Thread for All the Negative Things the Liberals Did as Government

[fellowtraveller]

Wait a minute... you support the CPC making cuts and still going into debt, but when the Liberals make cuts and balance the budget that's a bad thing?

edit: I think I may have you confused for another poster.

No, I dislike the pretence/fiction that the Liberals exercised fiscal responsibility through program review and made decisions to reduce the deficit by acting responsibly. That didn't happen. For much of their savings, they simply downloaded costs to the provinces.

The Tories could cut some of the existing deficit simply by chopping the bloated civil service they themselves created and by minor program cuts. But that is not enough, they need to examine every penny and act accordingly.

Obviously we are coming into some lean times globally and your suggestion that the Tories will be making cuts and still going into debt is probably accurate. Doing nothing will be worse.

[olp1fan]

Give it up AW.. how many troops did US put in Iraq and how many did Canada put?

[eyeball]

I've spent years criticizing my government for what I perceive as its wrongs regarding Iraq, only to hear from so many Canadians how terrible my country is as they dismiss their country's wrongs when I bring it up - when I try to have a two sided discussion about it. "It's not as bad," they say - as they polish their hypocritical halo. Of course it is. The only difference is they are hiding behind the U.S. - getting some sort of self-satisfaction because the are 'not as bad' - as Canada (Shhhhh!) gives it's all.

Well, for what it's worth AW, I think we're way worse than you. Why? Because we've known better than to behave like your country has behaved for decades.

Now we have a PM and government that can't wait to join you. You should be proud to have such a noble country as our's on side. [sarcasm]sarcasm.gif[/sarcasm]

Now excuse me while I go puke.

Edited December 11, 2011 by eyeball

[olp1fan]

Well, for what it's worth AW, I think we're way worse than you. Why? Because we've known better than to behave like your country has behaved for decades.

Now we have a PM and government that can't wait to join you. You should be proud to have such a noble country as our's on side.

Now excuse me while I go puke.

hang on for a few more years ...canada will be sick of harpers band of criminals by that time and will be voted off the island

[Guest Derek L]

You forgot that they shut down the inquiry into this affair the moment it started to reach above the level of field officers towards DND officialdom - some of which had close ties to the party.

Exactly, both the disbandment of the CAR & EH-101 cancellation were purely (short term) politically motivated, and in both cases the need of both never went away.

The Liberals were always eager to offer up Canadian soldiers for duties abroad but loath to actually support them, especially financially. The military was starved of funding during the Chretien era despite large suprluses. So were a number of other programs.

In fairness, the Progressive Conservatives before, though talking a good game, were much the same when results were measured……….Hornet maintenance contract……the LSVW…..the retirement of the Chinooks and purchase of the Griffon…..TRUMP……The promise, then retraction on SSNs…

[Guest American Woman]

Well, for what it's worth AW, I think we're way worse than you. Why? Because we've known better than to behave like your country has behaved for decades.

Ummmm....you've known better than to behave like us? Canada is behaving like Canada.

Now we have a PM and government that can't wait to join you. You should be proud to have such a noble country as our's on side. [sarcasm]sarcasm.gif[/sarcasm]

Canada has always been right there with us, so what's this "now we have a PM and government" stuff? It was Chretien who lied to you - who said Canada was staying out of Iraq even as Canadian diplomats were in the US pledging support/planning Canada's involvement - not the PM and government you have now.

[olp1fan]

Canada has always been right there with us, so what's this "now we have a PM and government" stuff? It was Chretien who lied to you - who said Canada was staying out of Iraq even as Canadian diplomats were in the US pledging support/planning Canada's involvement - not the PM and government you have now.

Harper said he'd never negotiate with terrorists and his party even gave Jack Layton a nickname "Taliban Jack" yet wikileaks has shown us that his government indeed paid ransom to terrorists to free a few Canadians which pissed off the U,S and other countries

You can't really trust what any PM says

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/canada-paid-ransom-to-free-envoys-wikileaks-cables-show/article2178811/

But every time you bring up Iraq you're clearly trying to say Canada did just as much as the U.S did ..well they didn't

we provided a hundred or so troops among other little things for select missions ...that is A LOT different than putting thousands of troops onto Iraqi soil

Edited December 11, 2011 by olp1fan

[Guest Derek L]

Ummmm....you've known better than to behave like us? Canada is behaving like Canada.

