Long-gun registry to be shot down Thursday

[huh]

Should we be trying to do anything whatsoever to deal with the possibility you might suffer a mental illness and do something awful with your gun that's out of your ability to control?

Assuming you survive would you like us to treat you humanely in a hospital or put you in a cell with Bubba and hope that he repeatedly ass-rapes you?

Maybe you'd prefer we just dump you on an ice floe.

Think about it in this light, would you want someone like Tilter involved in the process that decides your fate?

When was the last time you had anything intelligent to say on this subject? You have obviously run out of reasonable thoughts so why don't you just move along. If you don't want to be harmed while entering my home uninvited, don't enter my home, that is a simple rule, unfortunately in Canada because too many people sympathize with those who might do you harm, it isn't that cut and dried. No, I don't think you should just kill a guy for breaking in, but there is a very fine line between being a thief or a danger, it should not be up to the victim to assume that risk, that should be the criminals risk to assume. If that means that a criminal gets shot in the act by a home owner who felt threatened even though no weapon is to be found, so be it, we all have choices to make in life, I chose not to be shot at by home owners while breaking and entering, others may choose differently. I choose not to be a roofer, I don't like heights, or falling from them...simple choices.

Edited January 23, 2012 by huh

[guyser]

If that means that a criminal gets shot in the act by a home owner who felt threatened even though no weapon is to be found, ...simple choices.

True

The homeowner decided to get a court date for not following the law.

It is simple, I agree.

[eyeball]

I choose not to be a roofer, I don't like heights, or falling from them...simple choices.

Can you choose not to become ill?

[Guest Derek L]

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Politics/20120130/parliament-returns-ottawa-120130/

The so-called omnibus crime bill will be passed within the first 100 sitting days, he told reporters gathered in the House of Commons Monday morning, also noting plans to for the House to pass the law eliminating the long-gun registry by mid-February.

Like a kid waiting for Christmas.........Still don’t know how they expect it to go through three readings in the Senate in two weeks…..I’m still thinking March………..I guess I’ll have to wait until the next Bud Haynes Auction in late Spring early Summer

[William Ashley]

It seems municpalities can enact gun registries..

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Fredericton+registry+even+covers+Nerf+toys/6065613/story.html

and provinces.

This just seems to be a "no need to hide your guns in the west and waste billions of dollars that provinces and municipalies in Ontario Quebec and the Maritimes will end up paying all over again.

Such an arse to be deleting the records.

Now gunowners can be hit with provincial and municipal fees.. rather than just the federal registery

GTA has upwards of 287000 “nonrestricted” weapons on file.. that is half a million dollars atleast...for the city at $2 a pop.

Also this is just the long gun registry

Data on restricted and prohibited weapons will be retained by the government.

Edited January 30, 2012 by William Ashley

[Guest Derek L]

It seems municpalities can enact gun registries..

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Fredericton+registry+even+covers+Nerf+toys/6065613/story.html

and provinces.

This just seems to be a "no need to hide your guns in the west and waste billions of dollars that provinces and municipalies in Ontario Quebec and the Maritimes will end up paying all over again.

Such an arse to be deleting the records.

Now gunowners can be hit with provincial and municipal fees.. rather than just the federal registery

GTA has upwards of 287000 “nonrestricted” weapons on file.. that is half a million dollars atleast...for the city at $2 a pop.

Also this is just the long gun registry

Data on restricted and prohibited weapons will be retained by the government.

Let the Municipalities and Provinces try and enforce it………..I assume the next “logical” step for Fredericton, now that Nerf guns need to be registered to keep the public safe, will be to place restrictions on children pointing their hands like guns……..Those with index fingers longer than 4.2 inches are only restricted, those under, Prohibited……..

[William Ashley]

The key point is that it helps cops know when to send the swat team in when responding to 911 calls.

and who might have a real gun vs. a fake gun.

also if a armed robbery occurs you have a list of suspects.

[Guest Derek L]

The key point is that it helps cops know when to send the swat team in when responding to 911 calls.

and who might have a real gun vs. a fake gun.

also if a armed robbery occurs you have a list of suspects.

So if the police are going into a suspected Meth lab, but the registry shows no guns present, they don’t require a ERT/SWAT to breach the place?

Under the registry you linked to , their’s a requirement to register toy guns.

also if a armed robbery occurs you have a list of suspects.

How's that?

[cybercoma]

Amazing how you keep trotting out those strawmen argument, Derek, even after the RCMP report has been posted, which outlines the reasons for and uses of the long-gun registry.

[Guest Derek L]

Amazing how you keep trotting out those strawmen argument, Derek, even after the RCMP report has been posted, which outlines the reasons for and uses of the long-gun registry.

And I’ll continue to disparage the RCMP’s reports, papers etc……..As I said, does law enforcement gauge their level of response based on a positive or negative hits via the registry? How did the registry benefit the RCMP in Mayerthorpe?

Even playing devil's advocate on the entire issue, I’m still puzzled why you tout the RCMP’s “expert” opinion……..This is the same bureaucracy that just prohibited a .22 gun that looks like an AK-47, but in a few weeks time, the Ruger Mini-14, the gun used in the worse shootings ever in Canada, Australia and Norway, will disappear into the ether……..

