Military at the next G8/G20 summit?

[CPCFTW]

There is no justfication for killing looters of shops or homes that does not also properly entail the killing of looters of economies and nations, and yet strangely the first is reflexive while the second is alien.

Hahahaha come on. I thought the left was past the whole "corporations are looting and raping our children" stage.

[GostHacked]

Hahahaha come on. I thought the left was past the whole "corporations are looting and raping our children" stage.

It's actually the banks that are ripping us off with our government's approval to help out failing corporations.

Also, I got a copy of that metro paper, i'll do a scan on that one article and post a link to the pic.

[bloodyminded]

Your second amendment is a travesty, IMHO. And yes, our human rights kangaroo courts are a joke. I agree. We all try to make life better for our children. I would love to get rid of guns and get rid of our human rights joke boxes.

I have yet to see a really strong, expansive argument for getting rid of guns, and have had debates with my liberal friends over exactly this.

But I agree with you about the "human rights joke boxes." At best, they're wasteful and unnecessary, since we already have a strong, well-established (relatively) effective judicial system. At worst, they're themselves restrictive of rights, as we've seen in a few cases.

Edited June 3, 2011 by bloodyminded

[maple_leafs182]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/05/30/g8-g20-security-costs.html

So in light of the cost of the G8 and G20 summits in the Toronto area, officials are saying that using the military to do some of the police work would have been more cost effective. Now I have no problem with the military helping out in emergencies (flooding in Quebec and Manitoba), that is actually a great civic use of the military. But the main reason for the military is to fight in foreign lands, not to police citizens at home. Is that like martial law when the army is patrolling the streets?

Many police were making a lot of money that weekend it seems. Average moneys to cops pulled in from other areas were between $5000 and $7500.

It is cheaper I guess to bring in the military, but if that is done, and the military is used to policing and detainment, what does that mean exactly? Is that even a possibility?

I drove to Toronto for the G20. I would say at least 80% of the cops their were not needed. The fences were not needed. Having the meeting in downtown Toronto in itself was not a smart idea.

I don't know if its just me, I don't see world leaders as being better then any one on this forum or anywhere, we should stop treating them as if they are kings.

[WIP]

I don't see any posts mentioning the significance of these G8/G20 summits. They pretty much represent the only form of international cooperation that's acceptable the Right -- globalism in the interests of multinational corporations! It seems that rightwing conservatives and libertarians start pulling out their nationalism and isolationism whenever international action is called for regarding issues like: reducing carbon emissions, prosecuting war criminals, ensuring livable wages and better working conditions in nations where manufacturing has been outsourced -- but when it comes to the corporate globalization, national boundaries just melt away like they don't even exist!

Since these summits are where the real policy decisions are made behind closed doors, the protests are the only way for voicing dissent...and they should be allowed within proximity of the VIP's and the media who follow them around, not relegated to special protest areas miles away from the summit locations. How much further proof do we need that democracy is dying in this country, if not already dead?

[Saipan]

There is no justfication for killing looters of shops or homes

There is in my world. If wild hordes of looters break into my home I shoot all of them. Protecting safety of my neighbourhood.

killing of looters of economies and nations, and yet strangely the first is reflexive while the second is alien.

That too, we have whole army for that.

[Saipan]

Having the meeting in downtown Toronto in itself was not a smart idea.

And why would that be?

It displeased professional protesters? Those specifically ought to be locked up before any such event.

[Saipan]

It's actually the banks that are ripping us off with our government's approval to help out failing corporations.

Which bank helped which failing corporation?

Yes, banks do indeed ripping us off. Just like anyone else does. Lawyers, automechanics, optometrists......

It's up to us to shop around. For everyting. When I found out the friggin' CIBC, that I used for 42 years, is ripping me off I switched to Scotiabank. 'Though being new there I got now FAR better interest rates.

[Saipan]

So you think the appropriate punishment for breaking a window is death?

Depends.

If it's broken by kids playing ball, no big deal.

Broken by a mob, then shoting becomes a seldefence and necessity.

Devil is always in the details. To clarify: Say group of five "innocent civilian" is shooting at you. You fire back fast as you can - TO SAVE YOUR LIFE. But it tuns out only two were actually armed. You shot three innocent civilians.

Likewise innocent bystanders are thrown into police truck - and sort out later. Mingling oneself into looting mob is always a bad idea. I'd call it plain stupid.

[Saipan]

The whole "Patriot Act" shit in the US and other things happening in Canada, supposedly to help the war on terror just make me cringe.

"The Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned.

When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him,

for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."

