, what was said?

[olpfan1]

Stop lying please.

If I'm lying then so is every media report cause thats what it said

[capricorn]

I must have missed this, what was said?

McGuinty blamed Alberta for Ontario's job losses over the last 8 years he's been premier. He's pitting province against province. What an ass!

edit to add link. http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/02/28/dalton-mcguinty-blames-the-dog-for-eating-his-province/

Edited February 28, 2012 by capricorn

[olpfan1]

Harper keeps saying prove we were behind this... thats an admission of guilt

a not guilty man would say you couldnt have proof because we didnt do it

[cybercoma]

It's time for the Conservatives to come clean and reveal the evidence.

Mainly, the scripts that were sent during election.

Right now, all we have is some massive coincidence of all these people, whether in Kitchener, Guelph, or as many as 30 other ridings, getting calls to say their voting location had changed. The Conservatives are saying that they provided only true, helpful, factual information to voters, though some mistakes might have been made.

Let's go back to the December controversy over the calls made to Irwin Cotler's riding, in which constituents reported they were told that Mr. Cotler was resigning. The Conservative Party admitted that it paid the firm to do these calls and that it tightly managed what callers were supposed to say. In the process, we also learned a bit more about how these call centres work. In fact, numerous Conservative spokespersons, media outlets and the Marketing Research Intelligence Association were given copies of the script in question.

Note: The whole defence in the Cotler-call controversy was that these robocall firms were just calling people with the words the Conservative party supplied to them. If someone went off script, well, that wasn't the fault of Campaign Research or the party.

So. What we need to see now is the script that the Conservative Party supplied to Responsive Marketing Group. The party was able to produce one for the Cotler calls controversy; I'm assuming it has the one supplied to this firm too. In fact, let's see the scripts the Conservatives wrote for all the call centres. If it's all true information, it shouldn't be a problem, right?

Let's see the scripts

Here's the problem.

The Conservatives could have taken the steam out of this story by saying, "we provided scripts to call centres to help 'get out the vote'" and by providing the scripts immediately. They could then say, as they did in the Cotler case, that any deviation from the script was no fault of the CPC. This could have all been accomplished within 24 hours of the story breaking and it would have taken the wind out of the sails on this scandal.

Unfortunately, they haven't provided the scripts at all yet. Why not? Some have alluded to the idea that the scripts were shredded, but there is absolutely no way these weren't made in some word processor, filed away on a computer somewhere. It's possible they deleted, but I find that highly unlikely, given how strictly the CPC controls its message. I don't know what the rest of you do for a living, but I still have files on my computer at work from project that I haven't worked on in over a year. You never know when you'll need them again.

The flipside to this is why haven't any of the phone operators likewise produced the script, if it indeed contained all of this damning evidence. So far one operator has told the media that she went to her superior and the RCMP when she believed what she was doing was illegal. However, she did not retain a copy of ths script. That seems strange.

Potentially, the scripts have been taken by the RCMP or Elections Canada as evidence in their case and these parties (the CPC and operators that is) cannot release them to the media because they are part of an ongoing investigation.

The CPC now, however, is screwed. If they do produce a script and the investigation is still going on, it becomes very conspicuous that they dragged their feet on this and it should make you question the veracity of the produced document. If they produced the script immediately, this wouldn't even be a question and the CPC could claim it was all a big misunderstanding... again. They've dropped the ball on this one and went with the bafflng tactic of claimin their supporters got the same sorts of calls, although back in May there was little coverage of CPC supporters being misdirected.

Where's the scripts, indeed. Unfortunately, it's too late.

[olpfan1]

McGuinty blamed Alberta for Ontario's job losses over the last 8 years he's been premier. He's pitting province against province. What an ass!

I believe alberta urged mcguinty to support the tar sands more vocally

ergo they started it

[g_bambino]

I believe alberta urged mcguinty to support the tar sands more vocally

ergo they started it

There you go again blaming a person for someone else's actions.

[cybercoma]

I view both these episodes as being very similar

Of course you do because you're a partisan hack. Stealing a ballot box and interfering with the election is not at all the same thing or even similar to publishing things from the public record. At best you could call Vikileaks harassment. Interfering with an election by trying to steal a ballot box, on the other hand, is a far more serious matter.

[olpfan1]

Of course you do because you're a partisan hack. Stealing a ballot box and interfering with the election is not at all

the same thing or even similar to publishing things from the public record. At best you could call Vikileaks harassment. Interfering with an election by trying to steal a ballot box, on the other hand, is a far more serious matter.

whats more serious is why wasnt michael sona fired the first time when he got caught trying to steal a ballot box?

[capricorn]

Harper keeps saying prove we were behind this... thats an admission of guilt

a not guilty man would say you couldnt have proof because we didnt do it

[cybercoma]

Most likely.

What's a little jail time when it delivers your party a majority government? It's like a CEO taking the risk of white collar crime. They might get slapped on the wrist with some sort of restitution payments that won't amount to anywhere near the amount lost, stolen or misdirected. It only makes economic sense to engage in this behaviour if the punishment does not undo the profits or results of these crimes.

[g_bambino]

The opp keeps saying they have the evidence, well as harper said give it to elections canada and lets find out, if the cons had somethung to do with it ,then they will pay the price, but if there is no evidence right now,then lets wait untill it comes out.

That does seem like the prudent course of action; though, who's ever prudent in affairs like this? Even if the Conservative Party released scripts used for pre-vote calls to constituents, none of the opposition would believe they were truly what was used or only what was used, meaning suspicions of Conservative guilt would contine and the Conservatives might appear too desperate to look innocent. That's why it's better for the Conservatives to demand the opposition substantiate their accusations with proof, rather than the Conservatives making a fairly pointless effort to prove their innocence while the opposition sits back and watches; it is innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.