belfred

By now most of you are familiar with the special unit of the Toronto Police Services, killing a fierce and deranged male holding a hostage and threatening her life. It's was anything but a made for television drama. A life was ended so anothers could be spared. The death is most unfortunate. The effort to resolve it peacefully was of no avail. The situation became acute as time passed. The teams unit commander, decided the life of the hostage was in imminent danger and ordered the use of deadly force. His decision was the correct one. Now if the hindsighters wish to replay this scene , try to be a little more on the side of facts and less injection of fantasy.

Maple.. You do yourself a great disservice. Rather than search your arena's for topics that interest you, why not embrace a search of interest to the audience you serve? After all, many positions that may be offered, often are subdued or withdrawn altogether because you leave so little room for reason. Just a thought. belfred.

Maple S. Under the Ontario Progressive Conservative watch, personal taxes decreased, service fees were watchdog alert, seniors were recognized, welfare frauds were reduced, employment levels rose, small business strengthened, and it was a conservative goal to make living in this province of Ontario, affordable, was nearing record success. In the Harris progress effort, and to a lesser degree Eves, ONTARIO , became a viable province of opportunity. Those who chose to abuse the system of social assistance were defeated soundly. They who attempted every sound effort of support to conserve dwindling energy resourses made significant gains. A strong Ontario Conservative government kept its' promises to Ontarians. !!!!! Please say a few words in confidence about these positives !!

JWayne625 - I concur, our home tube viewing is severely restricted by the Canadian Radio and Television Commission. In fact, not long ago I undertook a scaled down research into the reasons why Canadian TV viewers are hobbled so. Surprisingly, the discoveries I made were rather obvious. Here are a few examples. - Canadian Producers of Movies for TV have long lobbied against foreign markets invading the film industry. - American Television giants want prohibitive returns for investing in our programming. -Canadian artists in the movie , television , and music video industry seldom graduate into the more lucrative USA markets. -Canadian entertainment industry has the unqualified support of Parliament to reduce and continue reducing air time to foreign broadcasting. In a word, the CRTC enforces the will of the Government. I rather doubt the current policy will be reversed because a handful of Canadians don't approve. The only other method of gaining unfettered access to the American market is illegal. There are quiet but vigorous prosecutions taking place against those who steal TV signals.

Terrible S :- Both you and Hugo have left the purpose of my post (to save the life of the unborn and the aged) some threads back . Both of you have offered intelligent exchanges. I'm certain at best you'll end up agreeing to disagree. You must have an element faith in the existence of a Creator, who, is the single source of all life on earth. If not, no amount of scientific data , professional opinions , or the teachings of scholastic theology, will alter your position. " For those who have faith, no explanation is necessary for those who do not, no explanation is possible." dialogue from the movie "Song of Bernadette" I cannot furnish beyond this.

I think we realize the Zhang murder case will be frequently before us as various media sources compete for our attention. All releases will have a sensational value at one level or another. Most will contain a small element of fact with a huge amount of speculation. Oh, and yes, many so called 'quotes' will be the third party variety. You know the kind I refer to. We must be careful to examine all we hear or read about this case for the element of truth. Remember a question of fact hinges on evidence, whereas, fictitious information is the work of an active imagination. The eventual trial and finding regarding the guilt or innocence of the accused , will not be based on a balance of probabilities. Maple, don't know where your going with the med's reference.

In my opinion, if a person is purposefully seeking to avoid lawful prosecution through flight and/or a warrant has been issued for his/her apprehension, the individual should not be able to escape apprehension by securing himself /herself in a place of worship , embassy or consolate, or any public or private shelter. Notwithstanding the foregoing, if an individual is attempting to avoid persecution and is from a country other than Canada, every opportunity should be afforded the individual to make a case for refugee status, without the need for prolonged detention. It must be clearly established the applicant is not or does not pose a threat to the peace and security within Canada, prior to liberty, pending a hearing. I realize this may be a tad simplistic.

