Stephen Harper, the Only Winner in Election 2011

[Sandy MacNab]

As I asked Bonam, where do you think your clients got the money to become self employed?

If you think it was primarly from the banks and other lending institutions, think again. Many have had to cash in what little they have in RRSPs and other investments, borrow from relatives or friends. Those who have used lending institutions have had to indenture their assets, their souls, and offer the banker the virginity of their daughters

(just kiddng about the last one)

[Guest Derek L]

If you think it was primarly from the banks and other lending institutions, think again. Many have had to cash in what little they have in RRSPs and other investments, borrow from relatives or friends. Those who have used lending institutions have had to indenture their assets, their souls, and offer the banker the virginity of their daughters

(just kiddng about the last one)

I know it's kinda chicken & the egg, but what where their invested funds, invested in?

Again, I don't want to sound as if I'm attacking small buisness owners, but all I'm saying is that the economic conditions created by a stable Conservative government are not only benifiting the "upper class".

The "eat the rich" mentality of some is getting rather annoying. After all, don’t those that try and go out on their own desire economic freedom?

[fellowtraveller]

August, interesting OP and I agree with you for the most part.

This bit is most germane

But worse for Quebec voters, Harper won his majority without need of seats in Quebec. And this shift to the West will only increase in the next House seat redistribution.

This must surely panic the separatistes as well as the soft nationalists. Qubec has had great success in leveraging their vote and threat of separating into gaining advanatge, economic adanvtage, from Ottawa. With this election and no need for Quebec seats, that elverage is largely gone. With the Bloc out, the threat of separation- which is no longer scary to the many Canadians who are more or less resigned to a departure- is reduced, the threat is diminished.

And the poor NDP are carrying the load for la belle province..... there are great expectations of them from within Quebec and they really have little in the way of tools to make htem happen- and risk really alienating their base in the ROC if they should somehow succeed in advancing a Quebec agenda.

I don't agree with a shift to the West, nothing in that regard has changed, the big electoral shift for the Tories was in the center, in Ontario. There won't be a seat 'redistribution', but hopefully there will be some alignm,ent realized where the large increases in population in Ontario, AB and BC are ackowledged, while the growth stagnation in Quebec and overallotment in the Maritimes are simply adressed in the Coomons.

It will be interesting to see how Quebec objects to that and the NDP opposes it. NDP is gonna have some hard rain ahead.

[Battletoads]

How many jobs do the “middle or lower class” create on their own? Have you ever worked for a “poor person”? Did you borrow the money for your car/house from a “poor person”?

Guess you've never heard of small business...

[Guest Derek L]

Guess you've never heard of small business...

And like I asked the other posters, where does small business get it's intial start-up capital?

[RNG]

And like I asked the other posters, where does small business get it's intial start-up capital?

I got mine out of my savings. And I borrowed a bit from some relatives (that was paid back with interest within 6 mo.). You don't need much more than an idea, drive and desire.

[Guest Derek L]

I got mine out of my savings. And I borrowed a bit from some relatives (that was paid back with interest within 6 mo.). You don't need much more than an idea, drive and desire.

Not meant as an attack, but a question, how many people did/do you employ?

I agree, a young kid with a lawn mower, weed whacker and a old pick-up could start his/her own business.....same with a person that does a decent job cutting hair......but how many jobs is that going to create?

Also where is the "line" that one crosses to go from small business to an "evil corporation making it's wealth on the backs of the poor"?

My point, is that a strong economy, doesn't just benefit the "super rich elites", what’s generally good for the kid cutting grass is also good for the shareholders of a publically traded company.

[Battletoads]

My point, is that a strong economy, doesn't just benefit the "super rich elites"

Tax cuts for the rich don't generate a strong economy.

[Battletoads]

And like I asked the other posters, where does small business get it's intial start-up capital?

Most people invest their own savings in a small business.

Or they get others to invest in their company, friends, family, local entrepreneurs, ect

[ninjandrew]

Derek L, what are you getting at??

It sounds like you're under the impression that everyone should get/create a job that creates jobs, or something... I'm just trying to figure out what your argument is.

[betsy]

Craig Oliver said that way back, Harper said he'll have the Liberals gone in 3 elections. I don't know if what Craig said is true, but if it is.....that's been fulfilled! The Liberals are gone for quite a while....if they'll ever be able to come back as they are.

2 minorty government (where-in according to oppositions he ruled as a majority), followed by a real, resounding majority. On top of that, the attainment of a goal!

Of course Harper is the only winner!

