Who is the greatest Prime Minister of all time?

[Bryan]

You voted for Harper? You mean you live in Calgary Southwest riding/

Who someone is voting for is a personal decision that extends beyond the name on the ballot. There's both a name and a party on that ballot, people's votes are often for the latter.

I really did vote for my MP in the last two elections because I know her and volunteered on her campaign. The previous candidates in my riding I most certainly did not vote for. I put an X next to the box that had the name of the party I was voting for, who that local rep was at the time wasn't even relevant. It was the leader I was voting for.

[waldo]

How do you know these are newly registered members? What do you base this on? There are a fair number of conservative leaning posters here, and 20 votes is not really all that much.

how do I know, know? Follow the voting pattern. I didn't follow the thread initially but over time began to regularly check the results... as much out of a like bemusement to posts highlighting the lack of Mulroney votes. At some point the votes petered out... and then after a noticeable time period... as Shakeyhands so eloquently pointed out, the booster club materialized. I referred to them as Blogging Tories or PMO staffers.

As for Harper. I voted for the man and likely will again. But he's accomplished nothing thus far of lasting significance. It doesn't help that his majority coincides with a long, deep, worldwide recession, which severely limits his options, of course.

and that's the reality... let's see what he actually does with the majority - there are certainly no significant accomplishments to warrant the level of votes received.

[CPCFTW]

how do I know, know? Follow the voting pattern. I didn't follow the thread initially but over time began to regularly check the results... as much out of a like bemusement to posts highlighting the lack of Mulroney votes. At some point the votes petered out... and then after a noticeable time period... as Shakeyhands so eloquently pointed out, the booster club materialized. I referred to them as Blogging Tories or PMO staffers.

and that's the reality... let's see what he actually does with the majority - there are certainly no significant accomplishments to warrant the level of votes received.

Yes it was rigged by the powers that be.. just like Harper's wins, Bush v Gore, and the 9-11 attacks. You caught us!

[waldo]

Yes it was rigged by the powers that be.. just like Harper's wins, Bush v Gore, and the 9-11 attacks. You caught us!

well said... 'FTW' guy!

uhhh... just what significant accomplishments merit Harper's "greatest"... of all time... of all time... anointment, hey? For the win!!!

by the by: most recent 2011 Angus Reid Poll

KEY FINDINGS

Best PM since 1968: Trudeau 36% (-2), Harper 19% (+8%), Chrétien 12% (-1), Mulroney 6% (-1)

Worst PM since 1968: Mulroney 19% (-5), Harper 19% (+1), Trudeau 13% (+1), Chrétien 10% (=)

2011 Macleans survey ('from experts in history, political science, international relations, economics, and other relevant fields')

- ranked order: Laurier, Macdonald, King, Pearson, Trudeau, Chretien, Laurent, Borden, Mulroney, Diefenbaker, Harper, Bennett, Mackenzie, Thompson, Martin, Meighen, Clark, Tupper, Abbott, Turner, Bowell, Campbell

Edited January 3, 2012 by waldo

[prairiechickin]

well said... 'FTW' guy!

2011 Macleans survey ('from experts in history, political science, international relations, economics, and other relevant fields')

- ranked order: Laurier, Macdonald, King, Pearson, Trudeau, Chretien, Laurent, Borden, Mulroney, Diefenbaker, Harper, Bennett, Mackenzie, Thompson, Martin, Meighen, Clark, Tupper, Abbott, Turner, Bowell, Campbell

Interesting list, and I could go along with most of it with a couple of quibbles. I rank Trudeau first because he had the greatest impact on the Canada I grew up in. I didn't agree with a lot of what he did, but I admired him because he had real vision of what he thought Canada could be, and love him or hate him, he did what he said he was going to do. Laurier makes second for me because he was such a great statesman and sailed the Canadian ship through some pretty rough French/English turmoil. I'm ok with Macdonald at #3, for all his shortcomings, like Trudeau he had vision and was essentially an honest man. King I have a problem with. While I admire him for his tenacity and longevity in office, I dislike him more for what he didn't do. He had his hand on the tiller through some pretty big events in Canadian history, yet had the maddening habit of procrastination if only to wear his political opponents down. King lacked vision, and seemed interested in power for power's sake, so I don't rank him that high. The rest of the list seems ok to me except for Mulroney. He was at best a puppet for right wing forces around him, at worst an outright bounder who abused the office of prime minister for personal enrichment while promoting grand changes that I doubt he even understood.

[Tilter]

Well there is a statement for you!

Yeah, I wonder why no one has voted for the nice guy who brot us the GST. It's an eternal mystery and will never be answered.

[jbg]

Yeah, I wonder why no one has voted for the nice guy who brot us the GST. It's an eternal mystery and will never be answered.

Well, one did.

[CPCFTW]

well said... 'FTW' guy!

uhhh... just what significant accomplishments merit Harper's "greatest"... of all time... of all time... anointment, hey? For the win!!!

by the by: most recent 2011 Angus Reid Poll

2011 Macleans survey ('from experts in history, political science, international relations, economics, and other relevant fields')

- ranked order: Laurier, Macdonald, King, Pearson, Trudeau, Chretien, Laurent, Borden, Mulroney, Diefenbaker, Harper, Bennett, Mackenzie, Thompson, Martin, Meighen, Clark, Tupper, Abbott, Turner, Bowell, Campbell

What does a McLean's survey of experts have to do with an online poll? Does anyone really care what "experts" in political science and history think? Iggy would be PM right now if they did.

