Long-gun registry to be shot down Thursday

[Guest Derek L]

How many people have used a car to kill?

Does it mater? Are there calls to ban cars? I’m sure we can agree, after a government issued licence, there is some amount of risk in society driving cars no?

[yarg]

How many people have used a car to kill?

Who cares, tell us again how many murders the registry prevented.

[guyser]

I'm a little too busy to google it right now, but many. If you include suicides, very meny.

Well, when you arenbt busy....

Or I could just tell you, very few including suicide, which isnt a kill either.

[guyser]

Does it mater?

I do not know, you brought the analogy into play.

[guyser]

Who cares, tell us again how many murders the registry prevented.

I suppose Derek L cares.

[Battletoads]

Does it mater? Are there calls to ban cars? I’m sure we can agree, after a government issued licence, there is some amount of risk in society driving cars no?

Cars are useful, guns on the other hand are little more than toys to most gun advocates.

[Guest Derek L]

I do not know, you brought the analogy into play.

Sure it does……if you want to ban or limit legal guns to prevent deaths shouldn’t you also ban cars? How many deaths/injures are caused by drunk driving? Speeding? Using a cell phone well driving?

[Guest Derek L]

Cars are useful, guns on the other hand are little more than toys to most gun advocates.

I suppose you’ve never been hunting or on a farm/ranch……….many First nations communities also rely on hunting for sustenance.

But how useful is an SUV? Or tuned sports cars? Street legal racing bikes?

[Battletoads]

But how useful is an SUV? Or tuned sports cars? Street legal racing bikes?

To the average Canadian? A hell of a lot more useful than a gun.

[Guest Derek L]

To the average Canadian? A hell of a lot more useful than a gun.

How many Canadian households have guns as opposed to SUVs/Sports cars/Racing bikes?

To find the number of gun owners, use the firearms registry........

[Handsome Rob]

That said, I do agree with stringent licensing requirements as well as regulations regarding the size of clips that are allowed. I also agree with the regulations regarding handguns and automatic weapons, even if I don't agree with registration of them.

RE: Magazine capacity. On what basis? What purpose does it serve?

It's essentially un-enforcable, hi-capacity mags are everywhere anyway, just pinned to comply with regulations. If somebody wanted to commit misdeeds, ignoring that regulation would take less effort than reading it in the first place.

[Smallc]

RE: Magazine capacity. On what basis? What purpose does it serve?

Restricting the amount of shots that potential mass murderer can take at once. It's quite simple.

[bush_cheney2004]

[Handsome Rob]

Restricting the amount of shots that potential mass murderer can take at once. It's quite simple.

That's like saying the gun registry prevents the person from owning guns in the first place. It still counts on the person acting in good faith.

Even if Hi-cap mags didn't exist, or weren't importable, reloading is easy enough.

[Smallc]

Even if Hi-cap mags didn't exist, or weren't importable, reloading is easy enough.

Reloading takes a second. That's enough time for someone close by, still alive, to do something. This isn't at all like the registry. Under what you're saying here, people should be able to own any weapons that they want to. That's rather unacceptable.

[Handsome Rob]

Reloading takes a second. That's enough time for someone close by, still alive, to do something. This isn't at all like the registry. Under what you're saying here, people should be able to own any weapons that they want to. That's rather unacceptable.

I quite agree, but a mag capacity limit does nothing to prevent death.

It's like saying a speed limit prevents fatal collisions because of lesser energy. Works great unless you speed, nothing to prevent you from doing it.

If you're committing murder I'm fairly certain a citation and confiscation for a minor infraction such as this isn't really going to concern you.

[Smallc]

I quite agree, but a mag capacity limit does nothing to prevent death.

I disagree.

If you're committing murder I'm fairly certain a citation and confiscation for a minor infraction such as this isn't really going to concern you.

No, but the laws at least make it harder to actually get a high capacity magazine. Generally, it isn't organized criminals that go on a shooting rampage of innocent people.

[Handsome Rob]

No, but the laws at least make it harder to actually get a high capacity magazine. Generally, it isn't organized criminals that go on a shooting rampage of innocent people.

No, it doesn't. It says they can't be used in the firearm in their designed capacity, they're pinned to only accept the legal amount of ammunition.

I've got a half dozen 30 round M-305 mags, pinned at 5. Even more 10 round+ 9mm mags. CBSA does not care, for their purposes a pin through the body is plenty sufficient. I do this because I'm a law abiding citizen, but it's a major PITA for things like IPSC. The law states:

(4) A cartridge magazine described in subsection (1) that has been altered or re-manufactured so that it is not capable of containing more than five or ten cartridges, as the case may be, of the type for which it was originally designed is not a prohibited device as prescribed by that subsection if the modification to the magazine cannot be easily removed and the magazine cannot be easily further altered so that it is so capable of containing more than five or ten cartridges, as the case may be.