Krustykidd :- I'm not a memeber of the legal profession , not one iota of legal training, advancing you an opinion based on law is not available. I really can't even argue against your assertion the question you pose is developed from law. Now, having given you this assurance please try to understand my save the children appeal. Women, in pregnancy following sex without consent , learning a horrible distortion rests within their body , or, some other condition they feel the need to terminate , must be given the opportunity to express their innate love of the child. I believe your own evident maturity will authenticate my genuine belief, most women with child would prefer carrying it to term even if they themselves will not raise it. My earlier post cited examples some women will use to justify arresting the development. You may wish to examine them. But what if I could convince those who seek to prevent a live birth , something I really believe is inherently repulsive to women in pregnancy, to seriously think about alternatives. A cesarean section, is relatively discomfort free, and delivers the joy and love a child naturally brings to all. One visit to a hospital maternity delivery room will affirm this! I'm content in the knowledge that women using this method of delivery are pleased how quickly they return to former physical "attractiveness". Whether a natural birth or one by cesarean section let the biological mothers rest comfortabley knowing, there are many potential couples waiting to hear the words, a child is born waiting to receive the warmth and love of your care. This is the single message I wish to convey to all women of choice. Let him or her live so others may enjoy the fruits of your labour. Parents in waiting do not discriminate. The plus or minus features of the child they are about to receive is all predicated on love. Whether my post satisfys your search for the answers you seek is not the issue here. Imploring women of choice to bring the unwanted into the world is. I sure wish I could count on your help and the help of many others to attain higher success numbers. It's all about love !

CanadaRocks:- Your university research must have taken you to various sources speaking to the 'pros & cons' of marijuana. I found the following particularly helpful to my appreciation of the subject. This and some excellent reply's to your query should add considerably to your library of information. http://www.nida.nih.gov/MarijBroch/Marijteens.html Good luck in your continuing research on the subject.

august1991: Your best opinion hardly confers advantage or preference. Your quote fails to address my point , if in fact that was ever your intention. Your effort to turn aside my care for this delicate subject, speaks clearly to your own distress or unhappiness. It's certainly was not my intention to inflict more grief through my remarks.

black dog; I don't believe my message was unclear. I am asking women of choice , especially those with child, to make a decision permitting the delivery of this bundle of love. You know as well as I , my asking is the only course available to me, in my attempts to persuade pregnant women to deliver their unwanted babies into the arms of loving but unproductive parents. Would you have readers believe this adoption option is, in some way 'evil' or injurious to the delivery mother? Please share more of your thoughts in this regard.

TheTerrible Sweal :- Obviously you were fortunate enough to make it 'into the world' . The choice made, favoured your entrance, and mine for that matter. Myself, and those who would agree, would like to see more of the of "let live choices" . Does that prospect offend you or your lifestyle? Your opinions are important to me and I suspect others with interest in this very often vilified subject.

Cultural and/or social funding in the City of Toronto approaches, if not exceeds , fifty millions of dollars annually. I want to discover how many wacko organizations my tax dollars are funding ,and the number of organizations abusing this benevolence. I have made application for these figures under the freedom of information act provisions. I'll keep you posted.

