eyeball Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Let's keep in mind the criminal's rights to a native circle and burning of sweet grass etc. whilst the victims get to suffer again at his 'accommodation.' Surely somewhere common decency will prevail and a criminal will be due the punishment and sentence for the crime, not an avenue to stick it to the families. I doubt sincerely his option to the native circle was for any need but publicity. Christ on a stick, if there's anyone who keeps dragging victims out, putting their suffering on public display and exploiting this for their own ends it's moral entrepreneurs and engineers from the hang em' high wing-nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 I guess I'm just not as squeamish... How 'bout having Bernardo sodomized daily by a lifer...For the rest of his natural life??? I'd sleep easier knowing "rough justice" was being served daily rather than giving that scumbag the easy way out of a quick death... So how would you feel about putting Vince Weiguang Li in with rapists? I'd sleep a lot better knowing experts are in charge of deciding what's best in cases that seem to get otherwise normal people hopping up and down like a troop of shit flinging baboons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) So how would you feel about putting Vince Weiguang Li in with rapists? I'd sleep a lot better knowing experts are in charge of deciding what's best in cases that seem to get otherwise normal people hopping up and down like a troop of shit flinging baboons. Thanks for your stellar contribution... Don't you have to go to a NORML meeting,or something??? Edited January 22, 2012 by Jack Weber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Thanks for your stellar contribution... Don't you have to go to a NORML meeting,or something??? Why don't you do us all a favour and get the fuck over yourself Jack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Why don't you do us all a favour and get the fuck over yourself Jack? Testy... Might I suggest a fatty??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Who's purpose would it serve if we allowed the sort of vindictive cruelty some people are suggesting be applied in our justice system? What reason would there be to expect this attitude wouldn't degenerate further until it became the standard by which all convicts are treated? People drop names like Olsen and Bernardo into debates about crime and punishment for the same reason they invoke the ghosts of Hitler and Stalin in debates about national security and defence. The reason why is pretty transparent. Edited January 22, 2012 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 It's funny how we put people in jail for murdering and torturing people, then we revel in the idea of murdering and torturing the people we put in jail. That's hyperbole, an extreme exaggeration. Where is the torture in jail. Certainly there are those that vicariously suggest that in some cases it might be apropos to the criminal given their crime. However executing a criminal is in no way murder. the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought. We put down a rabid beast or an animal that has killed. We may chose not to execute, but if we do calling it murder is a misnomer, it's an execution and has been such for millennium. I suggest there are times when an execution is warranted. Do you stand on a position that there is never a justification for an execution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Who's purpose would it serve if we allowed the sort of vindictive cruelty some people are suggesting be applied in our justice system? What reason would there be to expect this attitude wouldn't degenerate further until it became the standard by which all convicts are treated? People drop names like Olsen and Bernardo into debates about crime and punishment for the same reason they invoke the ghosts of Hitler and Stalin in debates about national security and defence. The reason why is pretty transparent. The reason is quite evident,the Bernardos', and Olsens' and Maos and Hitlers of our civilized world are repugnant and stand as examples of the cruelties that our fellow humans are capable of. As such, as extremes, as criminals with no redeeming qualities it would be quite unnatural not to feel disgust or even a need for extraordinary and unusual punishment. There are of course controls on our crime and punishment in democracies, in the West under our courts. I have no concern that OUR justice system might be perverted as you suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 The reason is quite evident,the Bernardos', and Olsens' and Maos and Hitlers of our civilized world are repugnant and stand as examples of the cruelties that our fellow humans are capable of. As such, as extremes, as criminals with no redeeming qualities it would be quite unnatural not to feel disgust or even a need for extraordinary and unusual punishment. The extremes are deliberately dropped alongside the mundane to stoke the hope that the disgust will be applied equally. There are of course controls on our crime and punishment in democracies, in the West under our courts. There's no controlling the emotions of a mob but there are ways of tapping into it. I have no concern that OUR justice system might be perverted as you suggest. I know you're not concerned and that's why I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 That's hyperbole, an extreme exaggeration. Where is the torture in jail. People in this thread were talking about how particular killers and rapists should either be killed for their crimes or suffer torturous prison sentences for the rest of their lives. This isn't the system we have and I never suggested it was. My statement that you're replying to is very clear on what I'm talking