Canada has always been right there with us, so what's this "now we have a PM and government" stuff? It was Chretien who lied to you - who said Canada was staying out of Iraq even as Canadian diplomats were in the US pledging support/planning Canada's involvement - not the PM and government you have now.

Exactly AW…..Canada’s true left and right parties, like the Republicans and Democrats, and all their inherent membership/supporters etc are namely centrist with a slight bent either way, with the more vocal extreme fringes attacking the other extreme fringe……..Most Canadians, like Americans, don’t live in fear of Commies or Robber Barons……..

Canada’s luke warm support (playing to their fringe) for the war in Iraq is attributed to a political party playing to it’s base……..If the Tories had of been in power, though being a more vocal supporter (playing to their fringe), our actual, physical support for the war would have been the same…..which is made evident by the fact, we had nothing else to send.

[Tilter]

Chreitien lied to Canadians, saying Canada was going to stay out of Iraq even as Canadian diplomats were in the U.S. discussing Canada's involvement.

Canada stayed out of Iraq----- what's your point?

[Guest American Woman]

Canada stayed out of Iraq----- what's your point?

Ummmmm... my point is that Canada didn't stay out of Iraq.

Exactly AW…..Canada’s true left and right parties, like the Republicans and Democrats, and all their inherent membership/supporters etc are namely centrist with a slight bent either way, with the more vocal extreme fringes attacking the other extreme fringe……..Most Canadians, like Americans, don’t live in fear of Commies or Robber Barons……..

Canada’s luke warm support (playing to their fringe) for the war in Iraq is attributed to a political party playing to it’s base……..If the Tories had of been in power, though being a more vocal supporter (playing to their fringe), our actual, physical support for the war would have been the same…..which is made evident by the fact, we had nothing else to send.

I agree.

Edited December 11, 2011 by American Woman

[olp1fan]

Canada stayed out of Iraq----- what's your point?

apparently fronting a hundred soldiers and a few higher ranking officers for a few select missions = canada being hypocritical

don't listen to the spin ...she also said canada helped the iraq war by taking a bigger role in afghanistan so U.S could move U.S troops into Iraq

these people really are reaching to make canada seem like it 100 % took part

[Evening Star]

No, I dislike the pretence/fiction that the Liberals exercised fiscal responsibility through program review and made decisions to reduce the deficit by acting responsibly. That didn't happen. For much of their savings, they simply downloaded costs to the provinces.

Transfers to the provinces are a major portion of federal expenditure. If the feds are going to slash spending, those are going to be cut. I'll give you that they managed to do it in such a way that provincial leaders got to take the blame for it and even well-informed people still call the LPC a 'centre-left' party.

[Evening Star]

Exactly AW…..Canada’s true left and right parties, like the Republicans and Democrats, and all their inherent membership/supporters etc are namely centrist with a slight bent either way, with the more vocal extreme fringes attacking the other extreme fringe……..Most Canadians, like Americans, don’t live in fear of Commies or Robber Barons……..

I think I can actually see more difference between Democrats and Republicans than between the LPC and CPC.

[Evening Star]

apparently fronting a hundred soldiers and a few higher ranking officers for a few select missions = canada being hypocritical

don't listen to the spin ...she also said canada helped the iraq war by taking a bigger role in afghanistan so U.S could move U.S troops into Iraq

these people really are reaching to make canada seem like it 100 % took part

Olp1fan, what does it mean for someone to participate 50% or 25% or 73% in a war? Either you're actively part of, you know, killing people for a cause or you're not part of it at all. If anything, half-assedly participating in a war - if that's what you're claiming Canada did - seems less respectable than openly and wholeheartedly engaging in it.

Edited December 11, 2011 by Evening Star

[Guest Derek L]

I think I can actually see more difference between Democrats and Republicans than between the LPC and CPC.

Like what? If you're subjective, the governing styles and policies shared by Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Ike and Kennedy etc weren’t all that different…….I’m certain, most would consider these guys as successful Presidents to some degree.

[olp1fan]

Olp1fan, what does it mean for someone to participate 50% or 25% or 73% in a war? Either you're actively part of, you know, killing people for a cause or you're not part of it at all. If anything, half-assedly participating in a war - if that's what you're claiming Canada did - seems less respectable than openly and wholeheartedly engaging in it.

I disagree

[Evening Star]

Like what? If you're subjective, the governing styles and policies shared by Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Ike and Kennedy etc weren’t all that different…….I’m certain, most would consider these guys as successful Presidents to some degree.

