Liberals have too much hope

[nittanylionstorm07]

Every single time a Liberal MP, former MP, or supporter brings up "well in 1984 we were reduced to 40 seats, and look what happened!", I cringe.

It's not even remotely the same.

First, Mulroney had a HUGE! majority. 200+ seats. Harper doesn't have that.

Second, the Liberal's votes went to the PCs. The NDP seats went down in 1984. The PCs were ideologically opposed to the Liberals, whereas in 2011, the Liberals' were replaced by a more solid left-wing party.

Totally different. The Liberals' position has been fundamentally usurped by a party better able to handle defending the left-wing position.

[ToadBrother]

Totally different. The Liberals' position has been fundamentally usurped by a party better able to handle defending the left-wing position.

And yet, if the NDP want to actually form a government, and not see their gains disappear, they're going to have to move towards the center. How will the left wing of the NDP feel about that?

[WWWTT]

And yet, if the NDP want to actually form a government, and not see their gains disappear, they're going to have to move towards the center. How will the left wing of the NDP feel about that?

Pretty good I say!

Jack did lay out a plan to reduce small business tax/employee rebate and ran on it and won 102 seats.

Don't confuse trust with talk.

NDP have proven voter trust!

WWWTT

[nittanylionstorm07]

And yet, if the NDP want to actually form a government, and not see their gains disappear, they're going to have to move towards the center. How will the left wing of the NDP feel about that?

It depends.

If the Harper majority is an utter disaster, the NDP wouldn't have to move much more. Actually, the only thing that needs to move is Ontario.

The left wing of the NDP would probably be ecstatic that their party is in government. If the NDP forms a majority government, they'll get to have an equally efficient voice as the SoCred wing of the CPC will this time around.

[PIK]

And yet, if the NDP want to actually form a government, and not see their gains disappear, they're going to have to move towards the center. How will the left wing of the NDP feel about that?

Not only that ,they are going to have to grow up and grow up fast. There support I believe in quebec is very soft,especially when the realize what people they elected. Edited May 3, 2011 by PIK

[Posc Student]

Rob Silver has a piece in the Globe and Mail today about the 4 different groups that will likely emerge in the Liberals and one was the group that will think the party needs to be completely reformed, which he thought is probably needed.

[ToadBrother]

Not only that ,they are going to have to grow up and grow up fast. There support I believe in quebec is very soft,especially when the realize what people they elected.

Layton is going to have one tough job ahead of him. He should be thanking his lucky stars he doesn't have to govern both the country and his party.

[Shwa]

Every single time a Liberal MP, former MP, or supporter brings up "well in 1984 we were reduced to 40 seats, and look what happened!", I cringe.

It's not even remotely the same.

First, Mulroney had a HUGE! majority. 200+ seats. Harper doesn't have that.

Second, the Liberal's votes went to the PCs. The NDP seats went down in 1984. The PCs were ideologically opposed to the Liberals, whereas in 2011, the Liberals' were replaced by a more solid left-wing party.

Totally different. The Liberals' position has been fundamentally usurped by a party better able to handle defending the left-wing centre position.

Sounds reasonable, except the very last line, which I fixed for you.

[nittanylionstorm07]

Sounds reasonable, except the very last line, which I fixed for you.

I know, I know. The Liberals are a centre party. However, they were the main party of the "left" as in "left of the Conservatives". I know the NDP were much more technically left-wing than that.

[Evening Star]

Rob Silver has a piece in the Globe and Mail today about the 4 different groups that will likely emerge in the Liberals and one was the group that will think the party needs to be completely reformed, which he thought is probably needed.

That piece is incredibly honest. Is that the first time a prominent party member has admitted right after a campaign that his party never even really believed in their platform?

[RNG]

Pretty good I say!

Jack did lay out a plan to reduce small business tax/employee rebate and ran on it and won 102 seats.

Don't confuse trust with talk.

NDP have proven voter trust!

WWWTT

But can I respond with the over-used "But 70% of the voters voted against the NDP"?

[Posc Student]

That piece is incredibly honest. Is that the first time a prominent party member has admitted right after a campaign that his party never even really believed in their platform?

I never read the full thing, too long, just the last part about the 4 possible groups within the party.

[WWWTT]

But can I respond with the over-used "But 70% of the voters voted against the NDP"?

If the NDP won a minority government yes you could!

Opposition?

Sounds like a solid opposition to me!

WWWTT

[capricorn]

Opposition?

Sounds like a solid opposition to me!

WWWTT

A solid opposition would be one strong enough to take out the government with the help of other opposition parties. Even with having mores seats, it is not the case for the NDP now. As was said by some commentators on CPAC, the NDP has less clout now in the House than it had in the previous Parliament, where Harper had to cater to the NDP for support in order to avoid a takedown. This time around, the NDP can howl and wail till the cows come home but Harper will be calling the shots solo for the next four years.

[WWWTT]

A solid opposition would be one strong enough to take out the government with the help of other opposition parties. Even with having mores seats, it is not the case for the NDP now. As was said by some commentators on CPAC, the NDP has less clout now in the House than it had in the previous Parliament, where Harper had to cater to the NDP for support in order to avoid a takedown. This time around, the NDP can howl and wail till the cows come home but Harper will be calling the shots solo for the next four years.

Harper catering to the left was one of the reasons Harper has his majority now!Your welcome!

He can no longer do this!

He has effectively lost half of his issues to fight the left on!

It is Harper who is venturing into dark unchartered waters now!

If you think its smooth sailing from here on your dreaming!

This is the conservatives most uncertain time.

Tables turned now so be careful what you wish for or 2015=1993!

WWWTT

[TTM]

There are two scenarios I see for the Liberals, and it depends on what the other parties do. If the NDP and Conservatives become more polarised over time, then there is room for the Liberals to rebuild as a party of the center--fiscally conservative and socially liberal. However this would likely be a long term process (at least two election cycles, probably more), and it would require getting over serious branding issues in the west and in Quebec.

The other possibility is that the other two parties crowd them out of the center. Once the reality of this sinks in, there will either be a slow disintegration of the party (much like the Liberals in Sask.) or a formal merger with the NDP. The right of the party will migrate over to the Conservatives. I think its likely, especially with a merger, that the left wing of the NDP migrate out of the party and merge with/take over the Greens. Assuming the BQ are done as a major force in Quebec, at the end of the day we will see a similar situation to before 1993, but instead of PC, Lib., NDP it would be Cons., NDP(/Lib party), Green.

Of course there is a very good chance we end up with just the Cons. and NDP. As much as a two party system makes things easier, it is polarising and restrictive on choice, and I hope we don't end up with such a system. I hope third (and even fourth) parties continue to play a roll in the system (Bloc excepted).