jbg Posted January 15, 2012 Report Posted January 15, 2012 I understand the definition, thanks. Now go take the time to look up the etymology of the word and I respectfully ask that it not be used. It is offensive. Does it have a disparaging origin? If it did I was totally unaware. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
cybercoma Posted January 15, 2012 Report Posted January 15, 2012 Does it have a disparaging origin? If it did I was totally unaware. It does. It comes from Gypsy, which is ethnically disparaging to the Roma people. It paints them as cons and cheats. That is why I said it's akin to the derogatory remarks made about Jewish people being "cheap". I assumed you weren't aware. I'm not interested in arguing about it. I would just ask that you try to refrain from using that word. Quote
Wilber Posted January 15, 2012 Report Posted January 15, 2012 Does it have a disparaging origin? If it did I was totally unaware. My guess is it would be disparaging toward Gypsies. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
cybercoma Posted January 15, 2012 Report Posted January 15, 2012 My guess is it would be disparaging toward Gypsies. I would ask that you refer to them as Roma or Romani because "Gypsy" is considered derogatory by them, due to its negative connotations. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted January 15, 2012 Report Posted January 15, 2012 I understand the definition, thanks. Now go take the time to look up the etymology of the word and I respectfully ask that it not be used. It is offensive. Ummmm. So is "they asked for it" regarding 3000 innocent deaths, yet you have no problem with that based on the dictionary I just cited for you. In fact, you defended it. You have a lot of gall now objecting to a phrase because you happen to find it offensive. :angry: Quote
Wilber Posted January 15, 2012 Report Posted January 15, 2012 I would ask that you refer to them as Roma or Romani because "Gypsy" is considered derogatory by them, due to its negative connotations. I was commenting on the origin of the word, nothing else was intended. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
cybercoma Posted January 15, 2012 Report Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Ummmm. So is "they asked for it" regarding 3000 innocent deaths, yet you have no problem with that based on the dictionary I just cited for you. In fact, you defended it. You have a lot of gall now objecting to a phrase because you happen to find it offensive. :angry: The people it refers to find it offensive, so I'm asking respectfully that you do not use it. It is no different than using other disparaging words for groups of people that I shouldn't need to illustrate for you. Edited January 15, 2012 by cybercoma Quote
dre Posted January 15, 2012 Report Posted January 15, 2012 Oh jesus... here we go again. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
cybercoma Posted January 15, 2012 Report Posted January 15, 2012 Oh jesus... here we go again. Nah. I don't have anything else to say on the matter. Quote
Scotty Posted January 15, 2012 Report Posted January 15, 2012 I would ask that you refer to them as Roma or Romani because "Gypsy" is considered derogatory by them, due to its negative connotations. What're you, the PC police? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted January 15, 2012 Report Posted January 15, 2012 It does. It comes from Gypsy, which is ethnically disparaging to the Roma people. It paints them as cons and cheats. With a fair degree of accuracy. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted January 15, 2012 Report Posted January 15, 2012 One crucial problem though. The ability to remarry, either with a different or same sex partner. I don't think that would be an issue with a partner of a different sex. Since the state doesn't recognize that your original marriage has any legitimacy it won't object to you marrying again. I can't speak to the gay marriage thing, as to how the states which allow gay marriage would treat it. But if there's a problem for gay Americans getting divorced perhaps one of those states which allow and recognize gay marriage might consider lifting their own residency requirements... Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Wilber Posted January 15, 2012 Report Posted January 15, 2012 With a fair degree of accuracy. When in Roma, watch out. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Scotty Posted January 15, 2012 Report Posted January 15, 2012 When in Roma, watch out. I saw a BBC show a few months back on a Roma village. I think it was in France or Italy. It wasn't on the roma as a whole but on how they marry girls off so young. It seems that the value of a girl (who gets married around 14 or so) is related to how much money she can bring in through her thievery. The cameras trailed these three young girls, as well as a couple of boys into the city every day, and watched how they tried to steal money from people at ATM machines, shoplift, steal purses, etc. etc. It wasn't very flattering to the Roma, uhm, culture. