Drugs found on Martin's ship

[Argus]

Canada Customs discovered, by a fluke, some $30 million in cocaine being smuggled on one of Paul Martin's CSL ships. It was a fluke because they just happened to come across it. They don't have the personnel to properly inspect ships coming into Canada's ports. They had to call in agents from others cities and hire private divers because they had none.

Coast guard and navy ships tied up at docks for lack of money for fuel and personnel, no ports police - Paul Martin having elminated them as a "cost saving measure", RCMP pulling people from the borders for lack of funding, woefully understaffed customs agencies.... and Paul Martin's company smuggling drugs.

Hmmm. Coincidence? Or hidden agenda?

Silly, I know. But how does it look; a guy who owns a major shipping line eliminating the Ports Police, and then having drugs found on one of his ships?

[Cartman]

I think it was for his personal use...explains a lot about the lousy campaign too.

[caesar]

That is a cheap shot and beneath you. The drugs were put in by divers under the ship. It has NO connection to the steamship lines nor any of the personnell on the ship.

Don't try to make it out to be anything else. Are you that desperate to find something to use to criticize Martin. I could find some valid arguments for not supporting him. I don't have to use innuendo that has NO merit.

[Reverend Blair]

I'd love it to be about something else, but Caesar is right. I was almost gleeful when I saw the headline this morning, and sadly disappointed when I saw the story that followed.

Blaming Martin for the coke on his boat is as wrong as saying that Reagan won the Cold War or Dick Cheney shouldn't change his name to Spiro Agnew.

[maplesyrup]

Argus.....how do you feel about our prime minister running his company offshore to avoid Canadian taxes?

Is this a good Canadian role model?

[August1991]

Argus.....how do you feel about our prime minister running his company offshore to avoid Canadian taxes?

In the shipping business, it is imperative. There is no way to compete otherwise.

The bigger issue is that corporate taxes are on the way out. They are a very bad form of taxation; almost as bad as the high taxation of social payments and payroll "taxes" such as EI and state pension plan (CPP/QPP) payments.

Eastern Europe is following the Irish approach; the US will eventually do the same.

Ireland's 12.5% was the lowest corporation tax rate of the 69 countries surveyed, however Cyprus has a rate of 10% but a defense levy of 3% is also applied to profits. Japan has the highest rate at 42% followed by Germany's 39.58%.

Irish Site

The best sources of government revenue are VAT, income tax, property tax and user fees.

I would love to see environmental taxes. They even have the potential to be politically popular once politicians figure them out.

[takeanumber]

The world according to Argus:

When Libs go negative: it's crass and trashy.

When Cons go negative: it's classy and the truth.

Oh no, a marijuana grow op was found the house Mr. Smith rents out.

Mr. Smith must have a hidden agenda.

Idiot.

[maplesyrup]

The survey shows that corporation tax rates continue on a declining trend. Of the major industrial countries, only 3 (Canada, Germany and Italy) have reduced their rates between 2003 and 2004. Of the 69 countries surveyed, only 3 (Chile, Hong Kong and Peru) have increased rates.

What is Canada's corp tax rate?

[takeanumber]

Base = 18.5% (I think)

But most companies cheat on their taxes by using offshore banking.

And then legitimize it by saying that our corporate taxes are higher than in the US.

When in reality, they're equal.

In spite of that fact, using offshore tax shelters to cheat taxes is still wrong, and not justified.

Last time I checked, corporate Canada benefits from a healthy, well educated workforce and consumer market.

Why shouldn't they pay their fair share?

Exactly. It's rent-seeking. Anybody can see that.

Time for a crackdown.

[maplesyrup]

So Ireland has a low corporate tax rate. What is their overall rate of tax? In other words, even if corp. taxes are low, income taxes may be high. What does it really mean?

[Argus]

Argus.....how do you feel about our prime minister running his company offshore to avoid Canadian taxes?

In the shipping business, it is imperative. There is no way to compete otherwise.

Are you sure of that? Because there are some 120 ships registered in Canada. Of the ships registered in Bermuda, only 10 are Canadian, registered there for "convenience" - presumably Martin's CSL ships.

I think it typical that our media makes no fuss over a finance minister, the chief of taxation, dodging taxes and keeping loopholes which are obviously not in Canada's interests open - loopholes which chiefly benefit his own company. Now he's PM. Guess what the odds are of that loophole being closed?

[idealisttotheend]

The drugs issue is a non starter Argus. But I agree with your last post. THe Cons should have went after Martin on reflaging his ships and on cutting health care transfers. Water under the bridge now though.

[Argus]

That is a cheap shot and beneath you.  The drugs were put in by divers under the ship.  It has NO connection to the steamship lines nor any of the personnell on the ship. 

