Postal Strike Imminent

[TimG]

But an industry average would also include the Dollar Store, and all those little mom and pop retail outlets which pay minimum wage.

Why should government pay more than a mom and pop operation?

And who says that a strategy to limit turnover isn't the right way for the government to go?

Could be but we need to agree that the industry average is the appropriate reference point.

[Smallc]

Why should government pay more than a mom and pop operation?

Well, it depends what job the person is doing. Many government employees probably are overpaid, and their retirement compensation is definitely out of line.

[Battletoads]

Red herring alert!!

It does not follow that rural or remote areas would need 'massive subsidies' to get first class mail, the transport infrastructure that flies mail into Iqualuit today is not owned or operated by Cabada Post now, nor would it be tomorrow.

I don't see your point. Transporting mail there is expensive, and the cost is currently subsidized. Should Canada post be gutted, as you Cons want, the cost to transport a letter/parcel/ will skyrocket.

The volume of mail into Iqualuit or Dognuts, Manitoba is nothing, a complete insignifigance compared to first class volumes into and around large centres. If a first class letter cost $10 instead of $.57 to send there, it would be meaningless compared to the money Canada Post makes on first class mail elsewhere.

Blind speculation... Care to back up your wild assertions with a shred of data? I know you'll spew some semantic BS but I might as well ask.

Implications for Canadian business and individuals? For the vast majority, the cost of delivering first class mail would drop considerabl;y.

Canada's postage rates, in comparisons America (I choose America as you idolize them) have a difference of about ~15 cents for first class mail... Just think! For every 10 letters you send you could buy another double double with all you'd save by taking the Conservatives 'death to well paying jobs' route. Oh unless you live even a slight distance from a population centre.

Household delivery would be replaced by community boxes, which are already very common as Canada Post has long recognized that it is very costly for them. Rural areas would be served by private sector carriers at greater cost, perhaps subisdized by the savings elsewhere.

Oh yeah those kind private corporations are going to take a loss to get mail to the rural communities I don't know what your smoking, but I'd like to buy some.

In any case, the true cost of mail would be evident instead of hidden in the layers of politics, subsidy and privilege that exists today.

Red herring alert!!

[guyser]

Personally, I think the German way is a much better society, and I don't see German companies crying out for bankruptcy or government bailouts the way American companies are.

They cried quietly, Markel gave out in excess of 70 Billion Euros in 08-09 in stimulus spending to protect many sectors.

Not to mention Germany stagnated in 2001 to 2005.Unemployment was very high then too.

[Battletoads]

Well, it depends what job the person is doing. Many government employees probably are overpaid, and their retirement compensation is definitely out of line.

Think you got it backward. Private sector employees are currently underpaid, but that's what happens when you allow companies to use 3rd world labour.

[Battletoads]

Not to mention Germany stagnated in 2001 to 2005.Unemployment was very high then too.

For everyone but the rich Canada has been pretty much stagnant for more than two decades.

[Smallc]

Think you got it backward. Private sector employees are currently underpaid, but that's what happens when you allow companies to use 3rd world labour.

You know, not all of us who are managers in the private sector are rich assholes stinking it to the little guy. The fact that someone at the bottom of Canada post will, in most years, make more than me, is outrageous. It isn't so bad in the case of Canada post, since they are mostly self sufficient, but it is a problem that permeates government. People are paid well in their work lives, and that isn't so bad. The real problem comes in retirement. They can spend all of their working money (unlike me) and not save anything, because they have a generous guaranteed pension. They also, often, get to continue benefits in retirement that many in the private sector (businesses small or large) can't even access in their working lives.

No, you just don't know what you're talking about.

[TimG]

Think you got it backward. Private sector employees are currently underpaid, but that's what happens when you allow companies to use 3rd world labour.

Right. An in your fantasy land everyone would get paid $25/hour for no-skill jobs which would push up the cost to living to the point where $25/hour buys no more than $10/hour today.

[Smallc]

For everyone but the rich Canada has been pretty much stagnant for more than two decades.

That isn't even close to true.

[Battletoads]

You know, not all of us who are managers in the private sector are rich assholes stinking it to the little guy. The fact that someone at the bottom of Canada post will, in most years, make more than me, is outrageous. It isn't so bad in the case of Canada post, since they are mostly self sufficient, but it is a problem that permeates government. People are paid well in their work lives, and that isn't so bad. The real problem comes in retirement. They can spend all of their working money (unlike me) and not save anything, because they have a generous guaranteed pension. They also, often, get to continue benefits in retirement that many in the private sector (businesses small or large) can't even access in their working lives.

No, you just don't know what you're talking about.

Cry me a river. If the job is so easy why don't you apply for a position.

Oh and in many other countries, the job you do would likely come with the benefits Canada Post employees receive. You can probably chalk that up to the fact that they don't vote for Conservative hacks, like some Canadians.