- - - Mark Twain

[maple_leafs182]

It seems that rightwing conservatives and libertarians start pulling out their nationalism and isolationism whenever international action is called for regarding issues like: reducing carbon emissions, prosecuting war criminals, ensuring livable wages and better working conditions in nations where manufacturing has been outsourced -- but when it comes to the corporate globalization, national boundaries just melt away like they don't even exist!

That is not true. I am against both the G20 and G8 meetings along with big multinational corporation.

And why would that be?

It displeased professional protesters? Those specifically ought to be locked up before any such event.

They had to shutdown the downtown of the largest city in Canada for them. I would of preferred they had the meeting over the internet with a live stream for the public to watch. Would of saved over a billion dollars and property would not of been damaged.

[bloodyminded]

And why would that be?

It displeased professional protesters? Those specifically ought to be locked up before any such event.

I think you have internalized the anti-democratic and oppressive nature of communist tyranny. You support it, so long as the word "communist" is not invoked.

So why do you pretend otherwise?

Edited June 12, 2011 by bloodyminded

[Tilter]

You obviously don't know me, nor have read much of what I've posted. For the record, I've written before about bringing Singapore's answer to street vermin to Canada. I don't have a big problem with corporal punishment suiting the crime. It'd be a lot cheaper and more efficient than a few months in prison in many instances. I like the idea of prison 'at hard labour' too. I am, in short, no bleeding heart liberal.

But here's the thing. I think punks who attack people on the street should be severely dealt with EVEN if those punks are wearing uniforms.

or the people they attack are wearing uniforms.

[Scotty]

or the people they attack are wearing uniforms.

I'm unaware of a single instance where a police officer was attacked by protestors. Since you seem to believe otherwise you can no doubt provide the list of casualties from among the ranks of those in blue suffering under this terrible assault... Or at least the number of those arrested and charged with assaulting police... Or something?

[Tilter]

That is not true. I am against both the G20 and G8 meetings along with big multinational corporation.

They had to shutdown the downtown of the largest city in Canada for them. I would of preferred they had the meeting over the internet with a live stream for the public to watch. Would of saved over a billion dollars and property would not of been damaged.

You've got the answer.

Just think how pleasing this would be to the bureaucrats who attend these meetings:

No photo-ops with various governmental bigwigs from all over the world.

No stays in 4,000 buck/nite hotel suites for them & their families/mistresses.

No First Class travel to various parts of the world.

A chance to actually accomplish something meaningful.

The ability for every participant to save the millions involved in the meetings the way they are now hosted.

ETC

ETC

Nawwww never happen

[GostHacked]

I'm unaware of a single instance where a police officer was attacked by protestors. Since you seem to believe otherwise you can no doubt provide the list of casualties from among the ranks of those in blue suffering under this terrible assault... Or at least the number of those arrested and charged with assaulting police... Or something?

That also means those cops would have to identify themsevles in order to lay charges against a person who assaulted them. Also it's quite hard to assault someone who is wearing full riot gear armour and comes equipped with a love stick and a sheild. Reminds me of a beef this one kid had with me when I was young. All dressed up in his football gear after a practice and caught me in my walk home. Wanted to beat the crap out of me, wanted me to fight him. I told him he was an ass an walked away. But I digress. These cops want to remain unidentifiable and anonymous, so we can't lay charges on a specific cop for any otheir actions.

A cop beat me up and assaulted me.

---Can you identify that cop?

No, they were not wearing name tags, or anything that identifies them specifically. Not even what precinct they belonged to.

---So you cannot idenfity the cop?

No, also could not really see his face hiding behind the visor in his helmet.

---So you cannot identify the cop?

No ...

---Well, good luck with that. Sorry we can't do anything for you.

[GostHacked]

Well, well well. What do we have here.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/06/24/g20-surveillance.html

Newly released G8/G20 summit documents reveal the RCMP and various Ontario police forces spent several months infiltrating anti-war, anti-globalization and anarchist groups with the use of undercover officers ahead of last June's summits in Huntsville and Toronto.

The reports by the Joint Intelligence Group formed by the RCMP-led ISU (Integrated Security Unit) show that various police services contributed at least 12 undercover officers to take part in covert surveillance of potential "criminal extremists" in a bid to "detect … and disrupt" any threats.

Undercover police officers infiltrating some of the protesting groups. They did not admit that before, next thing you know they will be admitting that the cops were the ones who started the violence.

But the article does mention that event hough there were many arrested before the summit, the violence still took place. Could the riots have been bigger? Possibly. Who knows.