NDP Constitution - An exercise in Marxism

[punked]

When a country feels the need to insist that they are "Democratic", it usually means that they aren't. It was East Germany that was the Democratic Republic. It's North Korea that is the Democratic Republic. Cuba insists that their system is Democratic Socialism.

Cuba does not insist that good try though.

[Bryan]

Cuba does not insist that good try though.

I've been there twice in the last year, they most certainly DO make that claim.

Castro has repeatedly made claims that Cuba is more democratic than the US.

[jbg]

When a country feels the need to insist that they are "Democratic", it usually means that they aren't. It was East Germany that was the Democratic Republic. It's North Korea that is the Democratic Republic. Cuba insists that their system is Democratic Socialism.

I remember when Albania progressed from being the Democratic Socialist Republic of Albania to the Democratic Peoples' Socialist Republic of Albania. I suppose that was progress on Marx's paradyn of the withering away of the state in a classless (perhaps wealthless) society?

[punked]

I've been there twice in the last year, they most certainly DO make that claim.

Castro has repeatedly made claims that Cuba is more democratic than the US.

Oh I am sure they insist they are democratic but they are not democratic socialist.

[Bryan]

Oh I am sure they insist they are democratic but they are not democratic socialist.

You don't think Cuba is socialist?

[KeyStone]

When a country feels the need to insist that they are "Democratic", it usually means that they aren't. It was East Germany that was the Democratic Republic. It's North Korea that is the Democratic Republic. Cuba insists that their system is Democratic Socialism.

I think you're missing the point.

If the NDP claim to support democratic socialist countries, that does not include North Korea by any stretch of the imagination.

The NDP do not state in their platform that they will support any country that claims to be democratic, or has democratic in the name, they say they will support democratic nations. Drawing the conclusion that this means they will support North Korea etc, is intellectually dishonest.

[RNG]

Great you better call up the Conservatives and tell them to get rid of NAFTA then.

You really don't have a clue about what NAFTA is, do you?

[cybercoma]

So you're opposed to current Canadian companies selling bottled water overseas?

If so, what would you/NDP do to stop this?

Shifting the goal posts.

[cybercoma]

once you bottle the water, it becomes a good and is no longer a resource.

Covered it, i see.

[punked]

You don't think Cuba is socialist?

Nope I think Cuba is Communist which is about the same distance away from Socialism on the spectrum as Capitalism. I have no use for either Communism or Socialism though which is why I am in a party which are Social Democrats, NOT Democratic Socialists.

[RNG]

Nope I think Cuba is Communist which is about the same distance away from Socialism on the spectrum as Capitalism. I have no use for either Communism or Socialism though which is why I am in a party which are Social Democrats, NOT Democratic Socialists.

Great linguistic gymnastics. I may quote this from now on.

[punked]

Great linguistic gymnastics. I may quote this from now on.

Whatever floats your boat.

[cybercoma]

punked, many of the posters here have absolutely no clue that there's a difference between socialism and communism. They think they're the same thing and point to the Soviet Union as a "Socialist Republic".

[Jack Weber]

Great linguistic gymnastics. I may quote this from now on.

This from aguy who thinks "libertarianism" is only a product of the political right....

[Bryan]

I am in a party which are Social Democrats, NOT Democratic Socialists.

TomAYto, TomAHto.

[RNG]

This from aguy who thinks "libertarianism" is only a product of the political right....

I don't think that at all. Small government, social liberalism and fiscal conservatavism are not all right wing tenants.

[pegasus]

A "social democrat" could be defined as a democrat who likes to be social. (i.e. –adjective

1.

pertaining to, devoted to, or characterized by friendly companionship or relations: a social club.

2.

seeking or enjoying the companionship of others; friendly; sociable; gregarious.

3.

of, pertaining to, connected with, or suited to polite or fashionable society: a social event.

- noun

1. an informal gathering, esp of an organized group, to promote companionship, communal activity, etc

Thank you dictionary.com. This would lead you to believe that all political parties in this country could all call themselves "social democrats". Adjective 1 - They are all social clubs. 2. They all seek the companionship of others 3. All parties have held social events. And noun 1. All parties promote a level of companionship and communal activity. i.e. All parties that maintain democracy must be social, or else they would not survive.

Edited May 13, 2011 by pegasus

[pegasus]

Social Democrat

 

–noun

(especially in Europe) a member of any of certain Social Democratic parties.