[Battletoads]

That isn't even close to true.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2008/05/01/f-cp-census-income.html

"B..B..But Teh Communist Broadcasting Corporation...'

No wonder Conservatives scum like yourself want the census gone.

[guyser]

You can't just take bald data like that on its face value.

From the Fed of Independant Business? Sure I can !

. What's a clerk in the private sector vs a clerk in the public sector? Do they really do the same jobs?

Yes

Large organizations tend to have a lot more complicated sets of requirements. Is the accountant who does people's taxes for a small firm in the private sector making the same as an accountant who does complicated books for a major corporation? No? Then why should he be the same as an accountant working for the federal government?

Because an accoutant is an accountant.

The private sector guy working for a cleaning company might make minimum wages for mopping down the floor of supermarket, but the public sector guy is probably cleaning a hospital or lab or something like that with much more severe demands. Does a purchasing clerk working for a small company make the million dollar purchases the same guy in the public sector might? Is he using the same complicated software and responsible for abiding by the same levels of Treasury board and departmental policies and guidelines?

I am unsure of your end game with all these what ifs.

But ok , many Hospitals contract cleaning out to save money. Hmm....wonder why?

A purchasing clerk is a purchasing clerk. Some private sector ones handle millions, some govt ones handle millions. So what? Same job .Same hardware , same policies just different results when the private employee guy screws up. He gets canned. The public guy gets the old "oh well , it aint our money" speech and a promotion.

As the op pointed out, 'the private sector' will, in addition to comparable jobs in large multinationals, include an awful lot of low level jobs in very cheap organizations which don't require much and don't pay much. It's not fair to be comparing them to the federal government, which strives to make itself an employer of choice.

Plenty, and I mean plenty of fed govt employees have jobs that "dont require much " but get paid large. Ever been to renew your plates?

Now there is one job anyone could be trained to do before morning break.

[CPCFTW]

Another who has become entitled to his entitlements. Lol "conservative scum". Lol yes if it wasn't for the conservatives, everyone would be making 25/hr... What kind of fairy tail world do you live in? Can't make this stuff up.

[Smallc]

Cry me a river. If the job is so easy why don't you apply for a position.

Because my grandmother is retiring and my mom i going to apply for it, and continue to work at her business. You know why? Because it pays over $20 per hour, and is only part time.

Oh and in many other countries, the job you do would likely come with the benefits Canada Post employees receive. You can probably chalk that up to the fact that they don't vote for Conservative hacks, like some Canadians.

I can't afford to pay for those benefits as a business owner, so I'm not sure where they'd come from.

[CPCFTW]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2008/05/01/f-cp-census-income.html

"B..B..But Teh Communist Broadcasting Corporation...'

No wonder Conservatives scum like yourself want the census gone.

Hmmm so the rich have been getting richer and the public sector has guaranteed wage increases and ever expanding pension liabilities, I wonder who must be driving down average compensation? Oh I know, the non-unionized private sector workers who get an increasingly smaller slice of the pie that they were mostly responsible for baking. Continuing with that analogy: The cooks get less and less for the product of their labour, the restaurant owners and managers profit as compensation for managerial skill and their capital outlays, and the health inspector and other regulatory bodies profit because... Well I haven't figured that one out yet.

[Smallc]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2008/05/01/f-cp-census-income.html

I stand corrected. I know that government wages have certainly went up. My parents private income has also gone up.

No wonder Conservatives scum like yourself want the census gone.

What in the world are you talking about? There are multiple posts of mine on here supporting the census.

[CPCFTW]

What in the world are you talking about? There are multiple posts of mine on here supporting the census.

"Silence conservative scum!!! Get back to work, my pension won't fund itself!!!"

[MiddleClassCentrist]

"Get back to work, my pension won't fund itself!!!"

What type of pension plan is Canada Post?

I know the Ontario Teacher's Pension Plan is a defined contribution pension plan. A young teacher friend of mine pays over $6000/year into theirs.

[CPCFTW]

What type of pension plan is Canada Post?

I know the Ontario Teacher's Pension Plan is a defined contribution pension plan. A young teacher friend of mine pays over $6000/year into theirs.

lol "pays" 6000/yr into hers. I don't think you have any idea what a defined contribution pension plan is.

All that means is that 6000 more taxpayer dollars per year go to funding her pension plan. Defined contribution just means that the return on that 6000 isn't guaranteed unlike your sweet pension plan in which your future benefits are guaranteed by other people"s money no matter how the plan's assets perform. Your poor friend has to make do with whatever the accumulated return of 6000/yr of taxpayer dollars can afford when she retires

Edited June 2, 2011 by CPCFTW

[MiddleClassCentrist]

lol "pays" 6000/yr into hers. I don't think you have any idea what a defined contribution pension plan is.