I find it funny that you put your faith into a unelected, armed, Para-military organization that is trying to implement public policy, without any form of mandate over an elected Government……That’s how one ushers in a Police State in the true sense of the word……….

Just watching the CBC and noticed another youngster died from a drug overdose…7th this year…….How many Canadians have died from a legal firearm this year? Perhaps we should start a recreational drug registry, and allow the RCMP unfettered search and seizure exemptions, all under the auspices of public safety……….

I’m more concerned with someone slipping a pill into my teenager daughters drink at a party, and her being either raped or overdosing, then a licensed firearms owner plugging her with a duck gun.

The Ruger Mini 14 in all it's glory:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbCwIWT6vYI&feature=related

[cybercoma]

I don't even know where to begin with your response and it certainly doesn't warrant going over in its entirety. If the national police (sorry... para-military organization?) force's opinion about the gun registry doens't matter, then a bunch of politicians from Alberta's opinions sure as hell aren't any better.

Edited January 31, 2012 by cybercoma

[Guest Derek L]

I don't even know where to begin with your response and it certainly doesn't warrant going over in its entirety. If the national police (sorry... para-military organization?) force's opinion about the gun registry doens't matter, then a bunch of politicians from Alberta's opinions sure as hell aren't any better.

You treat one group of unelected people’s word as infallible, but you show disdain for the elected government that writes the laws………Why is that?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/paramilitary

paramilitary [ˌpærəˈmɪlɪtərɪ -trɪ]

adj

1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) denoting or relating to a group of personnel with military structure functioning either as a civil force or in support of military forces

2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) denoting or relating to a force with military structure conducting armed operations against a ruling or occupying power

[cybercoma]

Their word is not infallible. However, completely ignoring their researched reports on the effectiveness and usefulness of the gun-registry seems to be status quo for you. The registry might have been a bloated and unwise use of taxpayers' money, but I have no idea how you can sit here and repeat ad nauseum how useless the thing is when the RCMP and Police Commissioners' Associations' have said otherwise. I don't take their word as infallible, but when the RCMP releases a well-researched report on the effectiveness of Canada's gun-control program, I'm sure as hell going to take their educated position over the reaction of gun-owners who feel unnecessarily slighted.

Edited January 31, 2012 by cybercoma

[Guest Derek L]

Their word is not infallible. However, completely ignoring their researched reports on the effectiveness and usefulness of the gun-registry seems to be status quo for you. The registry might have been a bloated and unwise use of taxpayers' money, but I have no idea how you can sit here and repeat ad nauseum how useless the thing is when the RCMP and Police Commissioners' Associations' have said otherwise. I don't take their word as infallible, but when the RCMP releases a well-researched report on the effectiveness of Canada's gun-control program, I'm sure as hell going to take their educated position over the reaction of gun-owners who feel unnecessarily slighted.

Their report was proven to be full of holes…….As was said prior, their estimates on the numbers of firearms within Canada and the percentage of owners that complied with the registry is a estimate that they never alluded to how they came to reach……….

Do you think the RCMP would be supportive of a recreational drug registry? A Government could make it law, and rely on the public’s wilful compliance and the level of drug related crimes would surely fall…..The RCMP would be allowed to enter registered users homes, without a warrant, and seize any of the registered users possessions……….Also, the RCMP could determine what drugs were “safe” and “unsafe”, thus side stepping elected politicians, judges and lawyers (And public opinion) and mail an order of compliance to the registered users requiring them to hand over said drug for destruction, without any form of compensation to the registered user……..

If people registered their recreational drugs (And let’s throw in Alcohol), they’d be less likely to beat their families, get into violent altercations with strangers and commit suicide……And since they would be required to obtain a Authorization to transport (ATT) their registered drugs from place to place, the instances of impaired driving would also decrease……..

We could even put an age limit on who can obtain registered drugs, thus underage usage would surely decline…………..

[cybercoma]

I'm sure you're well aware of how stupid your allegory is, so I'm not even going to humour it with a serious reply.

[William Ashley]

So if the police are going into a suspected Meth lab, but the registry shows no guns present, they don’t require a ERT/SWAT to breach the place?

smoke and mirrors?

fact is sometimes when people call 911 police don't know what the are going into, and knowing if there are guns at the residence, and they get a distress call from that house the stakes are much higher. If someone calls shots fired they will have a slightly better idea of whether or not there is a legal gun in the house and who owns it etc..

there are lots of reasons, but the bottom line is, knowing there is a gun in a house, allows you to respond accordingly..

the meth lab tangent really makes no sense. Police don't need a swat team to execute a warrant for a meth lab if they have no reason to suspect there will be an armed confrontation there. A search warrant is not an arrest warrant.

http://www.hackcanada.com/canadian/freedom/search.html

http://www.nfa.ca/resource-items/search-warrants-police-are-your-door-what-do-you-do

I hate to say it but anyone leaving a meth lab lying around in their house instead of cleaning up after a batch is not too bright.