[Bryan]

Craig Oliver said that way back, Harper said he'll have the Liberals gone in 3 elections.

Oliver was just conveying original the long term Harper-Flanagan electoral plan.

The primary goal was to eradicate the Liberal Party, get themselves elected was secondary. Getting a majority was a distant third. Having an extended minority was actually helping the first goal, because it didn't give the Liberals time to properly recover and rebuild.

Flanagan is not even with the Conservatives anymore, so I don't know if the plan even applies anymore, but it sure looks like it's going in at least that general direction.

[betsy]

Oliver was just conveying original the long term Harper-Flanagan electoral plan.

The primary goal was to eradicate the Liberal Party, get themselves elected was secondary. Getting a majority was a distant third. Having an extended minority was actually helping the first goal, because it didn't give the Liberals time to properly recover and rebuild.

Flanagan is not even with the Conservatives anymore, so I don't know if the plan even applies anymore, but it sure looks like it's going in at least that general direction.

Thanks for explaining.

[Battletoads]

Derek L, what are you getting at??

It sounds like you're under the impression that everyone should get/create a job that creates jobs, or something... I'm just trying to figure out what your argument is.

His argument seems to be that small business doesn't create jobs, which is a laughable point of view. Unfortunately that idea is all to common amongst conservatives, hence the Cons continuously ignore small business.

At the very least small businesses provide jobs for the owners, and usually those jobs are better than whatever private sector work they'd be payed poorly to do.

[ninjandrew]

His argument seems to be that small business doesn't create jobs, which is a laughable point of view. Unfortunately that idea is all to common amongst conservatives, hence the Cons continuously ignore small business.

At the very least small businesses provide jobs for the owners, and usually those jobs are better than whatever private sector work they'd be payed poorly to do.

I'll side with that. In forestry, people start up their own consulting companies all the time. I've seen them with as little as a few employees all the way up to, if theyre successful enough, and with time, thousands of employees!

[Sandy MacNab]

Tax cuts for the rich don't generate a strong economy.

It sure as hell doesn't create a weak one.

[Sandy MacNab]

His argument seems to be that small business doesn't create jobs, which is a laughable point of view. Unfortunately that idea is all to common amongst conservatives, hence the Cons continuously ignore small business.

At the very least small businesses provide jobs for the owners, and usually those jobs are better than whatever private sector work they'd be payed poorly to do.

Sorry, but you are absolutely wrong! The Conservatives have been dropping the tax rates &/or increasing the small business limit because they know small business is a major creator of jobs. Most provinces have been doing the same. Read some publications of the Canadian Federation of Independent Business to learn more about how small to medium bussinesses are the country's job creators.

[Guest Derek L]

Most people invest their own savings in a small business.

Or they get others to invest in their company, friends, family, local entrepreneurs, ect

Would you consider those with enough savings or that have other sources (Family, friends etc) to be “poor”? What is the desire behind starting a small business?

Tax cuts for the rich don't generate a strong economy.

What happens to the money that I have invested? What do, Lockheed, Kinder Morgan and Royal Dutch Shell do with the capital that I’ve provided them?

His argument seems to be that small business doesn't create jobs, which is a laughable point of view. Unfortunately that idea is all to common amongst conservatives, hence the Cons continuously ignore small business.

At the very least small businesses provide jobs for the owners, and usually those jobs are better than whatever private sector work they'd be payed poorly to do.

I have nothing against those that desire economic freedom.

As for jobs, as a small business grows, and employs more people, has a larger infrastructure etc, it will require outside capital, be it in the form of a bank loan/line credit and/or in the form of outside investment like bonds/shares etc.

If a small business owner is able to drastically expand on his/her own revenue stream, and create jobs etc, doesn't that make said owner no longer "poor"?

[Guest Derek L]

Derek L, what are you getting at??

It sounds like you're under the impression that everyone should get/create a job that creates jobs, or something... I'm just trying to figure out what your argument is.

No, my point is that economic growth, be it in terms of a monetary figure or a number figure related to those employed, will always be achieved by those with (or the desire of) personal economic freedom.

There will always be truck drivers, and there will always be those that desire to, or own the trucking company.

In relation to this topic, people with or without that said desire will beneift under a Harper/Conservative government.

[fellowtraveller]

In forestry, people start up their own consulting companies all the time. I've seen them with as little as a few employees all the way up to, if theyre successful enough, and with time, thousands of employees!

Really? Name one 'forestry consulting company' that has thousands of employess.

Take your time.