Fact is that 21 people on this forum voted for Harper, whether or not they believe he is the greatest PM in Canadian history now, or if he will be viewed as such by the end of his career. It's not some conspiracy by "blogging tories and PMO staffers" to get 20 people to vote for Harper on these forums. Hell, you just posted a link to a survey of 1000 Canadians of which 19%, or over 190 people voted for him.

I don't care if your argument is that he should not be considered the greatest PM, but to brush off the results of an internet poll with 50 respondents as some sort of Tory conspiracy is pathetic. If you're going to brush it off, brush it off because there are only 50 freaking respondents.

Edited January 3, 2012 by CPCFTW

[waldo]

so ya... "FTW"... nothing to say on why Harper should be considered the 'greatest of all time'... of all time!

[Evening Star]

Does anyone really care what "experts" in political science and history think? Iggy would be PM right now if they did.

Was there some kind of academic consensus in favour of Ignatieff? I never had that impression but I'd be interested in seeing evidence of it.

And yes, I do care.

[CPCFTW]

Was there some kind of academic consensus in favour of Ignatieff? I never had that impression but I'd be interested in seeing evidence of it.

And yes, I do care.

I was referring to the fact that Iggy himself was a history "expert".

[CPCFTW]

so ya... "FTW"... nothing to say on why Harper should be considered the 'greatest of all time'... of all time!

People may have voted for him in this poll based on where they think this country will be by the end of his career. I voted for him based on my belief that he will have 7 more years to cement his legacy and save Canada from going the way of Europe. Harper certainly wouldn't be considered the greatest of all time if he fails to live up to my lofty expectations. I don't think Canada has had many great prime ministers though. We just happen to be living on a land blessed with an abundance of natural resources and with a friendly world superpower as our neighbor. Modern Canada is a success born from circumstances, not from leadership.

Edited January 3, 2012 by CPCFTW

[waldo]

People may have voted for him in this poll based on where they think this country will be by the end of his career. I voted for him based on my belief that he will have 7 more years to cement his legacy and save Canada from going the way of Europe.

good on ya! Having the courage to admit that Harper has no existing foundation to support... your... poll vote, is your first step. On the other hand, the fact you so unabashedly admit you voted Harper as the greatest... of all time... based on your expectations of what he may or may not do, may lead some to question the soundness of your, err... rationale/logic - just sayin!

[cybercoma]

What does a McLean's survey of experts have to do with an online poll? Does anyone really care what "experts" in political science and history think? Iggy would be PM right now if they did.

Well, since they know a hell of a lot more about history and politics than you, I'm pretty sure most people care more about what they think than what you think on this subject.

[cybercoma]

good on ya! Having the courage to admit that Harper has no existing foundation to support... your... poll vote, is your first step. On the other hand, the fact you so unabashedly admit you voted Harper as the greatest... of all time... based on your expectations of what he may or may not do, may lead some to question the soundness of your, err... rationale/logic - just sayin!

I don't think people really question it anymore.

[Guest Manny]

the fact you so unabashedly admit you voted Harper as the greatest... of all time... based on your expectations of what he may or may not do, may lead some to question the soundness of your, err... rationale/logic - just sayin!

the road to hell is paved with... great expectations

[prairiechickin]

the road to hell is paved with... great expectations

and overused expressions...

[Guest Manny]

and overused expressions...

Not really, I changed it from the original "good intentions".

Guess you misses that one, hey?

Whoosh

[Topaz]

The greatest PM of all times has been elected yet, but SHE will be.

[WWWTT]

Modern Canada is a success born from circumstances, not from leadership.

I agree!

But then why did you vote for Harper?

And can you imagine how much better Canada would be if we had some good leaders,perhaps from the NDP!

WWWTT

[jbg]

I agree!

But then why did you vote for Harper?

And can you imagine how much better Canada would be if we had some good leaders,perhaps from the NDP!

WWWTT

Which one, the 19 year old college student or the 27 year old restaurant manager who doesn't speak French?

[WWWTT]

Which one, the 19 year old college student or the 27 year old restaurant manager who doesn't speak French?

Close you eyes and pick one,because either one would be an improvement over Harper!Or any other liberal/conservative PM Canada has had!

WWWTT

[Evening Star]

Ruth-Ellen Brosseau has spoken in French in the Commons and to her constituents.

[cybercoma]

Ruth-Ellen Brosseau has spoken in French in the Commons and to her constituents.

She also appeared on a French talk-show on New Years Eve, if I'm not mistaken. Her father is also fluently bilingual with English as his second language. Moreover, she has committed herself to working hard for her constituents and proving herself, admitting that she never expected to win. In order to show her gratitude, she has been busting her back to prove herself and really be the best MP possible. That's a hell of a lot more than I can say for many of the MPs that take their positions for granted.

[CPCFTW]

Well, since they know a hell of a lot more about history and politics than you, I'm pretty sure most people care more about what they think than what you think on this subject.

Actually for the purposes of this poll, my opinion is much more important. I have 1 vote out of 50ish in this poll, those experts have none. We were discussing the legitimacy of the poll results. Please try to keep up or don't bother participating in the discussion.

Edited January 4, 2012 by CPCFTW