Women's Rights !

[Tawasakm]

  No mandatory counselling; it could be abused or demoralizing for someone who has put serious thought into her decision.

It could be abused yes and would need some good inbuilt safeguards. My concern here is that people seeking abortions, particularly young teenagers, are making informed decisions. The only way, to my mind, that it is possible to know this is by introducing mandatory counselling. While the person may have put serious thought into the decision that does not infer a) that the decision was well informed in all aspects possible, that the decision may not be rushed, pressured or panicked.

Counselling, properly conducted, could also act to counterbalance demands being placed on the individual concerned by significant others in so far as it would allow a decision to be made with access to all the facts.

Please explain to me how we can be sure that a person seeking an abortion really knows what they are getting into and are fully aware of all options and their possible consequences?

[caesar]

No, you convince me that they will not be coerced by the counsellors. A counsellor could be offered but should not be mandatory.

[belfred]

At least one glaring viewpoint has emerged in this thread and is deserving of further observation.

Generally, I believe a majority of women want to bear to full term the child conceived , but , some wish to preserve the right to terminate the conception should they, deem it necessary.

Necessary may translate as;

- not the right time,

- unaffordable,

- deformed birth,

- forced conception,

- career,

- have enough already,

- lessen good sex,

- don't want a child,

- too old,

- not going to marry partner,

- response to partner,

- too young.

I'm certain I've missed some but these represent the core pleadings when abortion is being considered. I purposefully ignored 'it's my body and I can do want I want with it' because all of the above flow from those very words.

I'm convinced the above reasons are advanced by intelligent and honest women who, at the time of a decision to halt a pregnancy, sincerely believe this is the only reasonable choice available in the circumstances.

Rather than annoy , cajole , or threaten women of choice, I would simple ask that in good conscience these women add to their list of choices, in order to develop a full and sensitive response of fairness.

The following brief comments are by no means complete. The women of concern are the omega, for it is the chapter in their life that is reflected.

Options to abandoning the conception.

- a massive amount of pure love,

- your husband/partners' love of you and the child you

bear,

- the movements of the child near you heart,

- the words of love you whisper to the child within,

- the joy of love born through your discomfort,

- the little hands seeking to embrace the love of parent,

- a tiny body lying in the embrace of mother,

- the eyes of love looking into the eyes of love,

- the bonding of mother, father, and infant, and love,

- the pride of parents expressed in love of child,.........

If you are distant and for whatever reason aloof from the thundering love in your being when in conception , you need not dispair yourself into ending the pending birth.

Embrace the concept of your offspring being in the loving care of someone who, has all of the capacities your circumstances have denied you, except the ability to bear a child of their own. What a wonderful gift and opportunity of love you offer. Give your child the rewards you yourself cannot give. In the end result you will have given much. Your son or daughter retained the love of life.

Personal and true love is not a spectator sport. It visits us selectively. Lets not ignore priceless value for selfish gain.

[playfullfellow]

Caesar, you make it sound like most men are woman beating scumbags. Yeah, there are neanderthal scumbags like that around and they should be taken behind the woodshed and given some of the same. I also know a lot of men who are very compassionate people.

Over the years I have met a few women who have had an abortion and they really struggle with the decision they made. Some are older women and some are younger. I think some sort of counselling before hand would be good, let's show people there are other viable options.

As for men forcing the woman to have an abortion, I would like to see some stats on this if there are any. I doubt there are any but it might be interesting to see if we men are the neanderthals that we are portrayed all the time.

As for the counselling turning to preaching, well that would depend on the counsellor, wouldn't it? But how come this is not part of the initial interview at the abortion clinic when the woman goes there? Why are they not represented with other options at that point? Well, the clinic might lose a customer and the fees they can charge.

[Tawasakm]

caesar  Posted on Jul 26 2004, 03:46 AM

No, you convince me that they will not be coerced by the counsellors. A counsellor could be offered but should not be mandatory.

I'm not certain that we are talking about the same thing here. I'm not talking about coercion. I'm not talking about providing as counsellor a party that has a vested interest or an agenda that they will pursue in regards to presuppostions relating to the morality and/or predetermined courses of appropriate action.

What I am advocating is a way to ensure informed choice. Abortion is not reversible and there are psychological affects. Under these circumstances I think there should be full disclosure to an individual regarding all options and risks etc.

playfullfellow  Posted on Jul 26 2004, 09:32 AM

Caesar, you make it sound like most men are woman beating scumbags.

The same thought had crossed my mind. However you said your views are based on personal experience. Perhaps you could share with us, in a way with which you are comfortable and without specifics, what it is in your personal experience that leads you to believe that counselling will be suborned into coercion and why the majority of cases will involve such negative male motivation?

[RB]

I don't largely hold the believe that men are the beating kind, but honest, decent people.

I think that while women are advocating changes for themselves and have created tons of options for the female that in the interim men were not given some changed model to work with and is still kept with the traditional social perception of their role.

But I strongly support any options available to the female in their decide making process - this time they are independant and can think for themselves

I am sorry I haven’t been able to find in all sincerity a female mentor so I usually invariably declared my own path, but also eternally grateful of my male mentor, Armstrong who went and died on me, but I think his widow Sally Armstrong a strong feminist and mother might have had some influence and motivated him in the way he pointed my direction.

I think what is missing is for the females are female roles models to demonstrate real capabilities of the female and whom can transcend that seed of ambition and who can also demonstrate that power and achievement are not incompatible with femininity, the female sexuality and shared responsibilities in a home.

[Guest eureka]

Hugo!

See my post in a few minutes from now on your ideas of comparative privatization. Posting there because it is where it properly belongs.

[I miss Reagan]

To all the men commenting on abortion:

"MYOB" :angry:

To all women wanting child support MYOB!