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Wilber Posted January 15, 2012 Report Posted January 15, 2012 I saw a BBC show a few months back on a Roma village. I think it was in France or Italy. It wasn't on the roma as a whole but on how they marry girls off so young. It seems that the value of a girl (who gets married around 14 or so) is related to how much money she can bring in through her thievery. The cameras trailed these three young girls, as well as a couple of boys into the city every day, and watched how they tried to steal money from people at ATM machines, shoplift, steal purses, etc. etc. It wasn't very flattering to the Roma, uhm, culture. I was referring to Rome itself. Hang on to you wallet if you are on a bus. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
waldo Posted January 16, 2012 Report Posted January 16, 2012 anti-Harper yahoos? Really? I note you chiming in now numerous times on both concurrently running threads that speak to gay marriage/divorce in Canada... for the "anti-Harper yahoos" you call out, care to reconcile your latest statements in these newest threads, with your earlier posts that have you highlighting, 'being gay as a behavioural disorder' and 'accommodating gay abnormalities'? As you see it, are these two threads simply representative of Harper Conservatives, 'working to accommodate the abnormality and manage a behavioural disorder within Canadian law'? As usual, you show you are nothing but a tourist that has no comprehension of the arguments presented. It is scientific fact that psychopathy and homosexuality are biological abnormalities caused by some unknown combination of genetic and environmental factors. I made the comparison to illustrate the ridiculous hypocrisy of the lefty types calling for state sanctioned discrimination against a group of people with "abnormalities". My position in that thread was there should not be discrimination based on the diagnosis of abnormalities whether those abnormalities are homosexuality, psychopathy or whatever. Discrimination to protect the public can only be based an actual history of criminal acts. I note your reply has you, quite purposely, ignoring your earlier equating of gay/lesbian sexual orientation to a ‘behavioural disorder’… is there a problem? Is there a reason you’ve now chosen to avoid mentioning, avoid reinforcing, your previous use and attachment of ‘behavioural disorder’? within the other thread, you liberally mixed your use of psychopathy and psychopath and you explicitly spoke to each in terms of equating psychopathy/psychopath to both mental illness and behavioural disorder. I will gladly re-quote your very words in this regard. of course, as stated, you ramped that up by comparing homosexuality to psychopathy/psychopaths… and challenging others to refute the basis for your comparison, one resting upon your declared equate (to mental illness and behavioural disorder). most emphatically, gay/lesbian orientations are not disorders… there is no inherent association between gay/lesbian sexual orientation and psychopathology. Homosexual behaviour is a normal aspect of human sexuality. in your context use of (improperly) equating gay/lesbian sexual orientation to mental illness/behavioural disorder, you spoke of abnormal, of brain abnormalities… your equating gay/lesbians to psychopaths, most clearly had you implying negative, undesirable behaviour. Yeah because psychopathy is just like homosexuality... and you criticize waldo for poor comprehension. uhhh... it was actually a baseless criticism for being a, "tourist with no comprehension" but, as you highlighted, the poor TimG "comprehension" is on full display. Quote
TimG Posted January 16, 2012 Report Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) most emphatically, gay/lesbian orientations are not disorders… there is no inherent association between gay/lesbian sexual orientation and psychopathology. Homosexual behaviour is a normal aspect of human sexuality.If you want to argue that then one can argue that psychopathy and addiction are normal aspects of human brain development. You are making arbitrary distinctions that have no rational basis. It does not change the fact that both psychopathy and homesexuality are abnormalities (genetic variations which are outside the statistically defined norm). Your argument can be summed up as "the sky is purple because I say the sky is purple". Edited January 16, 2012 by TimG Quote
cybercoma Posted January 16, 2012 Report Posted January 16, 2012 Homosexuality is genetic? This has been confirmed? Quote