All that means is that 6000 more taxpayer dollars per year go to funding her pension plan. Defined contribution just means that the return on that 6000 isn't guaranteed unlike your sweet pension plan in which your future benefits are guaranteed by other people"s money no matter how the plan's assets perform. Your poor friend has to make do with whatever the accumulated return of 6000/yr of taxpayer dollars can afford when she retires

K, maybe screwed up on the type of plan.

$6000/year of their salary is put into the plan as a 2nd year teacher. It's tough to see that, especially with student loans. Of course, it is for the greater benefit of the teacher later on but, it is hard.

That's why most people, like yourself, go around on web forums whining and complaining that they don't have one. They take the easy route, and don't actually save for themselves. Do you save 15% of your salary for your pension each year?

You are also not fully correct. Employee contribution rates go up when the plan is not able to meet its future 70 year obligations.

Edited June 2, 2011 by MiddleClassCentrist

[CPCFTW]

K, maybe screwed up on the type of plan.

$6000/year of their salary is put into the plan as a 2nd year teacher. It's tough to see that, especially with student loans. Of course, it is for the greater benefit of the teacher later on but, it is hard.

That's why most people, like yourself, go around on web forums whining and complaining that they don't have one. They take the easy route, and don't actually save for themselves. Do you save 15% of your salary for your pension each year?

You are also not fully correct. Employee contribution rates go up when the plan is not able to meet its future 70 year obligations.

No actually I contribute the maximum allowable 18% of my salary to my RRSP for the tax deduction. I don't need a nanny state to do it for me. This way the government can only tax 82% of my salary to pay for bloated public sector salaries and benefits.

FYI, the OTPP matches all contributions and the contributions are tax deductible:

http://www.otpp.com/wps/wcm/connect/otpp_en/home/member+info/Contributions/

So your poor friend is contributing 6000 of her own money and 6000 of mine.

According to the contribution rates, she is making about 60k.

Under Ontario's Pension Benefits Act, you cannot pay for more than half of the value of the pension earned for service after 1986. Any excess amount is refunded to you (or your estate) on termination of membership, death or retirement

Wow as a 2nd year teacher, she only makes 60k/yr with an employer matching pension plan and 3 months vacation and dental and other benefits, plus a refund if she overpays into her plan?!?!

Awwww I really feel her, it's really "tough to see".

Edited June 2, 2011 by CPCFTW

[Battletoads]

I stand corrected. I know that government wages have certainly went up. My parents private income has also gone up.

Have they been increasing at a rate that exceeds inflation? Simply put, if you get a 2% raise when inflation is say 2.5% you're really taking a ~0.5% wage cut.

What in the world are you talking about? There are multiple posts of mine on here supporting the census.

My apologies then, I have mistaken you for someone else.

[Smallc]

Have they been increasing at a rate that exceeds inflation?

Well yes, they have, but nothing much above that, according to Stats Can.

[mikedavid00]

This way the government can only tax 82% of my salary to pay for bloated public sector salaries and benefits.

At least you know where the money goes. Most people don't know.

When the gov't 'spends' money, it's actually spending it on huge pensions, salaries, and benefits.

You should find out how many people that report working full time at a usual place of work (a real job) actually work for the gov't. Try around 1 out of 4 people.

Then look into a the salaries of those people and see who has the money.

I am from Ottawa and worked in the public service as well as many as my friends. I can by typing all day and night on 'tales from the gov't'. The useless, make work, wastefull, unbelievable things we did. You should have seen what my job position was and what my projects were. It was simply unbelievable. All the food in the cafeteria was subsidized.. no.. i won't go on and on.

I can assure you that what goes on in those federal buildings is a bunch of make work, fake work nonsense. It's a big scam. It's white collar welfare. People 'pretending' to 'play office'. That's the best way I can describe it.. we were 'playing office'.

[CPCFTW]

At least you know where the money goes. Most people don't know.

When the gov't 'spends' money, it's actually spending it on huge pensions, salaries, and benefits.

You should find out how many people that report working full time at a usual place of work (a real job) actually work for the gov't. Try around 1 out of 4 people.

Then look into a the salaries of those people and see who has the money.

I am from Ottawa and worked in the public service as well as many as my friends. I can by typing all day and night on 'tales from the gov't'. The useless, make work, wastefull, unbelievable things we did. You should have seen what my job position was and what my projects were. It was simply unbelievable. All the food in the cafeteria was subsidized.. no.. i won't go on and on.

I can assure you that what goes on in those federal buildings is a bunch of make work, fake work nonsense. It's a big scam. It's white collar welfare. People 'pretending' to 'play office'. That's the best way I can describe it.. we were 'playing office'.

Believe me, I know this all too well. I worked three summer student positions in three different large departments with the federal government and it was enough for me to know that I definitely didn't want a career in the public sector. I couldn't stand the thought of spending all that money on an education just to, as you so aptly put it, play office for 30-40yrs.

The funny thing is that I had also worked quite a few menial minimum wage jobs in the private sector during high school and they were actually much more challenging (and less boring) than the government jobs.