First Nations peoples are being eradicated by

[Guest Peeves]

being supported in living conditions that contribute to their deaths from drugs, boredom, suicide and abuse.

Obviously reserve life won't provide living conditions that would be acceptable to most others.

Obviously the 'old way' is an anachronism, something long gone as have many other traditions of other peoples.

There are VERY few that can hunt to live as a native of perhaps 2-300 years ago.

There is no pride in living in a 'ghetto' by choice.

I suggest that the reserve life is NOT living in the 'Old Ways"

I suggest living on a reserve where there are no access to jobs, to give meaning to adults or children is self defeating.

Our governments funding such a way of life, (death) is well past a time for change. Throwing money at reservations that are obviously not functional has proven to be a failure.

If that life is all an Indian wants, then they are drumming their own demise.

It's time they were treated to the contemporary way of life.

[olp1fan]

Don't blame the provincial or federal governments for the chiefs and leaders of the reserves pocketing millions of dollars

But yah, good luck telling the Indians to live just like the rest of us

do you want a civil war?

Edited December 12, 2011 by olp1fan

[Guest Manny]

brought up in a society that's elders were killed by genocide, in a holocaust of their own, then forced into schools run by catholic priets and nuns, so that they forget their own language, culture and the ability to live according to their old ways. Then raped, and the perpetrators allowed to get away with it. Given rewards of recognition as good citizens of the country, even. Then land treaties dishonoured, when it was economically advantagous for Oh Canada to take what it wants.

Lets see how many of you can "man up" and recover from something like that!

None of you could, you arm chair master baiters.

But despite that, the question of a meaningful solution for helping natives come out of what has been done to them eludes us. Clearly, throwing money into it without oversight is just as useless as doing nothing at all.

[Moonlight Graham]

It's time they were treated to the contemporary way of life.

Good luck with that.

[Guest Peeves]

brought up in a society that's elders were killed by genocide, in a holocaust of their own, then forced into schools run by catholic priets and nuns, so that they forget their own language, culture and the ability to live according to their old ways. Then raped, and the perpetrators allowed to get away with it. Given rewards of recognition as good citizens of the country, even. Then land treaties dishonoured, when it was economically advantagous for Oh Canada to take what it wants.

Lets see how many of you can "man up" and recover from something like that!

None of you could, you arm chair master baiters.

But despite that, the question of a meaningful solution for helping natives come out of what has been done to them eludes us. Clearly, throwing money into it without oversight is just as useless as doing nothing at all.

Accepting all that doesn't resolve the circumstances or plight of natives trying to live in conditions

unfit for human habitation, conditions that are wide spread and generational in degree.

The 'old ways' are gone. No buffalo hunts, no rain dance or beating of drums will change that. Nor will money.

Allowing anachronistic faux customs in todays world will simply result in more drug abuse, suicide and squalor.

Time to end it.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Accepting all that doesn't resolve the circumstances or plight of natives trying to live in conditions

unfit for human habitation, conditions that are wide spread and generational in degree.

The 'old ways' are gone. No buffalo hunts, no rain dance or beating of drums will change that. Nor will money.

Allowing anachronistic faux customs in todays world will simply result in more drug abuse, suicide and squalor.

Time to end it.

It certainly is time to end it. Never been a better time with all the problems we are just now becoming aware of. WE do need to act, immediately. I will suggest that the First Nations sit down with the Government of Canada, and not leave the table till they get the job done. No breaks, no chance to miss an opportunity for resolution until the deed is done. WE are going on two centuries of this nonsense, time enough to resolve any issue that may have arisen. Both sets of politicians are cowards and fools, allowing themselves to prosper while those around them suffer. All involved should be held to account by public demand.

MAYBE IT IS TIME TO ACT !

[charter.rights]

It certainly is time to end it. Never been a better time with all the problems we are just now becoming aware of. WE do need to act, immediately. I will suggest that the First Nations sit down with the Government of Canada, and not leave the table till they get the job done. No breaks, no chance to miss an opportunity for resolution until the deed is done. WE are going on two centuries of this nonsense, time enough to resolve any issue that may have arisen. Both sets of politicians are cowards and fools, allowing themselves to prosper while those around them suffer. All involved should be held to account by public demand.

MAYBE IT IS TIME TO ACT !

Not that I doubt your sincerity, but does your idea of "settling it" include the full $2 trillion trust and the additional $75 trillion for the lands claim settlement of Ontario? Or how about the sharing of all the resources, including royalties and stakes in the companies?

[cybercoma]

Allowing anachronistic faux customs in todays world will simply result in more drug abuse, suicide and squalor.

Time to end it.

So their customs are not only fake and outdated, but it's their customs that are cuasing drug abuse, suicide and squalor?

[Battletoads]

Not that I doubt your sincerity, but does your idea of "settling it" include the full $2 trillion trust and the additional $75 trillion for the lands claim settlement of Ontario? Or how about the sharing of all the resources, including royalties and stakes in the companies?

Oh good old racism, 'give us 77 trillion dollars because we have special blood'

[cybercoma]

Oh good old racism, 'give us 77 trillion dollars because we have special blood'

Is that what you think it's about? Ever read a history book that covers anything before 1867?

