fellowtraveller Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 We will forget all the money going back Alberta owes the people of the East building the railroad so they could be connected to this land, the money they invested in Albertan info-structure and the Aid provided to the Albertan Farmers over the years. Alberta needs to look at this an investment, their greatest challenge over the next decade will be its need for a growing workforce in a shrinking country. So they can either have educated workers who will grow their economy (and pay for them) or watch their economy fail because they are to selfish to understand how a Federation works. Utter drivel. Both railroads were built specifically to exploit the resources of the West, not as some fantasy charity act to benefit the West. 'Connected to this land', what sort of fairy tale world do you inhabit? The Aid to Alberta farmers consisted of them being forced to buy inferior, expensive Ontario built farm equipment with no option. Then they got to ship their grain east to a single customer. Other 'Aid' consisted of Eastern banks foreclosing on Western farms during the Depression. That worked out kind of OK, both Social Credit and CCF were born of that and became transformative links to a stronger, less dependent West. Quote The government should do something.
fellowtraveller Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 Those redneck Wild Rose types, they're the people who want to, like, balance the budget, right? Do you mean balance like the PCs did for many years and will again soon? While the rest of Canada whined about getting their share of Action Plan money, Alberta just correectly assumed they'd get less than their share and financed their own Action Plan to the tune of about $20 billion in infrastructure building. They'll cut back on that over the next few years and let the private sector fund growth. Wildrose are the fringe dwellers who got badly outmanouevered in the past year. You've been reading the Grope and Flail too much. Quote The government should do something.
Smallc Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 Alberta assumed they'd get less than they were due? What a funny thing to assume. They got exactly what they were due, by virtue of their population, in this case. Quote
Jerry J. Fortin Posted February 22, 2012 Report Posted February 22, 2012 Utter drivel. Both railroads were built specifically to exploit the resources of the West, not as some fantasy charity act to benefit the West. 'Connected to this land', what sort of fairy tale world do you inhabit? The Aid to Alberta farmers consisted of them being forced to buy inferior, expensive Ontario built farm equipment with no option. Then they got to ship their grain east to a single customer. Other 'Aid' consisted of Eastern banks foreclosing on Western farms during the Depression. That worked out kind of OK, both Social Credit and CCF were born of that and became transformative links to a stronger, less dependent West. Ahhh..... the oh so sweet words of reality cut a tough course for the un-Albertan! Well said, and so very well done, nice post. Quote
Smallc Posted February 22, 2012 Report Posted February 22, 2012 Sure...if you ignore that the entire reason for the success in the west over the east at the current time rests completely on the multitude of wealth generating resources in the ground. Quote
Jerry J. Fortin Posted February 22, 2012 Report Posted February 22, 2012 Alberta assumed they'd get less than they were due? What a funny thing to assume. They got exactly what they were due, by virtue of their population, in this case. Alberta this or Alberta that, but no mention of the centre of your universe. No Manitoba this and Manitoba that??? That's right just beat-up the bad bad bad Albertan. Guess what Smallc? Alberta acts different just because we think we are different. Say what you want. Alberta was to start with, has been since, and will always be that way. Just a little different, neither better nor worse you understand, just different. How is it that folks from other provinces seem to leave us dumb Albertans feeling just that...dumb. We can't seem to figure out why the folks looking down their noses at us are calling us arrogant. I suppose you have no idea how much that kinda stuff tends to weigh upon us. How about for a change you look at ways to find commonality instead of division between yourself and Albertans. I have no idea why you don't think very highly of us, and I am okay with that. Perhaps what many folks, yourself included, don't seem to realize is that Alberta is the name of the province, not us. We are citizens of an entire nation, just as you are. Playing province against province may well be your cup of tea, and I am willing to bet that most other folks in this country would say that it isn't their. Maybe what you don't understand about Alberta citizens is that they are pretty much independent thinkers. Like manner others we don't like to be told what we can and should do by anybody else. Is that one of the things that make us different? Perhaps, or maybe not.....that is a perception call in my view. Quote
Jerry J. Fortin Posted February 22, 2012 Report Posted February 22, 2012 Sure...if you ignore that the entire reason for the success in the west over the east at the current time rests completely on the multitude of wealth generating resources in the ground. Is that right? You sure those resources weren't there before maybe the damned country even got its current name. You mean since the natural resources were deemed to be of more value than the overinflated egomaniac bureaucrats passing judgment over the geographic location of said resources? Get a grip. Ontario/Quebec manufacturing sectors have successfully priced themselves out of business. Oh well, rough break for those folks I guess. Maybe they should move to somewhere that they can find work or start a business. They can stay where they want for all I care. They should be free to do as they please in my view. Just stop fretting about the success of others, either join the fun and work for something you want or please stop complaining about the folks that want to work. We work, we pay taxes just like everyone else. We are in fact more alike than you might think. Success is built by individual effort, applaud it or not. We have made efforts, we have been successful. Get over it. Quote