Well, Obama's health care policy is pretty different from Republican policy, for one thing. Clinton and Bush Jr had appreciably different policies on tax rates whereas the CPC has basically just continued trends initiated by the LPC. If you compare the different states' policies on things like abortion, gay marriage, or teaching religious dogma in public schools, there are some pretty stark differences.

I definitely think there was a big difference from Eisenhower/Kennedy-era policies on taxes and social programmes (to say nothing of LBJ!) to Reagan-era policies.

[Guest American Woman]

Olp1fan, what does it mean for someone to participate 50% or 25% or 73% in a war? Either you're actively part of, you know, killing people for a cause or you're not part of it at all. If anything, half-assedly participating in a war - if that's what you're claiming Canada did - seems less respectable than openly and wholeheartedly engaging in it.

I think participating as Chretien was lying about it, pretending to take the moral high road, is what's less respectable. He claims 'standing up to U.S. pressure and keeping Canada out of Iraq' as his crowning glory, yet it's a lie.

But yes, Canada was fully involved as it was actively involved, and I believe - as others have confirmed - that Canada did a much as it was able to do at the time.

[Evening Star]

I think participating as Chretien was lying about it, pretending to take the moral high road, is what's less respectable.

Totally.

[grogy]

I disagree

We were there, Chretien lied, that is the point.

He also lied about getting rid of the gst, his government stole money from EI to balance the budget as well. Of course the liberals let the military rot, but liberals always do, it gives them something to complain about when the conservatives try to repair the damage. Spent 300 million on a g8 summit in Kananaskis, no doubt every penny was needed for a liberal summit, at a resort, in the middle of nowhere Alberta. How about those wonderful submarines we bought that cost the lives of sailors.

Funny thing is i can at least respect Chretien for being tough, he took shit from no one, yes he was a liar and leader of a scandal plagued government, but he still ruled his party his way. He was just a politician, and while i didnt vote for him, i didn't hate him, or think he was destroying the country, or some other drivel so common to comments made about harper.

[Evening Star]

I kind of hated him, actually, which might disprove Philosopher King's thesis.

[Newfoundlander]

It's also ridiculous when a party gets to form a minority government with less votes than the second place party.

What?

[eyeball]

Ummmm....you've known better than to behave like us? Canada is behaving like Canada.

Yes, I have at least. I truly mean it when I say I'm an Earthling first and foremost and a Canadian in name only. Feel free to slag Canada all you want, you won't get much argument from me.

Canada has always been right there with us, so what's this "now we have a PM and government" stuff?

It was Chretien who lied to you - who said Canada was staying out of Iraq even as Canadian diplomats were in the US pledging support/planning Canada's involvement - not the PM and government you have now.

Yes, I have no doubt now Chretien was a mealy-mouthed two-faced liar about our country's complicity in the west's diddling in the region. 9/11 was a wake up call for many Canadians too you know. Harper is as unabashed about showing open support as Chretien was for masking it.

For me it's like deja vu all over again. I've seen this sort of behaviour on the fisheries file where one party screwed us over for years when they were in power and the next didn't miss a beat when they were in.

[eyeball]

apparently fronting a hundred soldiers and a few higher ranking officers for a few select missions = canada being hypocritical

That's right. In for a penny in for a pound.

don't listen to the spin ...she also said canada helped the iraq war by taking a bigger role in afghanistan so U.S could move U.S troops into Iraq

these people really are reaching to make canada seem like it 100 % took part

Our military support has always been the least of what we offered. What was really sought of Canada was the moral shine our imagined halo would bring to the effort.

I don't think it had the intended effect.

[Guest American Woman]

Yes, I have at least. I truly mean it when I say I'm an Earthling first and foremost and a Canadian in name only. Feel free to slag Canada all you want, you won't get much argument from me.

"Slang" Canada?? So to say it like it is, is to "slang Canada" in your mind?? Good Lord. Methinks your "Earthling first and foremost and a Canadian in name only" is questionable. I'm simply saying it like it is. You conclude Canada's behavior is due to "acting like the U.S." while it's due to Canada acting like Canada. So perhaps, being the "Earthling" that you are, you best learn to know better than to behave like Canada, too. And no, that's not a "slang" towards Canada - it's saying it the way it is.

Yes, I have no doubt now Chretien was a mealy-mouthed two-faced liar about our country's complicity in the west's diddling in the region. 9/11 was a wake up call for many Canadians too you know. Harper is as unabashed about showing open support as Chretien was for masking it.

And both are acting in Canada's best interest - ie: Acting like Canada.