about. I suggest there are times when an execution is warranted. Do you stand on a position that there is never a justification for an execution? Execution is murder. You're intentionally putting an end to another human being's life against their will. Call it what you want. It's killing. And yes. I stand on a position that there is never a justification for state-sanctioned executions. No state should have the right to put its own citizens to death for numerous reasons that I'm not even going to bother getting into here because it's pointless. Ideologues that want the death penalty aren't going to listen anyway and there is no public debate about this. We don't have the death penalty and the Charter will not allow the government to pass legislationi re-instating it. It's a complete non-issue, which isn't even worth debating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 People in this thread were talking about how particular killers and rapists should either be killed for their crimes or suffer torturous prison sentences for the rest of their lives. This isn't the system we have and I never suggested it was. My statement that you're replying to is very clear on what I'm talking about. Execution is murder. You're intentionally putting an end to another human being's life against their will. Call it what you want. It's killing. If you want to pay for life incarceration for a Paul Bernardo that's your slavery, not mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 If you want to pay for life incarceration for a Paul Bernardo that's your slavery, not mine. You don't have a pony in this show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 You don't have a pony in this show. I don't want to pay for similar creeps in my country either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 We need to reform a system that has been highly successful at reducing the crime rate for over 40 years? I don't get it. There's no evidence it has done any such thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 People in this thread were talking about how particular killers and rapists should either be killed for their crimes or suffer torturous prison sentences for the rest of their lives. What's a 'torturous prison sentence'? I think people who rape and murder 15 year old girls should never be released from prison. Sue me for being strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 We need to reform a system that has been highly successful at reducing the crime rate for over 40 years? I don't get it. Yes we do need to reform the system. These criminals that populate the jails of this nation cost the tax paying citizen lots and lots of money every year. In fact I think you will find, should you care to look into this accusation, that it costs more keep a criminal in jail for a year than the average citizen makes in a year. We have managed to turn a justice system into a penal system. Everything is mitigated six ways from Sunday to turn political correctness into the driving force of the entire system. Some will say that we built a system of justice that we could afford. I will say that we have turned the system upside down with political correctness. Since I do not believe in the death penalty, I am compelled to support a system whereby the criminal was removed from our society in order to protect our society. Take them north, Baffin should be a southward place for criminals. All violent offenders should be permanently removed from society, never to return. No second chances, no three strike before you are out. Just pronounced guilty and "transported" to someplace they could never escape from. I suggest these things because there are more second offenders then first offenders going to trial. In my view the court system is letting society down for allowing the convicted felon out and enabling the perpetrator the best opportunity to commit another offense, the freedom to choose. In my opinion justice can only be delivered though the removal of the potential threat to society by removing the convicted felon from society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 There's no evidence it has done any such thing. Oh right. You're one of those people that actually ignores all of the judges, lawyers, academics, police officers, and stats canada on this one. I guess when you close your eyes, put your fingers in your ears, and say "lalala, I can't hear you" there's no evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 I think people who rape and murder 15 year old girls should never be released from prison. Sue me for being strange. And that's not what I have a problem with, obviously. I have a problem with those that were saying he should be killed or tortured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 I suggest these things because there are more second offenders then first offenders going to trial.I would like to see the numbers on this. If that were true, would it not be a good thing? It would suggest that there are relatively few people committing crimes, since it's the same people that keep going through the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiechickin Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Yes we do need to reform the system. These criminals that populate the jails of this nation cost the tax paying citizen lots and lots of money every year. In fact I think you will find, should you care to look into this accusation, that it costs more keep a criminal in jail for a year than the average citizen makes in a year. We have managed to turn a justice system into a penal system. Everything is mitigated six ways from Sunday to turn political correctness into the driving force of the entire system. Some will say that we built a system of justice that we could afford. I will say that we have turned the