Is it or is it not true that Martin - who runs ships into Canadian ports all the time - was responsible for eliminating the ports police, despite virtually *everyone* claiming this was a very dangerous move which would make criminal misuse of our ports far more likely and far less dangerous?

Is it or is it not true that Coast Guard and Navy ships are tied up at docks for lack of money?

Is it or is it not true that Customs are underfunded and undermanned, unable to properly inspect ships and cargo entering Canada?

Is it or is it not true the RCMP are so underfunded they cannot properly police either the ports or our borders, that they recently withdrew people stationed along the Canada-US border in Quebec and Ontario for lack of funding?

Did Martin know coke was being smuggled in one of his ships? I highly doubt it. Has Martin done almost everything in his power to make sure smuggling drugs, weapons, people or anything else into Canada is safe and lucrative? Yes.

[maplesyrup]

Argus....I gather you want a tax increase to help pay for all these additional government services.

I thought it was Canada Customs who discovered the drugs.

That's a pretty powerful statement concerning the importance of our good government in Canada.

The fact that Canada Customs exposed it, rather than covered it up, because it is a Martin company, is very impressive as well.

[Argus]

Argus....I gather you want a tax increase to help pay for all these additional government services.

I would be willing if it were neccesary. I don't believe it is, though. We could just take it out of what the Liberals steal and waste.

I thought it was Canada Customs who discovered the drugs.

Do you really think this is the first time this has happened? How many smiliar ships carried drugs into our ports in the past months and years which weren't detected for lack of resources?

[DAC]

How many smiliar ships carried drugs into our ports in the past months and years which weren't detected for lack of resources?

Yes. & my newspaper's report seems to suggest that in this case the discovery was almost a lucky accident. They were checking, but could easily have missed this.

[August1991]

The following is from the CSL web site.

CSL wholly owns 16 ships which sail under the Canadian flag. The income generated by these 16 ships is subject to the same income tax in Canada, at the same rates, as any other Canadian corporation.

These are CSL's lake ships.

CSL International (CSLI) manages an international pool of 18 ships, 8 of which are owned by two European companies unaffiliated with CSLI. Another 5 are indirectly owned by companies in which CSL holds a non-controlling 50 % stake. CSL and its subsidiaries wholly own just 8 international ships, 5 of which are in the pool. In addition, CSL participates in joint ventures that include 4 ships in which we own partial shares varying between 25 and 50 %.

Ordinary people can lease or buy cars now too.

Ships that trade in international routes pay either no tax or are taxed at a relatively low rate. ...  You may ask, how can Canada permit this lower taxation rate for international ships? Well, Canada is one of a majority of countries in the world (including the USA) that permit this tax treatment. If Canada were to prohibit this, there would be an exodus of companies dealing in international trade...

True.

To argue that CSL is engaging in tax evasion is false. To say it is not paying its fair share would be demagogic.

----

On the other hand, the shipping industry is closely tied (like so much else in Canada) to the government. Argus listed a variety of government services such as the Coast Guard which are used by shipping companies.

There are many businesses in Canada (transportation and communication) where government contacts are the determining factor in success.

As to the cocaine on the boat, since the boat was bringing coal to Nova Scotia Power, it's an indication that CSL has probably a monopoly on government shipping contracts to Canada. IOW, if you want to ship cocaine from Venezuela to Canada on a bulk carrier, you gotta use CSL.

[maplesyrup]

Tax avoidance is what we are talking about.

As prime minister, a role model for Canadians, this does not look good. Sorry but that's just reality.

Taxes are something we should be celebrating, not try to avoid, especially our prime minister..

Because of taxes we have a health care system ,schools, roads, a justice system, etc.

[takeanumber]

Yup.

And Martin is filthy for avoiding taxes.

But the same goes for most of Bay Street.

Insider Trading, questionable accounting practices, and very weak shareholder rights, you know, and all policed by who?

Crooked securities regulators and crooked accountants.

I'll invest my money in Main Street before I ever invest in Bay Street.

The Royal Bank for instance has branches in Bermuda, St Kitts and sexy St. Lucia.

Now what on earth would they being doing down there?

It's just terrible and disgusting.

Rent seeking.

That's all it is: rent seeking.

And it's time we put a stop to it.

But of course, the momment you start to discover corruption, the execs fire off a round of layoffs to make the public all scared about rocking the boat.

God dammit, what is gonna take to get some real freaking shareholder power?

[caesar]

Sorry Mapleleaf; I do not celebrate paying taxes. I pay them kicking and screaming and complaining. But, I do pay them. Perhaps if there were more openess and public scrutiny available for exactly how our money is being spent; we would all be more willing to pay our share.

