Cons spied on Canadian communities years before G20

[g_bambino]

The biggest charge they could get out of the G20 spying sting was counseling mischief counseling to obstruct police

Yes. The question is: what proof is that of your claim that the violent rampages of the G20 weekend were the work of the police? Or your claim that the G20 was a giant, near-billion dollar trap? Or that the infiltrations were a means for Harper to "change" Canada?

You're throwing out accusations and allegations all over the place and, when asked for some kind of validation, just make even more of a mess by tossing around both irrelevant facts and total fabrications.

[g_bambino]

a "real" free democratic society not the convoluted mockery residing somewhere in the space between your ears.

Yes. Hence I said we have a free and democratic society; not the cockamamie conception of a "real" democracy that you dreamt up and think we should have.

really? where is the info on this?

Here:

Held on the eve of the main day of protests, this meeting would become central to the Crown’s case against the 17 people charged with conspiracy. One undercover officer recorded it, with authorization from provincial court Justice Joseph Kenkel.

[olp1fan]

Yes. The question is: what proof is that of your claim that the violent rampages of the G20 weekend were the work of the police? Or your claim that the G20 was a giant, near-billion dollar trap? Or that the infiltrations were a means for Harper to "change" Canada?

Watch the riot police let a few plain clothed people through their line at 2:35 into the video and before that at 2:00 minutes in with the plain clothes police with weapons

As well as the Cops leaving abandoned police cars in the street for rioters to burn (which is what they wanted)

The Black Bloc was also spotted taking off their black clothes and then leaving after inciting a riot

Edited November 23, 2011 by olp1fan

[g_bambino]

Watch the riot police let a few plain clothed people through their line at 2:35 into the video

As well as the Cops leaving abandoned police cars in the street for rioters to burn (which is what they wanted)

The Black Bloc was also spotted taking off their black clothes and then leaving after inciting a riot

Those are suppositions, not proof.

[olp1fan]

Those are suppositions, not proof.

Its proof enough...we know they do these kinds of things...the Quebec police force even admitted to it so there is history in Canada of Police going under cover as the Black Bloc to incite riots

[g_bambino]

Its proof enough...we know they do these kinds of things...the Quebec police force even admitted to it so there is history in Canada of Police going under cover as the Black Bloc to incite riots

It's a known fact that police infiltrate threatening groups and play along in order to do so. There's no indication, however, in that video or otherwise, that they lead the groups into riots or confrontation. Their job is to gather information about those who are leading and their conspirators, in order to lay the appropriate charges that will then be heard in a court of law.

[olp1fan]

It's a known fact that police infiltrate threatening groups and play along in order to do so. There's no indication, however, in that video or otherwise, that they lead the groups into riots or confrontation. Their job is to gather information about those who are leading and their conspirators, in order to lay the appropriate charges that will then be heard in a court of law.

You can defend the cons and the cops all you want but the people are angry about this

[grogy]

You can defend the cons and the cops all you want but the people are angry about this

O no doubt, but most of those people were living in a park until this morning, so who cares what they, and you, think (as if).

[olp1fan]

O no doubt, but most of those people were living in a park until this morning, so who cares what they, and you, think (as if).

Most? I doubt even a thousand people are part of that in Canada

[g_bambino]

You can defend the cons and the cops all you want but the people are angry about this

I haven't defended either from anything except false accusation. Show me something substantiated (like the police being in the wrong to assert the Public Works Protection Act had force outside the secure zone fence) and I'll add my condemnations to yours. People too often get angry about stuff they simply made up.

[c/e]

Edited November 23, 2011 by g_bambino

[cybercoma]

Here is what Bills billion dollars was spent doing

arrested for blowing bubbles!

They both handled themselves stupidly. That protester should not have been blowing bubbles into that cop's face. If she was blowing them into the air over the cops that would be one thing, but she was deliberately blowing them into the face of that cop. Sorry, but that's actually assault in Canada. There was a trial that I was at where someone was being sentenced because she threw a drink in a security guard's face. She was convicted of assault.