TimG Posted January 16, 2012 Report Posted January 16, 2012 Homosexuality is genetic? This has been confirmed?I don't know. I am assuming it is combination of genetic and environmental causes since so many other abnormalities have similar causes. The causes do not change my argument. Quote
cybercoma Posted January 16, 2012 Report Posted January 16, 2012 The problem with that whole stupid argument from the other thread until now is that psychopathy makes a person dangerous to themselves and others. Homosexuality does not. Regardless of whether a person can help being a psychopath or not, they need help and other need protection from them. Homosexuals don't need help and others don't need to be protected from homosexuals. Quote
TimG Posted January 16, 2012 Report Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) The problem with that whole stupid argument from the other thread until now is that psychopathy makes a person dangerous to themselves and others.Why is a psychopath any more dangerous than someone motivated by fanatical devotion to a cause? I suspect many more crimes have been committed by zealots of one form or another than psychopaths (largely because the former is a much larger group). What you are missing is your apriori vilification of psychopaths based on what they might do is no more justified than any other form of apriori discrimination based on a diagnosis of 'abnormalities' (i.e. homosexuality). The only benchmark that can be used is a record of actual crimes. Edited January 16, 2012 by TimG Quote
cybercoma Posted January 16, 2012 Report Posted January 16, 2012 Why is a psychopath any more dangerous than someone motivated by fanatical devotion to a cause? I suspect many more crimes have been committed by zealots of one form or another than psychopaths (largely because the former is a much larger group). What you are missing is your apriori vilification of psychopaths based on what they might do is no more justified than any other form of apriori discrimination based on a diagnosis of 'abnormalities' (i.e. homosexuality). The only benchmark that can be used is a record of actual crimes. If you had any clue as to what's on the PCL-R, you would know that criminal behaviour is one of the "benchmarks" for determining the degree to which someone is a psychopath. Quote
TimG Posted January 16, 2012 Report Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) would know that criminal behaviour is one of the "benchmarks" for determining the degree to which someone is a psychopath.Yet that is not the only criteria. You are advocating for a system where people would labelled and deemed unemployable in jobs they are good at based on the results of a dubious test. I have no interest in that kind of 'pre-crime detection system'. If there is to be discrimination it is to be based on an actual criminal record. Tests for psychopathy or whatever are a disctraction. Edited January 16, 2012 by TimG Quote
cybercoma Posted January 16, 2012 Report Posted January 16, 2012 I'm not advocating anything. All I said is that psychopathy is dangerous and homosexuality is not. Quote
waldo Posted January 16, 2012 Report Posted January 16, 2012 of course, as stated, you ramped that up by comparing homosexuality to psychopathy/psychopaths… and challenging others to refute the basis for your comparison, one resting upon your declared equate (to mental illness and behavioural disorder). most emphatically, gay/lesbian orientations are not disorders… there is no inherent association between gay/lesbian sexual orientation and psychopathology. Homosexual behaviour is a normal aspect of human sexuality. in your context use of (improperly) equating gay/lesbian sexual orientation to mental illness/behavioural disorder, you spoke of abnormal, of brain abnormalities… your equating gay/lesbians to psychopaths, most clearly had you implying negative, undesirable behaviour. If you want to argue that then one can argue that psychopathy and addiction are normal aspects of human brain development. You are making arbitrary distinctions that have no rational basis. It does not change the fact that both psychopathy and homesexuality are abnormalities (genetic variations which are outside the statistically defined norm). Your argument can be summed up as "the sky is purple because I say the sky is purple". most clearly, most definitely, your intention in speaking to abnormality was not in the benign sense of "outside the statistically defined norm"... rather, by you equating gay/lesbian sexual orientation to mental illness, to a behavioural disorder, you intended and implied a negative undesirable behaviour... anything but the benign reach you're now back-peddling to. Again, is there a problem, a reason, you won't (again) mention the same words you quite easily threw around previously - behavioural disorder? Quote
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