At least one glaring viewpoint has emerged in this thread and is deserving of further observation. Generally, I believe a majority of women want to bear to full term the child conceived , but , some wish to preserve the right to terminate the conception should they, deem it necessary. Necessary may translate as; - not the right time, - unaffordable, - deformed birth, - forced conception, - career, - have enough already, - lessen good sex, - don't want a child, - too old, - not going to marry partner, - response to partner, - too young. I'm certain I've missed some but these represent the core pleadings when abortion is being considered. I purposefully ignored 'it's my body and I can do want I want with it' because all of the above flow from those very words. I'm convinced the above reasons are advanced by intelligent and honest women who, at the time of a decision to halt a pregnancy, sincerely believe this is the only reasonable choice available in the circumstances. Rather than annoy , cajole , or threaten women of choice, I would simple ask that in good conscience these women add to their list of choices, in order to develop a full and sensitive response of fairness. The following brief comments are by no means complete. The women of concern are the omega, for it is the chapter in their life that is reflected. Options to abandoning the conception. - a massive amount of pure love, - your husband/partners' love of you and the child you bear, - the movements of the child near you heart, - the words of love you whisper to the child within, - the joy of love born through your discomfort, - the little hands seeking to embrace the love of parent, - a tiny body lying in the embrace of mother, - the eyes of love looking into the eyes of love, - the bonding of mother, father, and infant, and love, - the pride of parents expressed in love of child,......... If you are distant and for whatever reason aloof from the thundering love in your being when in conception , you need not dispair yourself into ending the pending birth. Embrace the concept of your offspring being in the loving care of someone who, has all of the capacities your circumstances have denied you, except the ability to bear a child of their own. What a wonderful gift and opportunity of love you offer. Give your child the rewards you yourself cannot give. In the end result you will have given much. Your son or daughter retained the love of life. Personal and true love is not a spectator sport. It visits us selectively. Lets not ignore priceless value for selfish gain.

Argus : When you are driven to launch criticism of the Canadian system of Universal Health Care, or, asking readers to consider other important issues for that matter, you must be within range of a known possibilty or probability. In truth, your scenario is as far out as a lighthouse. But I give you an A+ for entertainment value.

I wonder if any would agree, the root cause behind declining Canadian births is closely associated with 'selfishness'. The kind that sees goods and possessions as being the first order in 'family' business. A terribly distorted value system has spread over our country . Is the bearing of children no longer the priceless gift it once was ? Where does this current thinking take us ?

maplesyrup/playfullfellow You both seem to be centering on the 'guilt or innocence' of Chief Catney, and in a general way all police services. As far as I know he is free of any guilt in any particular crime or offense. I have stated previously he exceeded reasonableness in a segment of his statement to the media. We all agree on that point. Are you not both overly stating your displeasure with a general and unwarranted questioning of police 'honesty and integrity'? There are bound to be errors in police work, like any other occupation or profession. Some more serious than others. But does that really call into question a sinister motive or motives for the mistake(s)? I recommend you both revisit the statistics involving the arrest and susequent charging of the accused with capital murder. From what we learn they are considerable and involved. But a political agenda or plot I could not discover in the material. Follow the case at hand and be less active trying to impune the good name of police forces and thier chiefs. "Ne Mo me impune laccssit" motto of Scotland and Order of the Thistle. ( no one attacks me with impunity)

alliance fanatic : I'm not unsympathetic with your call for a severe penalty in this murder of a child. Nor, am I at odds with your defense of the Peel Regional Police Chief, though, some of his comments to the media were of a personal nature and should have remained as such. I too take slight umbarage with some of blackdog & maplesyrups' writing , but , I must confess in fairness to both , I failed to note their calling for Chief Catney to resign or be dismissed. The closest to calling for his 'head' was identified in blackdogs' assertion that if, the accused escaped justice and this was a direct result of Catneys' aberrant remarks, then the Chief should be removed from office. The whole of this case has placed a great deal of emotional strain on all of us. Some more that others. I estimate we're looking at a good 2 years down the road before this case comes to trial. When the time arrives justice will be served. If convicted the accused will spend a minimun of 25 years behind bars before being considered for parole. I can assure you if he goes to prison, those 25 years will be the most unpleasant of his life. Vigilante justice is alive and thriving in our federal places of detention.

maplesyrup : To the contrary, we are minding our business. Your quick to remind us of this fact in a court of separation. Lets not be so selective as to issues males may or may not become embroiled in. Disagree if you must, thats a given. But don't attempt personal censorship on anyone!