On the other hand, the cop handled himself completely inappropriately. He was obviously just looking for a fight. He could have asked her politely to stop blowing bubbles in the officer's face. Instead he wanted to be menacing and generally act like he was some sort of tough guy. Although, I suppose it's hardly surprising when there's a rampant steroid abuse problem in police departments all over Canada.

They were both in the wrong.

[Wild Bill]

On the other hand, the cop handled himself completely inappropriately. He was obviously just looking for a fight. He could have asked her politely to stop blowing bubbles in the officer's face. Instead he wanted to be menacing and generally act like he was some sort of tough guy. Although, I suppose it's hardly surprising when there's a rampant steroid abuse problem in police departments all over Canada.

They were both in the wrong.

It's always been that way with cops, CC! They aren't hired for intelligence and a university education. It's more important that they are physically powerful and will follow orders.

After all, if they were well educated as well as exceptionally physically fit they would be working for the Mossad, or be special forces officers in the military.

I'm not saying that cops are stupid! Just that smarts are not the main hiring qualification. In fact, if a candidate is TOO smart he will likely be rejected! That happened to my own brother. From his size and exceptional physique everyone thought he was a shoe-in. After he was rejected with no real explanation some friends on the inside found out the real reason for us.

So if a cop is really smart he will not flaunt it and just keep his head low long enough to acquire sufficient seniority that he doesn't have to worry about his pension.

Some of my relatives wear the blue and have told me horror stories about some of their compadres! The public is never told. These guys just get a quick transfer to Moosonee! I've been told that there is more commonality than difference between many cops and the perps they handle.

[guyser]

Some of my relatives wear the blue and have told me horror stories about some of their compadres! The public is never told.

And therein lies the problem with all police forces across this continent.

Cops are not respected anymore because they have refused to out , or rat, on the ones who bring them the biggest grief. That disrespects us, the people, and enough was enough a long time ago.Even simple interactions with cops is a struggle these days.

We know for a fact that the the Toronto Police chief's own Constable son was a diabolical cheat, thief and all 'round dispicable prick. What did he get? Not much

We also know with quite certainty, in the advent of camera's being everywhere now, that past discretions by the police were dismissed as implausible were in all likelihood not implausible but quite true.

The simple truth is police would be far ahead on the respect curve if they would toss the ones who cause them grief, throw the book at the criminal ones and clean up the force.

As it is , even though I know many of them are fine people on their own, they are treated by me as nothing more than a service I call on when needed, and I want them to do their job and leave me alone.

I have no respect for the entire police force as a whole, and even though I have to interact with them on the occassional basis (for work) I do so with only the least amount of grace I can muster.

[cybercoma]

"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" -Iuvenalis

[WWWTT]

It's always been that way with cops, CC! They aren't hired for intelligence and a university education. It's more important that they are physically powerful and will follow orders.

After all, if they were well educated as well as exceptionally physically fit they would be working for the Mossad, or be special forces officers in the military.

I'm not saying that cops are stupid! Just that smarts are not the main hiring qualification. In fact, if a candidate is TOO smart he will likely be rejected! That happened to my own brother.

Man thats a load!

Do you know what an officer is paid?

If this is only what is required of an officer then the pay should reflect this.

WWWTT

[jacee]

I watched the full coverage on CITYTV, with livestream and multiple screen replays, trying to figure out the events. I was involved in some pre-G20 rallies but not the main event.

I think the powers-that-be were preparing - via police and the jail constructed to hold over 1000 people - for full scale rioting possibly initiated by Black Bloc'rs. Instead, the Black Bloc implemented a highly organized and targeted high-speed action against pre-determined institutions and businesses, for the most part running well ahead of police and any potential opportunistic rioters and looters. The Black Bloc'rsacted with such speed and precision that police were left stupified and humiliated with nothing to do but protect establishments from opportunistic looting. There was little of that, and certainly no 'full scale rioting, but the humiliation of police took a toll on them and instead of the crowd or protesters 'running riot', the police lost all control, lost all professionalism and 'ran riot' themselves, removing ID badges, coralling, detaining and sometimes brutally assaulting innocent protesters, bystanders and media indiscriminately. While coralled on the street in the rain for hours, wrinkling one's nose with a latent sneeze would get you dragged out of the group, assaulted and thrown in the cold Eastern Ave cages soaking wet, with minimal food and water, no medical attention, enduring constant berating and terrorizing by police/guards. Twenty-four hour detention with no charges is legal for any whiff of suspicion of possible intent to breach the peace - eg by wrinkling one's nose ... or sighing ... or flipping one's hair out of one's eyes ... talking ... or NOTHING AT ALL except what cops make up!