[charter.rights]

Oh good old racism, 'give us 77 trillion dollars because we have special blood'

The $77 trillion is the approximate value of Southern Ontario using the method devised by the Supreme Court of Canada in determining fair value.

Southern Ontario south of the Ottawa River is Six Nations territory and they have never surrendered it.

Although their current lawsuit against the government over the Haldimand Tract has a value of about $14 trillion.

The point is that if JF is really interest in settling the issues, these are a couple of them. Pay the First Nations what we owe to their trust, and settle all lands claims...oops! That would bankrupt Canada....really....

Edited December 13, 2011 by charter.rights

[grogy]

Lol, come and get it.

[Battletoads]

The $77 trillion is the approximate value of Southern Ontario using the method devised by the Supreme Court of Canada in determining fair value.

I'd love to see someone try to assert that claim. Please, poison the well.

Southern Ontario south of the Ottawa River is Six Nations territory and they have never surrendered it.

The idea that it ever belonged to them is an invention, to say the least.

[charter.rights]

Its the consequence of 200 years of ignoring our agreements and treaties.

While it would be impossible to settle the full amount in cash, perpetual care agreements with the First Nations might be a practical way for us to pay off our debt and obligations.

[charter.rights]

I'd love to see someone try to assert that claim. Please, poison the well.

The idea that it ever belonged to them is an invention, to say the least.

Nope.

Mitchell Map 1757.

Jeffreys Map 1776 show their territorial possession and the Royal Proclamation 1763 cast it in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Once the Haldimand claim is out of the way ($14 trillion) Ontario will be next.

Nice thing about the British was they were immaculate record keepers - even keeping personal notes that are now in the archives that show that Indian Agents and negotiators were trying to swindle the Natives during treaty negotiations.

Edited December 13, 2011 by charter.rights

[cybercoma]

Let's not forget that our government serves the Queen, who last year recognized the First Nations' unique relationship with her:

The Queen presented a set of eight silver hand bells engraved “The Silver Chain of Friendship 1710-2010” to representatives from two Chapels Royal of the Mohawk, located on two First Nations territories in Ontario.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/queenelizabethii/article/831819--crowd-thrilled-by-queen-s-visit-to-st-james-cathedral

the Queen honoured a relationship that pre-dates the existence of Canada by more than 150 years.

http://activehistory.ca/2010/07/the-queen-among-the-mohawks/

[Battletoads]

Its the consequence of 200 years of ignoring our agreements and treaties.

While it would be impossible to settle the full amount in cash, perpetual care agreements with the First Nations might be a practical way for us to pay off our debt and obligations.

It would be much more practical to realize that giving someone money, solely based on race, is a stupid idea. Most of us in the civilized world realized this decades ago, maybe it's time you got on-board.

[Battletoads]

Nope.

Mitchell Map 1757.

Jeffreys Map 1776 show their territorial possession and the Royal Proclamation 1763 cast it in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Once the Haldimand claim is out of the way ($14 trillion) Ontario will be next.

Nice thing about the British was they were immaculate record keepers - even keeping personal notes that are now in the archives that show that Indian Agents and negotiators were trying to swindle the Natives during treaty negotiations.

You say the treaties, between the now defunct British Crown and whatever 'native' group, are legally binding in one sentence, and negotiated in bad faith in the next. It's pretty clear you just want to cherry pick the details that support your narrow viewpoint.

[charter.rights]

Let's not forget that our government serves the Queen, who last year recognized the First Nations' unique relationship with her:

I was honoured to have been part of the committee that arranged the presentation by the Queen. Somewhere in the archives of this forum there is a posting by me in the fall of 2009 hinting at it.

Oh yes...and the "two representatives" were the elected Chiefs of Six Nations and The Mohawks of the Bay of Quinte, respectively. The presentation was political, not religious. And I heard from someone who is close to the PMO that Harper got a few elbows and was told by the Queen to play nice with the Mohawks. Less than 3 months later Harper announced 3 initiatives that benefited First Nations. No coincidence....

Edited December 13, 2011 by charter.rights

[cybercoma]

It would be much more practical to realize that giving someone money, solely based on race, is a stupid idea. Most of us in the civilized world realized this decades ago, maybe it's time you got on-board.

It's not based on race.

[olp1fan]

I have a proposal for the natives, quit yer complaining, grow a set and work for your money like the rest of us Canadians .. we hardly give a damn that you had this land 400 years a go

Edited December 13, 2011 by olp1fan

[Guest Manny]

I have a proposal for the natives, quit yer complaining, grow a set and work for your money like the rest of us Canadians .. we hardly give a damn that you had this land 400 years a go

Wow, you never learned that attitude from listening to Our Lady Peace.

[cybercoma]

I have a proposal for the natives, quit yer complaining, grow a set and work for your money like the rest of us Canadians .. we hardly give a damn that you had this land 400 years a go

You might not give a damn, but they do. They also have the rule of law behind them. Edited December 13, 2011 by cybercoma

[olp1fan]

Wow, you never learned that attitude from listening to Our Lady Peace.

Raine Maida is the biggest tree hugger liberal in the country .. I don't like OLP because of their political views

I love the music

[olp1fan]

You might not give a damn, but they do. They also have the rule of law behind them.

What are they gonna do? kill the rest of us Canadians? I'd like to see them try

They're not getting squat