1. any socialist who believes in the gradual transformation of capitalism into democratic socialism

2. ( usually capital ) a member of a Social Democratic Party

Once again, thank you dictionary.com

P.S. I couldn't find the term "democratic socialist". Dictionary.com just reverts back to "social democrat"

democratic socialism

n

Definition: a form of socialism with a democratic government; the ownership and control of the means of production, capital, land, property, etc., by the community as a whole -- combined with a democratic government

Etymology: democracy + socialism

Edited May 13, 2011 by pegasus

[Guest Derek L]

Shifting the goal posts.

Am I?

Some claim if over 18 liters this to be a catastrophic event, but under 18 liters to be a perfectly fine product.

[Rovik]

It works out fine for PEI, NB and NS. It has its pros and cons, people can plan around gas prices, it stops rural gas stations from closing because they can plan ahead, and it protects the consumers from fluctuation like the 8 cents gas spike yesterday in Ontario. I don't know why you point to it like it some sort of failure on the scope of other plans implemented it has fans and it has detractors but all in all it isn't a failure or success.

The bank of Canada is an arms length organization which belongs to the GOVERNMENT OF CANADA. Yep the government already sets interest rates sorry.

No I am saying the NDP is in an internal debate right now about their constitution and it would not be a proper document to show what the party stands for until the party actually has a large scale debate about it which is set for a month from now in which the membership has their say.

Just to add; Newfoundland and Labrador also has gas prices regulated and that was brought in by a Conservative govt. (must have been a socialist Conservative govt)...I have to laugh..how many times do those fervant right wingers try to mislabel as a purely socialist, communist or marxist govt. It has no basis in truth (the NDP are a social democrat govt.) As long as people try to mislabel the NDP this way, I have no objection to people calling the Conservatives fascist (I don't believe this but as long as the right wingers mislabel the NDP, then it's only fair for the Conservatives to be mislabelled in return)

[jbg]

Just to add; Newfoundland and Labrador also has gas prices regulated and that was brought in by a Conservative govt. (must have been a socialist Conservative govt)...I have to laugh..how many times do those fervant right wingers try to mislabel as a purely socialist, communist or marxist govt. It has no basis in truth (the NDP are a social democrat govt.) As long as people try to mislabel the NDP this way, I have no objection to people calling the Conservatives fascist (I don't believe this but as long as the right wingers mislabel the NDP, then it's only fair for the Conservatives to be mislabelled in return)

Nixon, a supposedly right-wing Republican (though not really) gave us gasoline price controls. After two nasty shortages, roughly from April-October 1973 as spot shortages and through March 1974 as serious regional shortages, and then again from October 1978 through April 1979 as spot shortages and then through July 1979 as serious regional shortages, gas price controls were scrapped in January 1981. The result; prices plummeted.

[punked]

Nixon, a supposedly right-wing Republican (though not really) gave us gasoline price controls. After two nasty shortages, roughly from April-October 1973 as spot shortages and through March 1974 as serious regional shortages, and then again from October 1978 through April 1979 as spot shortages and then through July 1979 as serious regional shortages, gas price controls were scrapped in January 1981. The result; prices plummeted.

Yah the price of gas plummeting had nothing to do with controls, it had everything to do with supply.

[jbg]

Yah the price of gas plummeting had nothing to do with controls, it had everything to do with supply.

Actually, the way the price control mechanism was designed, in its later years it boosted the price. While I don't want to get technical here, it had something to do with what's called "small refiner bias". In order to protect small refineries, they were allocated a diminishing amount of crude in production from years prior to 1973, which was controlled at $5.75 per barrel ("old oil") and some at roughly $12 per barrel that came online from 1973 to 1976 ("new oil"). The remaining oil, including newer oil and imports ("new new oil") was free from controls.

This byzantine system led to the explosion in building of "teakettle refineries" or "bias babies" that existed solely because of the allotment of "old oil". For exceedingly complex reasons, though the crude market was relatively stable at the end of 1980 and beginning of 1981, the price of products exploded. When Reagan pulled the plug on controls eight days into his term, the prices surged for a few days and then plummeted as a result of the winding-down of these distortions.

The system would have been funny if it didn't have consequences.

The one thing we did learn from that period, early 1981, and from early 1974, which repeated itself both during the summer of 2008 and now is that when gasoline reaches a real price (inflation adjusted) in the neighborbhood of both historical peaks, it plunges fast.