system upside down with political correctness. Since I do not believe in the death penalty, I am compelled to support a system whereby the criminal was removed from our society in order to protect our society. Take them north, Baffin should be a southward place for criminals. All violent offenders should be permanently removed from society, never to return. No second chances, no three strike before you are out. Just pronounced guilty and "transported" to someplace they could never escape from. As I've said, I'd shoot the bad ones like the mad dogs they are, but if that's too extreme for you sensitive types, may I suggest a ten foot helicopter drop to the Belcher Islands in Hudson's Bay. You get a three day supply of food, a Bic lighter, and a knife, good luck. The point is Canada is no longer wasting $100,000 per year covering your sorry ass every year -- that would be enough to provide dental care to 50 underpriviledged kids every year. The cost of those kids not enduring toothaches alone makes it worthwhile. So what is your preference, feeling better about a sick killer in jail, or some poor kid enduring a toothache because his single Mom doesn'nt have the money to take the kid to the dentist? Its a real choice, there's only so much money to go around for this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilter Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 As I've said, I'd shoot the bad ones like the mad dogs they are, but if that's too extreme for you sensitive types, may I suggest a ten foot helicopter drop to the Belcher Islands in Hudson's Bay. You get a three day supply of food, a Bic lighter, and a knife, good luck. The point is Canada is no longer wasting $100,000 per year covering your sorry ass every year -- that would be enough to provide dental care to 50 underpriviledged kids every year. The cost of those kids not enduring toothaches alone makes it worthwhile. So what is your preference, feeling better about a sick killer in jail, or some poor kid enduring a toothache because his single Mom doesn'nt have the money to take the kid to the dentist? Its a real choice, there's only so much money to go around for this stuff. How about a prison yard 150 miles directly west of Churchill, accessible only by air with a C17 supply drop every 2 weeks also dropping a supply of new murderers & rapists to fill the gap left by those who got killed in the previous 2 weeks.. No guards, no fences just criminals. A circle of heat detectors 25 miles out would let the prison officials know when someone has gotten away so hey could send in a crew of gunners on a "Little Bird" chopper (sort of like they send after the feral pigs in Texas) to help the timber wolves eat. Bernardo deserves no more and with him costing us more than 200 thousand a year this system could help him "rehabilitate" just the route Trudeau wants prisoners to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilter Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Who's purpose would it serve if we allowed the sort of vindictive cruelty some people are suggesting be applied in our justice system? What reason would there be to expect this attitude wouldn't degenerate further until it became the standard by which all convicts are treated? People drop names like Olsen and Bernardo into debates about crime and punishment for the same reason they invoke the ghosts of Hitler and Stalin in debates about national security and defence. The reason why is pretty transparent. The taxpayer's, the family of the victims and not least of all ---- JUSTICE What reason would there be to expect this attitude wouldn't degenerate further until it became the standard by which all convicts are treated? Now yer gettin it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Sure. Give me their phone numbers. I'll call them up. You don't know what I do for a living and I can guarantee you that I've asked more victims what they need from our criminal justice system than the vast majority of people in the country. You don't seem to be aware that the RCMP, government, and academic institutions in our country do actually try to work together to find out how to best serve victims. That's why there have been specialty courts created for family violence. The why the secrecy with this one? Apparantly a rapist and murderer's privacy trumps his victim's right to know why this is being done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 There's no evidence it has done any such thing. What has reduced the crime rate is the baby bust of the 1980's and early 1990's. That reduced the number of people in prime crime ages of 17-25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fellowtraveller Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Since I do not believe in the death penalty, I am compelled to support a system whereby the criminal was removed from our society in order to protect our society. Take them north, Baffin should be a southward place for criminals. All violent offenders should be permanently removed from society, never to return. No second chances, no three strike before you are out. Just pronounced guilty and "transported" to someplace they could never escape from. You do not support the death penalty, but you do support a lifetime of torture. I guess that eliminates cruelty as part of your objection, you seem to enjoy the punishment phase quite a bit. If you object to the state taking a life in any circumstances, would you also support police weapons being replaced with foam bats? Shall we strip our military of all arms and give them basic training in the life and times of Ghandhi instead? It is not only the right of the state to take a life in some circumstances, it is a serious responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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