Smallc Posted February 22, 2012 Report Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) We work, we pay taxes just like everyone else. We are in fact more alike than you might think. That's my entire point - a point that a few of you in Alberta seem to miss. Success is built by individual effort, applaud it or not. We have made efforts, we have been successful. Get over it. Effort has nothing to do with success in this case That's the entire point. You know, China has also priced themselves out of being competitive in manufacturing. unless you expect people in Ontario to live on a few dollars a day, you don't really have any kind of a solution to offer them. It is in fact the high dollar and the struggling US economy that has caused to current decline, even more than the price of labour though, and again, that isn't their fault. That said, Ontario and Quebec are far more than manufacturing plants. Perhaps you should take the time to learn something about their diverse economies. Edited February 22, 2012 by Smallc Quote
Smallc Posted February 22, 2012 Report Posted February 22, 2012 Above all that, my real point is that this irrational hatred of everything east of the Manitoba border (which is quickly slipping to the Saskatchewan border) has to end. Quote
fellowtraveller Posted February 22, 2012 Report Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Sure...if you ignore that the entire reason for the success in the west over the east at the current time rests completely on the multitude of wealth generating resources in the ground. Of course, you ignore the reality that Alberta was a contributor to equalization for decades when oil was priced at $10 to $15/barrel. Now how do you think they managed that? Note also that it has only been the last couple of years that oilsands revenue has make any kind of net contribution to Alberta or Canadian revenue. Above all that, my real point is that this irrational hatred of everything east of the Manitoba border (which is quickly slipping to the Saskatchewan border) has to end. I don't have any hatred for the rest of Canada, but I do not like the kind of witless posts that spurred my factual response to go unchallenged. Note also that the poster punked, who obsessively plays the fool, lives in Alberta. Edited February 22, 2012 by fellowtraveller Quote The government should do something.
Smallc Posted February 22, 2012 Report Posted February 22, 2012 Of course, you ignore the reality that Alberta was a contributor to equalization for decades when oil was priced at $10 to $15/barrel. Now how do you think they managed that? So was Ontario. Right now, you only need an economy at about the $43000 GDP per capita level to contribute (although strangely, BC is less than that, but I suppose their revenue potential is better because of where their economy is structured. BC, Ontario, and Manitoba have approximately equivalent GDP per capita.) You know just as well as I do though, Alberta makes real money in natural gas, too. Alberta's economy was, pre recession, running almost double the GDP per capita of the average province. Right now, it's on its way back there. Albertans work hard, as do many other Canadians, but you have to admit, it isn't elbow grease that gets Alberta to that level. Note also that it has only been the last couple of years that oilsands revenue has make any kind of net contribution to Alberta or Canadian revenue.I don't have any hatred for the rest of Canada, but I do not like the kind of witless posts that spurred my factual response to go unchallenged. Note also that the poster punked, who obsessively plays the fool, lives in Alberta. I can understand that. What I don't understand is why you so often make posts that are the equivalent insult in the direction of other provinces. Quote
Argus Posted February 22, 2012 Report Posted February 22, 2012 You seem to be showing derision for the amount of money she gets for her kids. I wasn't. I was pointing out how much money came from the federal government, or at least, just from my department, to that individual in Quebec. It's not counted as equalization payments or anything, but it's part of the tens of billions spent on Quebec every year. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 22, 2012 Report Posted February 22, 2012 Do you mean balance like the PCs did for many years and will again soon? By using every penny of resource royalties and also emptying the heritage fund? No, that's not what I mean. I mean by balancing the budget while also investing in the future. I mean balancing the budget while diversifying industry and also by putting money away for the future, when commodities sag as they did before. But the PC party in Alberta has been about as conservative as Joe Clark's PC party was federally since Lougheed quit. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
cybercoma Posted February 22, 2012 Report Posted February 22, 2012 I wasn't. I was pointing out how much money came from the federal government, or at least, just from my department, to that individual in Quebec. It's not counted as equalization payments or anything, but it's part of the tens of billions spent on Quebec every year. Seems to be money spent on a Canadian citizen. I'm not sure how her location really makes a difference here. Quote
Argus Posted February 23, 2012 Report Posted February 23, 2012 Seems to be money spent on a Canadian citizen. I'm not sure how her location really makes a difference here. Well let's see. The topic is how much federal money goes to Quebec, as compared to how much money Quebecers pay to the federal treasury. It would seem to me that how much money is being given to individual Quebecers is a solid part of that equation. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Newfoundlander Posted February 23, 2012 Report Posted February 23, 2012 By using every penny of resource royalties and also emptying the heritage fund? No, that's not what I mean. I mean by balancing the budget while also investing in the future. I mean balancing the budget while diversifying industry and also by putting money away for the future, when commodities sag as they did before. But the PC party in Alberta has been about as conservative as Joe Clark's PC party was federally since Lougheed quit. These are not Peter Lougheed PCs anymore. Quote
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