Layton Lionisation Excessive

[Guest American Woman]

I'm suggesting that since our system is so terrible, perhaps that one that he had where ever he came from is better.

The old "America, love it or leave it" attitude, eh?

[Shakeyhands]

The old "America, love it or leave it" attitude, eh?

It's tiring hearing people complain about a system that is pretty excellent. Could it be better? Sure, every system can be improved. But to complain incessantly like many on this board do, it's incredible. Angus lost his health card, ok, fix it, it's not the healthcare systems fault. It's really not that hard. He had a family memeber that was lost, I can understand the pain involved, but to blame the healthcare system for it???

My point, and I stand by it, if you have such an issue with our system, go find a better one, but leave ours for those that realize how incredibly lucky we are, and don't plot about gutting or making it all about how much more profit for those that are already leagues above most of the population. It's about healthcare, not profit.

Can we make it more efficient... absolutely, lets focus on that.

(Edited to add: I really don't mean to sound insensitive Angus, I do hope you don't feel as though I am being so)

Edited September 7, 2011 by Shakeyhands

[Michael Hardner]

My point, and I stand by it, if you have such an issue with our system, go find a better one...

...

Can we make it more efficient... absolutely, lets focus on that.

Yes - let's MAKE a better one. Let's investigate complaints and see if there is merit to them, rather than to point south of the border with a patriotic tremor exclaiming "they are worse !".

[cybercoma]

It's tiring hearing people complain about a system that is pretty excellent.

An interesting point to note that I have come across:

Research shows that people who have no contact with the system are the ones that are most dissatisfied with it. They worry about the future of the system and whatnot. However, the people that do have contact with the system report a higher level of satisfaction with it.

You can interpret that however you would like. I found that interesting when I came across it in a few studies and I'm always reminded of it in conversations like these.

[Shakeyhands]

An interesting point to note that I have come across:

Research shows that people who have no contact with the system are the ones that are most dissatisfied with it. They worry about the future of the system and whatnot. However, the people that do have contact with the system report a higher level of satisfaction with it.

You can interpret that however you would like. I found that interesting when I came across it in a few studies and I'm always reminded of it in conversations like these.

Agreed, I've been hurt seriously (Compartment Syndrom due to a crush injury, compound spiral fracture etc..)a few times, I've never wanted for excellent care, was seen immediately and treated immediately which included surgerys for both the aforementioned issues.

Having said that, if someone had come in with a heart attack or something life threatening, they should be seen before me, regardless if I were to have more money than them.

[Michael Hardner]

I have had mostly excellent care with our system. That, in part, is why I want it to continue.

When I have had bad care, there was no one to complain to, and no one interested in improving glitches.

[Shakeyhands]

I have had mostly excellent care with our system. That, in part, is why I want it to continue.

When I have had bad care, there was no one to complain to, and no one interested in improving glitches.

Which hospital? I've been treated at a few but mostly go to LakeRidge Health

http://www.lakeridgehealth.on.ca/article.php?id=9TL-14C&navID=listMenuRootH

http://www.ombudsman.on.ca/Home.aspx

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/ministry/minister.aspx

[Michael Hardner]

Which hospital? I've been treated at a few but mostly go to LakeRidge Health

It was a specialist at Mt. Sinai. There was a 'contact us' page on their website that went into a black hole from what I could see.

[Shakeyhands]

It was a specialist at Mt. Sinai. There was a 'contact us' page on their website that went into a black hole from what I could see.

Dr. M. Shandling Sr. VP Medical @ Mt. Sinai... bet she'd be interested or get you on to someone that was.

[Michael Hardner]

Dr. M. Shandling Sr. VP Medical @ Mt. Sinai... bet she'd be interested or get you on to someone that was.

Well, I sent my complaint. It was years ago, so I can't even remember details here...

Good to know, though.

[Shakeyhands]

Well, I sent my complaint. It was years ago, so I can't even remember details here...

Good to know, though.

Point being... if you look you can always find someone to help address your concerns. Or, I suppose, you could complain about it on the internet.

[Michael Hardner]

Point being... if you look you can always find someone to help address your concerns. Or, I suppose, you could complain about it on the internet.

I complained about it through the available channels when my problem happened, and there was no meaningful response.

[Shakeyhands]

I wasn't referring to you in particular Michael.

[Guest American Woman]

American Woman, on 07 September 2011 - 08:12 AM, said: The old "America, love it or leave it" attitude, eh?

It's tiring hearing people complain about a system that is pretty excellent.

That's pretty much the mindset that "America, love it or leave it" is based on. Some people think it's tiring to hear people complain about a country that is pretty excellent.

Could it be better? Sure, every system can be improved. But to complain incessantly like many on this board do, it's incredible. Angus lost his health card, ok, fix it, it's not the healthcare systems fault. It's really not that hard.

With all due respect, how would you know how difficult it is under his circumstances? Unless you've had the same problem, you are just assuming that it wouldn't be difficult to fix - and if he is having difficulty getting the problem fixed, and can't get health care in the meantime, it sure is the system's fault. He's a tax paying Canadian, therefore paying into the system and other people's care - how can the system be blameless?

He had a family memeber that was lost, I can understand the pain involved, but to blame the healthcare system for it???

The family member wasn't just lost, but misdiagnosed on three separate occasions, if I remember correctly. I think it would be natural to have some blame for the system under the circumstances. I think it's pretty difficult to simply dismiss the loss and patriotically stand by the system.

My point, and I stand by it, if you have such an issue with our system, go find a better one, but leave ours for those that realize how incredibly lucky we are,

Again - exactly the "America, love it or leave it" mindset. Seems to me anyone who has such an issue with your system should speak out about it. Your system is for all Canadians - not just those who quietly accept the good while ignoring the bad.

...and don't plot about gutting or making it all about how much more profit for those that are already leagues above most of the population. It's about healthcare, not profit.

It's also about profit to a certain degree, because doctors don't go to med school - spend the time and money that they do - all for altruistic purposes. Same with medical research and pharmaceutical research. Sometimes higher wages-more profit equals higher quality care.

Can we make it more efficient... absolutely, lets focus on that.

And how does one do that without complaining about the faults in the existing system? And there are faults. Sounds to me as if you want everyone to stop the complaining and revel in what's good - in spite of the fact that it definitely needs improving. People are supposed to be so appreciative of the good that they should not complain about the bad aspects. That's generally not the way things get fixed.

But bottom line. Angus has every right to speak his mind in a free country such as Canada. As has been pointed out, he's even served in the military, which means he was willing to fight to protect those rights - for himself and other Canadians. To in effect tell him to "love it or leave it" goes against all that Canada stands for. Our countries are as great as they are partly because people haven't just accepted the bad because of the good.