The stunning thing about the surveillance and infiltration intelligence operation leading up to the G20 - and I would add harassment and intimidation - is that they apparently had access to the 'inner circle', but still failed to stop or intervene in any way at all in the Black Bloc tactics. In fact, it was reported by the MSM that units of riot-garbed police hid behind a building WATCHING Black Bloc'rs activities and doing nothing ... waiting for a generalized riot perhaps? Who knows. What we do know is that the police/security operations of the G20 were very unprofessional, out of control and not effective in any way at all. I don't know what game the 'Security Committee' (answering to Harper) was playing ... but clearly they 'lost' and proved themselves to be very poor losers too.

Harper wanted a thousand people in jail ... and he got it ... mostly illegally and with fallout for police and governments: The class action suits - for damage$ - are in process for arrestees, have yet to be heard. Following that, calls for a public inquiry will become louder and louder and Harper will have to answer.

I can still see in my mind Mike Harris sweating and stammering on the stand at the Ipperwash Inquiry, and I can envision Harper in the same position.

Harper, CSIS and the RCMP have a lot to answer for, and the line of authority over the Toronto Police has to be clarified: 100 officers do not 'spontaneously' remove their ID without involvement of those higher up in the command.

[jacee]

It's a known fact that police infiltrate threatening groups and play along in order to do so. There's no indication, however, in that video or otherwise, that they lead the groups into riots or confrontation.

You are poorly informed: The Surete de Quebec did exactly that at the 2007 Montebello Summit, holding rocks in their hands and trying to provoke protesters into violence, while the riot squad ignored them. They were 'outed' by a union leader, and police then quickly pulled them behind the police line. They all wore police issue boots, and the SQ later acknowledged that they were police officers.

Police provocateurs are a constant concern for all social justice movements and actions in Canada, and the 'game' they play is called 'entrapment'.

Edited November 24, 2011 by jacee

[g_bambino]

Harper wanted a thousand people in jail...

Proof, please.

[g_bambino]

The Surete de Quebec did exactly that at the 2007 Montebello Summit, holding rocks in their hands and trying to provoke protesters into violence...

I believe I just said that it's a well known fact police infiltrate agitating and/or dangerous groups and play along in order to maintain their cover (how ineffective it would be to join an anarchist group's protest and not scream and threaten the intended target, like everyone else!). Thus, no evidence the intimidation was initiated by the undercover police (as though the nice anarchists put on their black gloves and covered their faces with bandanas to go and talk politely with their opponents, until those three cops joined in, that is).

[William Ashley]

I believe I just said that it's a well known fact police infiltrate agitating and/or dangerous groups and play along in order to maintain their cover (how ineffective it would be to join an anarchist group's protest and not scream and threaten the intended target, like everyone else!). Thus, no evidence the intimidation was initiated by the undercover police (as though the nice anarchists put on their black gloves and covered their faces with bandanas to go and talk politely with their opponents, until those three cops joined in, that is).

It is a big world and few can see beyond the horizon, learn.

Edited November 24, 2011 by William Ashley

[g_bambino]

It is a big world and few can see beyond the horizon, learn.

If you'd be so kind as to rephrase that using proper English, it would be appreciated. Cheers.

[grogy]

It is a big world and few can see beyond the horizon, learn.

Do you moonlight as a tarot reader for the circus or is it your full time job?

[jacee]

Proof, please.

They built it.

Think they're going to leave it empty?

[Tilter]

so much wasted money only to charge 6 people along with falsely arresting 1000+ others

and you see nothing wrong about this?

good god man

Falsely arresting?

BS.

I guess you were participating in the riot if you think that way.

[g_bambino]

They built it.

Who is "they"? Harper is an individual, as far as I knew. And an individual who has no power over Toronto police.