Shipbuilding contracts

[Derek 2.0]

This has all taken far far too long. The navy has been left dry (forgiven the pun) for far too long by this government and the two before it.

What has taken "far far too long"? You understand purchasing (and designing) a large naval vessel is a major undertaking right? Look no further than any USN or Royal Navy program and I'll show you a decade plus of lead time with an already viable ship building industry

[Smallc]

What has taken "far far too long"? You understand purchasing (and designing) a large naval vessel is a major undertaking right?

If course I do. I'm saying the build contract would have been signed in say...2000.

[Smallc]

It's been reported that if the government had added just over $500M to the JSS budget in 2009, when the original contract was cancelled, we would have gotten 3 ships. That's also frustrating.

[Derek 2.0]

Why give up a ship that you already have? Why not keep all 3?

Who said they would give it up?

[Derek 2.0]

If course I do. I'm saying the build contract would have been signed in say...2000.

With who? And with what money? And what design?

[Smallc]

Who said they would give it up?

It's being reported as an interim capability. You know as well as I that 3 ships would give the RCN a 99% readiness rate for AORs.

With who? And with what money? And what design?

The Liberals neglected the military for a very long time. This should have been done long ago. The Conservatives fixed that...for a while. But they've let things slip a bit now.

[Derek 2.0]

It's been reported that if the government had added just over $500M to the JSS budget in 2009, when the original contract was cancelled, we would have gotten 3 ships. That's also frustrating.

No, that was a "paper design", design devoid of anything beyond a power-point, with then no viable builders.........and of course a design that made no military sense.

[Derek 2.0]

It's being reported as an interim capability. You know as well as I that 3 ships would give the RCN a 99% readiness rate for AORs.

Sure, interim as in a capability to bridge the gap until the two purposed built ships are in service........at such time, the interim capability is already paid for and combined with the two Queenston class, would require less an annual financial burden in operating costs then the two previous steam powered, manpower intensive, Protecteur class.

[Derek 2.0]

Wonder what they'd think of this article.

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the-sinking-of-the-canadian-navy/

That it is a political hit-job devoid of context.........any article that ranks our Navy as the same as Bangladesh, is not worthy of reply.

[Derek 2.0]

No government will cancel the shipbuilding process. I doubt any government will actually even cut the defence budget. Taxes are really the major reason to vote Conservative, and some of their other positions are really giving me pause.

I don't doubt an NDP Government will build some ships, but they won't build actual warships, as there won't be a reason once an NDP Government pulls Canada out of NATO........replace frigates with cutters, and the NDP can still provide union-jobs well building far less capable vessels for a Navy that will be transformed into an lightly armed Coast Guard.

[Derek 2.0]

I don't say there aren't differences (well, I did, but that's not what I meant), but defence isn't one of them in terms of spending and purchases. How they'll be used is a different matter.

Pot is simply a symptom of one of the major problems I have with this government - that is, evidence be damned.

With a Liberal or NDP Government, you can bloody well be certain spending/procurement for the Forces will be greatly reduced, well various capabilities already existing will go without a replacement...........say goodbye to anything that doesn't fit into the mythical image of an unarmed Blue Beret Peacekeeper.........

[Smallc]

That is definitely a possibility.

[Derek 2.0]

That is definitely a possibility.

A possibility? Its without a doubt......the Canadian Forces, under an NDP Government, will get a haircut, resulting in (at best) a mirror image as to whats found in Ireland or New Zealand.......As to the Liberals, the last Trudeau put his own mark on the Forces, a mark only now starting to be scrubbed off, I don't doubt this one would be any different............

Look no further then either parties Defense policy papers.......you'll have to look hard, as they've both been removed from the parties websites (for good reason!!!)

[Smallc]

Well, there is the other side. Labour governments in the UK and Australia have certainly spent money on their militaries.

[Smallc]

I can see, for example, the NDP spending the same money on the military (as they promise to) devoting more to the navy than the airforce. As you say, jobs.

[Derek 2.0]

Well, there is the other side. Labour governments in the UK and Australia have certainly spent money on their militaries.

Labour Governments in the UK and Australia aren't made up of leftist kooks and are more align with American Democrats or the former Liberals here.

[Smallc]

Labour Governments in the UK and Australia aren't made up of leftist kooks and are more align with American Democrats or the former Liberals here.

Thomas Mulcair is no leftist kook. Trudeau is just an empty vassal.

[Derek 2.0]

I can see, for example, the NDP spending the same money on the military (as they promise to) devoting more to the navy than the airforce. As you say, jobs.

Where have they promised to maintain the current defense budget?

[Derek 2.0]

Thomas Mulcair is no leftist kook. Trudeau is just an empty vassal.

And his caucus? You understand this is the same NDP that accused the Canadian Forces of war crimes and has members (Pat Martin) that has referred to the Forces as "G.I. Joe wanting more toys"........If you think the NDP wouldn't be a disaster for (Canada as a whole) the military, you've got rocks in your head.

I base my opinion on past NDP policy papers (going back to Broadbent's '87 calls for a leaving NATO) and whatever is spewed by NDP shills Mike Byers and Steven Staples..........if you have contradictory evidence highlighting the NDP's defense policies, by all means, make them known.

[Smallc]

The NDP was very critical of the cut in defence spending that happened in the quest to balance the budget.

[Derek 2.0]

The NDP was very critical of the cut in defence spending that happened in the quest to balance the budget.

Of course they were, likewise, they would be very critical of the Government if they increased defense spending.........that is what they do.....Of course, the NDP has been mum on their own defense policies.

[Smallc]

The things they have said seem to point to them spending the same money, but not in the same areas, and with far fewer deployments. I don't want them to win, but, I'm not convinced at this point, that they won't.

[Derek 2.0]

The things they have said seem to point to them spending the same money, but not in the same areas, and with far fewer deployments

What things point to that?

From the NDP's Linda McQuaig:

With Ottawa’s deficit about to turn into a surplus, we’ll soon be able to loosen our belts a bit and fulfill our pent-up dream of splurging on new tanks and fighter planes.

Some Canadians have other priorities, of course — investing in public health care usually tops the list in polls — but Stephen Harper’s government has already ruled that out.

Here’s what Harper is actually planning to do: boost military funding and deeply cut spending on health care. None of this is secret — although you wouldn’t necessarily pick it up from the media.

NDP= No Defense Policy

[Smallc]

And then you have Jack Harris blasting and cuts to any part of the military. They aren't all doves.

[Argus]

And then you have Jack Harris blasting and cuts to any part of the military. They aren't all doves.

Yes, but he has a point that the NDP would blast anything the Tories do. I don't see the NDP caring about the military. They've always been reflexively anti-military, in fact, even moreso than the Liberals. You'll find some Liberals and plenty of NDP types who will question why we need a military at all.