(5) For the purposes of subsection (4), altering or re-manufacturing a cartridge magazine includes

(a) the indentation of its casing by forging, casting, swaging or impressing;

( in the case of a cartridge magazine with a steel or aluminum casing, the insertion and attachment of a plug, sleeve, rod, pin, flange or similar device, made of steel or aluminum, as the case may be, or of a similar material, to the inner surface of its casing by welding, brazing or any other similar method; or

© in the case of a cartridge magazine with a casing made of a material other than steel or aluminum, the attachment of a plug, sleeve, rod, pin, flange or similar device, made of steel or of a material similar to that of the magazine casing, to the inner surface of its casing by welding, brazing or any other similar method or by applying a permanent adhesive substance, such as a cement or an epoxy or other glue.

Tin snips puts an end to that. Getting HiCap mags is easier than finding 5.56 ammo.

[Smallc]

Then the law should be tougher.

[Handsome Rob]

Then the law should be tougher.

It's like the bike helmet law. How do you police it? There are thousands of violations, and the cops have better things to do, by the time it gets invoked its too late and a school massacre has happened.

Gun control resources need to be put into things like:

-General anti-crime provisions. Education, socioeconomic improvement. Obvious answer.

-Firearms act says a non restricted rifle in a plastic case with a pad lock under your couch is proper storage. It's not! Even moving beyond the obvious security and theft, the greater the barrier, the less likely it is to be used. A crappy-tire (un)safe should be the minimum, condition of issuance for a PAL.

-Acquiring a PAL is too easy. Private instructor in your living room, "B, C, A, B....." It should be administered by the RCMP or similar, on a government controlled level. There should be a paid professional to say, "somethings not right here, attach a note on his file and do some digging." Instead it's, "He paid, answered all the questions, here's the signature."

Lot's of examples like that, Canada's gun laws seem to be built on 'feel good' rather than 'do good.' Guns need to be treated with respect, not fear.

[Smallc]

-Acquiring a PAL is too easy. Private instructor in your living room, "B, C, A, B....." It should be administered by the RCMP or similar, on a government controlled level. There should be a paid professional to say, "somethings not right here, attach a note on his file and do some digging." Instead it's, "He paid, answered all the questions, here's the signature."

You do realize that behind the scenes, it's far more rigorous than that, right? Anyway, restricting the sale of clips that can fire over a certain number of shots is something that I definitely support. If you don't, that's fine, but I've heard of at least one instance before where it would have made a difference.

[yarg]

You do realize that behind the scenes, it's far more rigorous than that, right? Anyway, restricting the sale of clips that can fire over a certain number of shots is something that I definitely support. If you don't, that's fine, but I've heard of at least one instance before where it would have made a difference.

Im ok with keeping magazine capacity down, but the reality is that reloading from multiple magazines isn't difficult, how many shots were fired at dawson college? 60.. This ocurred after the capacities were reduced, it simply doesn't work. There are rules against making bombs too, but it is still exceedingly easy to do and none of the required materials are regulated, you simpy can't legistlate sanity. Sure, reduced magazine capacities might possibly maybe give someone a chance at escaping, but then limiting all cars to 60km/hr would CERTAINLY reduce road fatalities, but no one is asking for that..life is life, we take risks everyday. If some one is driving too fast and runs you down that is just as illegal as being shot, though being shot is a hell of a lot less likely.

Edited October 21, 2011 by yarg

[Smallc]

You're right, in most cases, it wouldn't make a difference, but, there are cases where when someone went to reload, the people around jumped on them.

[Guest Derek L]

You do realize that behind the scenes, it's far more rigorous than that, right? Anyway, restricting the sale of clips that can fire over a certain number of shots is something that I definitely support. If you don't, that's fine, but I've heard of at least one instance before where it would have made a difference.

Again rules and regulations for detachable magazines in Canada make zero sense……….As I’ve stated prior, I own several types of rifles that all can take various size magazines…….My Ruger rifles (semi auto) are only allowed 5 round mags……I own several 20 and 30 round mags for each, pinned at 5 that are perfectly legal but what stands between a legal mag and a illegal 30 round mag is a pop-rivet and a pair of pliers…….Then I own a Remington 760 pump rifle……It’s about 41 years old….though when used for hunting I’m restricted to mag size, I can and do own legal 10 round mags……..To say nothing about the rules on rimfire rifles……..Again, I’ve father & son SR22s…….both with perfectly legal 50 round drums………They make zero sense these laws

Here's a newer version of my pump rifle, perfectly legal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL-n7Y0SUEw

And an SR22:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UdcBaYqeww

[Battletoads]

How many Canadian households have guns as opposed to SUVs/Sports cars/Racing bikes?

To find the number of gun owners, use the firearms registry........

I don't see what this has to do with anything. One Canadian could own a gun, or thirty million could, it wouldn't make any difference to the usefulness of the gun to the average Canadian.