If people are smart enough to make it they should be smart enough to safely dispose of it like with a metal kiln etc..

http://www.mappsd.org/Labs%20Photo%20Gallery.htm

I look at this junk and wonder why people don't understand why I prefer a legal supply that is monitored and tracked instead of http://www.methingredients.com/

meth is a drug that may still be used in the military(and was used by the US airforce until they started using something like modofinal instead

http://www.crystalmethaddiction.org/History_of_Crystal_Meth.htm

Under the registry you linked to , their’s a requirement to register toy guns.

How's that?

What toy guns arn't used in robberies. While someone could have both a toy gun and a real gun as a red herring, knowing that there are toy guns could limit use of lethal force, it is a protection. Police tend to shoot first and ask questions later. It is better that any question they need to ask already has an answer given before contact. Cops are too reactionary and as you can tell by the deaths and assaaults causing bodily harm.. apply from time to time more force than is required for putting someone into custody, especially in rapidly evolving situations. Police would know to look for the specific type of weapon.. with a rifle you can tell if the person has a pistol and you are responding to distress.. then cover and full body armour and a swat team may be prudent.

This stuff may or may not save lives, but its not only the cops lives, its also the gunowners, or toy gunowners life who may be saved by having that information available.

Edited January 31, 2012 by William Ashley

[Guest Derek L]

I'm sure you're well aware of how stupid your allegory is, so I'm not even going to humour it with a serious reply.

Suite yourself…….But I don’t see a difference, other then the fact that tens of thousands of Canadians die from the effects of substance abuse annually, contrasted to the less than a 1000 that die via a lead injection (And of that, the RCMP seems reluctant to release how many of said firearms are registered)

[Smallc]

Like a kid waiting for Christmas.........Still don’t know how they expect it to go through three readings in the Senate in two weeks

They're not planning to. It will be out of the House by mid February.

[Guest Derek L]

They're not planning to. It will be out of the House by mid February.

Just going by the CTV link……realistically, I’m not expecting to be able to go into a store and purchase a firearm with only showing my RPAL until the summer………We shall see.

Are you a gun owner? I ask because you’re in Manitoba and I’m curious if you’ve ever dealt with Wolverine Supplies? I’m going to buy a Swiss Arms Black Rifle once the registry is gonzo, and they’ve got them listed a little cheaper than the local gun stores...

Edited January 31, 2012 by Derek L

[jbg]

That's one Bernardo that won't get to kill anyone (or anyone else.

Good for her.

I'd lay charges and execute her. Her victim was a 99%-er trying to redistribute wealth. Or a spurned potential boyfriend. Either way the intruder was within his rights to break in with a hunting knife. Edited January 31, 2012 by jbg

[Smallc]

Just going by the CTV link…

I was watching The West Block yesterday, and Peter Van Loan said that they hoped to have the bill out of the house in a couple of weeks. CTV obviously wasn't paying attention.

[Smallc]

Are you a gun owner?

Not me, no. My dad has quite a few and my brother has a rifle, but it was never something I was into.

[huh]

Amazing how you keep trotting out those strawmen argument, Derek, even after the RCMP report has been posted, which outlines the reasons for and uses of the long-gun registry.

You have not once, not ever, produced an argument that supports the registry in real terms, beyond because the RCMP said so. I dont care what the RCMP wants, they work for us, not the other way around, why dont you ask the RCMP what they are going to do to reduce the 150+ knife murders a year (not that its possible), perhpas you could suggest they focus on that problem before they spend their time and our money lobbying to keep a registry that is aimed at firearms used in about 3 homicides a year. Or better yet, you could just stop, accept the obvious fact that you don't, have not, and will never have anything sensible to say about this subject and move on to something else.

[cybercoma]

Well, gee.. thanks "huh". I have nothing to say about this. Probably because you can't hear anything besides the fingers you've wedged firmly in your ears. If you really cared why the RCMP finds the registry effective, you would read their arguments. That you don't care what the police themselves have to say about the program just goes to show that you're not actually concerned with hearing all sides. They're kind of an important party to this issue. Like I said, people can argue that we're not getting value for our tax dollars in the registry, but what I take issue with are people that contradict the RCMP and Police Chiefs' about the usefulness and effectiveness of the program. Just because something is useful and effective, doesn't mean we can or should fund it. I'm sure having all of the best and most modern military hardware would be useful and effective too. In any case, the information they provided indicates that the registry was an important part of their operations and served an important function. Suck it up and just say you don't give a crap how useful it is. You don't want to register your guns because you don't want the police and government to know what you have. Cars, boats, babies, marriages, pets, they're all fine. But hands off the guns. Call it what it is.

[guyser]

If people registered their recreational drugs (And let’s throw in Alcohol), they’d be less likely to beat their families, get into violent altercations with strangers and commit suicide……And since they would be required to obtain a Authorization to transport (ATT) their registered drugs from place to place, the instances of impaired driving would also decrease……..

Actually both those things used to be commonplace, especially here in Ontario

You had to register to buy booze and records were kept of what was bought, they could deny you next time you came in saying you have too much, you regd to get a drivers licence which would allow you to put booze in the trunk. Anywhere else and you were in violation of the law.