I resent patronage appointments; I would want my money being used to appoint the best man for the jobtaking his qualifications into consideration not his party loyalty. Whenever there is a change in governments; these people are replaced leaving with large severance packages and pensions. One in BC was pensioned off without serving one day in her office. Then there are the "fired" politicians ; they leave; taking with them generous severance packages and outrageous pensions. I would believe more money is wasted this way than in corruption.

How much money do they spend on cost analysis of projects that never are really under cnsideration.

That is one of my beefs with Martin. He said he was going to do away with patronage appointments; then started handing them out like candy; especially to old MPs loyal to Chretien; to have them go away without a fuss.

I do not like either Martin or Harper hand picking candidates in any riding. I was very pleased when the displaced Conservative candidate, Chuck Cadman, won his riding as an independent with a huge lead. His replacement was brought about by a surge in ethnic members to pick their own ethnic candidates. For ten dollars ; anyone can be signed up as a party member (including a few cats and dogs) with no knowledge or understanding of the political party; to allow an ethnic person to get the right to run for that party. It is getting very prevalent here in Greater Vancouver, especially the Surrey area. Complain and you are called racist.

[Argus]

CSL wholly owns 16 ships which sail under the Canadian flag. The income generated by these 16 ships is subject to the same income tax in Canada, at the same rates, as any other Canadian corporation.

These are CSL's lake ships.

In other words, they have no choice. They can't register these ships abroad.

The rest is just fluff. It doesn't even say how many ocean going ships CSL owns are registered abroad, nor whether CSL wanted the ones it holds "non-controlling interest" to register abroad or in Canada.

Yes, other countries allow registration abroad. But it is a scheme which defrauds the countries that these ships make their money from of rightful taxes. And it should be stopped. Furthermore, government operations such as Nova Scotia Power should refuse to hire ships not registered in Canada.

Not likely while Martin is PM, of course. Nor are any changes likely while Martin is PM. If I earn money abroad, but live in Canada I am required to pay full Canadian taxes on it. which, by the way, I do, and I do. I had to write the government a fat cheque a couple of months ago because of foreign earnings, and I certainly can't register myself abroad to get away from Martin's taxes.

[Argus]

Sorry Mapleleaf;  I do not celebrate paying taxes.  I pay them kicking and screaming and complaining.  But, I do pay them.  Perhaps if there were more openess and public scrutiny available for exactly how our money is being spent; we would all be more willing to pay our share.

I resent patronage appointments; I would want my money being used to appoint the best man for the jobtaking his qualifications into consideration not his party loyalty. 

I don't think Canadians realize just how many patronage appointments there are, and how little are their qualifications - or work. Or how much it costs.

My favorite remains Gilbert Parent, a rather sleazy ex speaker being chased for alimoni by his ex wife after screwing around behind her back. He is currently our "Ambassador to the Environment", a gift from the grateful taxpayer (that's you). As far as I can tell his job is to occasionally fly on government jets, or first class commercial to places like Vienna, Paris, and Tokyo, to stay at 5 star hotels and eat 12 course dinners - and, if he has time, drop in on some government "environment" meeting or another. Whether he actually has anything to say is questionable as Gib Parent never evidenced the slightest interest in or knowledge of environmental issues while he was a Liberal MP.

His pay rate for all that work is $225,000 per anum - on top of his golden pension. :angry:

[August1991]

If I earn money abroad, but live in Canada I am required to pay full Canadian taxes on it.

As do the shareholders on any revenues made on those foreign ships.

The only tax avoided is the corporation tax which, IMV, should be abolished anyway.

[maplesyrup]

Caesar.....that's was a dead dog, wasn't it?

It looks mighty fine on Bill Cunningham to lose - them's his just desserts for running such a scuzy Liberal nomination process in BC.

Burnaby-Douglas

Bill Siksay

Party: NDP

Elected: Yes

Percent: 34.6%

Bill Cunningham

Party: Liberal

Elected: No

Percent: 32.6%

George Drazenovic

Party: Conservative

Elected: No

Percent: 27.6%

Other Parties

Party: Other

Elected: No

Percent: 5.2%

[takeanumber]

The only tax avoided is the corporation tax which, IMV, should be abolished anyway.

It's a neat idea, but I can't agree at this point.

I just think all of Bay Street is dirty and scuzzy.

They've lost my confidence, which means, yeah, I'll have to be an indepedant investor to make my money work for me.

Which is fine. I've watched all the boomers get burned by Bre-X and Nortel.

The financial industry simply can't correct itself because they're not taught, nor really have many, ethics.

And it'll bite them in the ass in the end.