SCC ruling: Insite to stay open

[cybercoma]

You're serious. You really don't know? You really need an American to inform you as to what they're doing besides providing clean needles? Okaay. Glad to help you out: Insite also provides syringes, cookers, filters, tourniquets, and clean water to mix drugs. It provides stainless steel alcoves where nurses observe them; it provides them with a place to use and it provides supervision of drug consumption/injection.

Hope that helps y'all understand the situation better.

So they provide clean needles and.... *dramatic pause* ...medical supervision.

[Guest American Woman]

Nice side-step. I've been saying all along that it is possession that is the criminal part of drug use and that consumption is not illegal.

The consumption is illegal, by the the fact that possession is illegal. If possession is illegal, it follows without saying that consumption/injection is illegal.

Again. The Armed forces said non-medical use is illegal - you think you know more than they do??

[Guest American Woman]

So they provide clean needles and.... *dramatic pause* ...medical supervision.

So you simply ignored the rest of my post. And you think that makes you look intelligent? - that it helps you make your case? I'm done discussing this with you. I'm interested in honest, intelligent discussion - and you ain't it.

[Bonam]

Using a drug means that immediately prior to using the drug you possesed the drug that you were about to use. Even if someone else performs the injection, you were for a moment of time the owner of the quantity of the drug that was about to be injected into you. Pretty obvious stuff here, doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

[Guest American Woman]

So you are saying it is legal for Canadian Forces to use but not possess illegal drugs?

This is what the Canadian Forces Applicant Pre-Enrolment Drug Use Policy says - "most (e.g., alcohol, nicotine, caffeine excepted) non-medical drug use is illegal in Canada ...."

It clearly states that non-medical drug use is illegal.

Edited October 1, 2011 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

I'm not familiar with the specific legal codes that regulate the conduct of military personnel....

...and it shows.

See Queens Regulations and Orders, to wit:

QR&O 20 prohibits the use of any drug unless it is authorized by a medical professional, is a non-prescription medication used in accordance with accompanying instructions or is required in the course of military duties. These factors are further constrained by the limitation imposed in the notes: a drug may not be used if its use is contrary to another law of Canada.

[cybercoma]

The consumption is illegal, by the the fact that possession is illegal. If possession is illegal, it follows without saying that consumption/injection is illegal.

Possession and consumption are two different things. The former is illegal, while the latter is not, regardless of how many times you say to yourself consumption is illegal.

[cybercoma]

So you simply ignored the rest of my post. And you think that makes you look intelligent? - that it helps you make your case? I'm done discussing this with you. I'm interested in honest, intelligent discussion - and you ain't it.

Honest, intelligent discussion would be you sucking it up and admitting that consumption of drugs is not illegal. I didn't ignored the rest of your post because I synthesized your grocery list of clean supplies into "clean needles". Since you're so intelligent, I figured that was obvious.

[cybercoma]

It clearly states that non-medical drug use is illegal.

Every time you say drug use is illegal, I'm going to demand that you show the section of the CDSA that says so. Post the law or stfu.

[cybercoma]

...and it shows.

See Queens Regulations and Orders, to wit:

QR&O 20 prohibits the use of any drug unless it is authorized by a medical professional, is a non-prescription medication used in accordance with accompanying instructions or is required in the course of military duties. These factors are further constrained by the limitation imposed in the notes: a drug may not be used if its use is contrary to another law of Canada.

That's all very nice, but the regulations for military personnel have nothing to do with anything. That's like saying, Home Depot employees have to wear orange aprons, so it's a law that all Canadians must wear orange aprons.

[Bonam]

Every time you say drug use is illegal, I'm going to demand that you show the section of the CDSA that says so. Post the law or stfu.

See my earlier post. Consumption implies possession. To use something, you must have it. I can't drink a drink I don't have, smoke a cigarette I don't have, or inject myself with heroine I don't have.

Edited October 1, 2011 by Bonam

[Guest American Woman]

See my earlier post. Consumption implies possession (that, or theft).

I've already pointed that out... as well as the armed forces saying it's illegal ....

Edited October 1, 2011 by American Woman

[cybercoma]

See my earlier post. Consumption implies possession (that, or theft).

I've already said that possession is illegal. My entire point has been from the beginning that it is possession of the drugs and not their consumption that is illegal.

[bush_cheney2004]

That's all very nice, but the regulations for military personnel have nothing to do with anything. That's like saying, Home Depot employees have to wear orange aprons, so it's a law that all Canadians must wear orange aprons.

Oh I don't care either way, save for pointing out that AW was/is correct in the case of Canadian Forces. I'm sorry that you consider your own military to be something other than Canadian, but that is a topic for another day.

[cybercoma]

So you're finally conceding that consumption is not illegal?

[cybercoma]

Oh I don't care either way, save for pointing out that AW was/is correct in the case of Canadian Forces. I'm sorry that you consider your own military to be something other than Canadian, but that is a topic for another day.

And all animals are dogs by your logic.

[Bonam]

I've already said that possession is illegal. My entire point has been from the beginning that it is possession of the drugs and not their consumption that is illegal.

That's fine. But if you are carrying out consumption, even if it is not illegal, you are guaranteed to have also committed the act of possession, which is a crime. Thus, to consume a drug which it is illegal to possess, you must have committed a criminal act.

[bush_cheney2004]

See my earlier post. Consumption implies possession. To use something, you must have it. I can't drink a drink I don't have, smoke a cigarette I don't have, or inject myself with heroine I don't have.

Correct....consumption legally provides for the included offense(s) of possession.

[Guest American Woman]

Oh I don't care either way, save for pointing out that AW was/is correct in the case of Canadian Forces. I'm sorry that you consider your own military to be something other than Canadian, but that is a topic for another day.

Cybercoma thinks his interpretation of the law is somehow more accurate than the military's.

[bush_cheney2004]

And all animals are dogs by your logic.

Canadian Forces are not dogs or animals.

[cybercoma]

That's fine. But if you are carrying out consumption, even if it is not illegal, you are guaranteed to have also committed the act of possession, which is a crime. Thus, to consume a drug which it is illegal to possess, you must have committed a criminal act.

I'm not disagreeing with that.

The SCC's decision was such that an absolute ban on possession would prohibit Insite from carrying out its task as a medical facility, causing undue harm to the people that go there, infringing upon their s. 7 rights. The SCC found that Insite should be exempt from the possession regulation in the CDSA.

Edited October 1, 2011 by cybercoma

[cybercoma]

Cybercoma thinks his interpretation of the law is somehow more accurate than the military's.

The regulations for military personnel do not apply to all Canadians. The law that applies to all Canadians is the CDSA.

[Guest American Woman]

I'm not disagreeing with that.

OMG. You just agreed that it's a criminal act to consume an illegal drug. Which means it's illegal.

[bush_cheney2004]

Cybercoma thinks his interpretation of the law is somehow more accurate than the military's.

You nailed him the first time around, so he is trying to parse the debate to preserve some honor. I have learned with you myself to be very thorough when choosing to sally forth on any given topic!

[Guest American Woman]

The regulations for military personnel do not apply to all Canadians. The law that applies to all Canadians is the CDSA.

The military quote was in regards to all Canadians!!