This only happens to young people? Of course, avarice was not a problem several thousand years ago.Please get off your high horse and be more realistic in your posts when discussing a question that is real to those who must choose. The fact of the matter is that any attempt to forbid abortions would create more havoc, pain, suffering and immorality than allowing abortions does. The issue of abortion must be seen pragmatically. August1991 - Evidently, I touched a nerve in your emotional system. Not intended I assure you. As for the high horse comment, I assume your elevating your displeasure with the general thrust of my comments. That's fair. I didn't mean to imply only 'young people' are fools rushing in, in the heat of the moment. Let me assure you the remarks are inclusive of all so smitten. As for several thousand years before my time, I can hardly offer you a definitive reply regarding avarice. But you knew that didn't you? There are several excellent alternatives to abortion. I, for one, recommend women in unwanted pregnancy thoroughly explore them. It's not that difficult to do. I have the greatest empathy for any woman in an unwanted state of being with child. I wish I could be more help personally.

Caesar , Despite the horror surrounding the murder of young Cecilia, our appropriate call for justice must be tempered with Canadian jurisprudence. Vigilante justice , self appointed doers of justice, can never be permitted acceptance under any circumstances; nor should it. In some of Chief Catney's remarks, he gave a personal and obviously prejudiced outlook. There will be mountains of legal arguments advanced on behalf of the accused. Defense counsel will adamantly plea for a change of venue. There will be crys of foul and justice impeded, as oppposing counsel prepare legal briefs and/or presentations for the learned jurist. When the trial finally begins a jury of his peers , not anyone else, will decide the fate of the accused. I am in favour of the death penalty. Unfortunately, Canada abolished capital punishment in the late 1970's. :angry:

Thoughtful reply Caesar. I believe, as you, the 'fire' of young people delivered into the arms of passion contribute to many pregnancies. Perhaps if parental education was given in those early formative years 'avoidance', abstention, would be more clearly understood by the impassioned couple. Fear of having the 'child' , losing face in the family home, or giving up profitable occupations most often are reasons for bringing termination to a pregnancy. But give the unborn a fighting chance ! One choice only please. If your pregnant you have had your one choice!

For some time now I have been asking myself where I truly stand on the issue of right to life. I am concerned with the rights of the unborn, the rights of the very old, and the rights of women. -a woman with child has every right to exercise her option;to become pregnant or not. If she freely chooses the former, thats her choice. End of story. I'm firmly opposed to her being given a further choice ,if, she intends to end the life of her unborn. Thats not fair. -the very old are in real danger of death before their time. Increasingly, and because avarice is spreading rapidly through our world , care for the old until natural death is viewed by increasing numbers of care givers and politicians, as a prohibitive and unnecessary cost. -Euthanasia is creeping slowly, but with determination into the elderly care programs. It's not fair to impose this on persons unable to fend for themselves. -Praise be to our women of the world.

I do believe Police Chief Catney, was overwhelmed by the magnitude and scope of this investigation. With the apprehension and arrest of a prime suspect. the Chief, unwittingly blundered. Though years of training in police practices are his to claim, during the press conference he allowed his true feelings to manifest and become visible. It was a very serious error on the part of Chief Catney,but, this is a particularly horrendous act of the murder of a defenseless child. Catney, allowed his humanity, to overshadow his police discipline. I'm certain he knew his mistake once uttered. If the accused is convicted of the crime for which he now stands charged, it won't be because of Chief Catney's aberrant moment in front of the media. The factual evidence adduced during trial will affirm the guilt or innocence of the accused.

Over the past several weeks much has been written about the Police Services Board (toronto) and their refusal not to renew a contract with Mr. Fantino in March of 2005. Personally, I 'm offended by the arrogance of a certain Board member, Councillor Pam O'Connell, for the contempt she has shown Chief Fantino , since her appointment. I am equally angered that politics alone have denied this outstanding law enforcement officer, a return to the position he discharges so efficiently. Life goes on. I fully expect to appreciate an active Julian Fantino, in either municipal or provincial politics. He's to valuable to the people of this city,nay, the province to stay at home for his remaining days on earth. Julian Fantino, would make a great Mayor of Toronto or, a sitting member of the Ontario Legislative Assembly. Go for it Julian ! You've earned our trust and repect.