NDP Constituion and policy

[Scotty]

When someone links to a small part of the NDP membership, a part which has no influence and tries to pretend that they what the NDP stands for they are being dishonest. I don't take kindly to lies.

That's the sort of thing which happens when you state that your core principles are secret and not to be read by outsiders.

[Evening Star]

Fwiw, from the NDP Socialist Caucus's own website:

The NDP Socialist Caucus is comprised of hundreds of NDP members from across Canada and Quebec committed to winning the party to a socialist programme to replace the politics of the pro-capitalist "Third Way" espoused by Bob Rae, Nelson Riis, Roy Romanow, Ujjal Dosanjh, Alexa McDonough and the majority of the federal caucus and provincial leaders. Their politics abandon the interests of working people and are leading the NDP to defeats and irrelevancy. Now more than ever the NDP must serve the interests of working and oppressed people.

They basically acknowledge that they are a fringe element within the party. As far as I know, Davies has never been a member but I can't say for sure. Someone within the party could probably answer that more easily.

[bloodyminded]

THAT is to be taken as gospel because of some anecdotal "evidence".

Did we not just have a bit of health care debate, in which your personal "anecdotal evidence" was your primary "source"?

[Hydraboss]

Did we not just have a bit of health care debate, in which your personal "anecdotal evidence" was your primary "source"?

Correct. I do not, however, claim to represent the "healthcare" views of the CPC. I represented my own views of how the system is dysfunctional.

[bloodyminded]

Correct. I do not, however, claim to represent the "healthcare" views of the CPC. I represented my own views of how the system is dysfunctional.

Yes...but in this situation, we had an anti-NDP poster claiming a personal anecdote--a phone call he made--versus cybercoma posting us an actual history of how the NDP marginalized the socialists...as well as the socialists themselves admitting that they are a fringe group.

So your criticism, though you don't seem to know it, is aimed at the critics of the NDP on this issue.

Edited May 1, 2011 by bloodyminded

[punked]

I am not sure but I think they took it down because we are to vote in a month at convention to get rid of the preamble. I think this was on the docket for last convention but we spent the entire hour to hour and half devoted to constitutional changes talking about if we should or should not drop the new from our name.

Constitutional changes unlike other things like policy can only be passed at convention I believe.

[punked]

I'm not sure what your argument is implying by saying I should be taken at my word, considering you cut out the part where I posted a verifiable historical fact about the federal NDP crushing the socialist element of the NB NDP before it even got off the ground. It seems like you're advocating for being able to say whatever the hell you want about the NDP whether it's the truth or not. Well, you can. It doesn't make it true and it makes you look like an idiot if you ignore all the evidence to the contrary. Most of the things you posted about the Conservatives are judgments made about the activities of the CPC.

Stephen Lewis actually kicked I think 2000 socialist out of the party in Ontario when he came to the head of it. Really it takes like half an hour of reading party history to know we are a social democrats who believe in a regulated free market which the government can compete in if they chose. Not socialists.

[Scotty]

I am not sure but I think they took it down because we are to vote in a month at convention to get rid of the preamble.

That sounds reasonable, or would if the NDP had said that to the CBC instead of telling them it's a 'private' document which is eyes-only for the membership.

[Guest peterb]

Velvet Touch – A Community Clinic – Who Knew???

Olivia Chow was quick to release a written statement, that husband Jack Layton indeed did attend a “registered massage clinic” and she was well aware of it and he “needed a massage” late in the evening.

Jack Layton, later at a rally in Burnaby, was quick to point out and clarify Olivia’s comment, that in fact it was a “community clinic” (Velvet Touch) where he obtained his services. In trying to protect his political career, and in tune with the NDP philosophy, he felt it very important to stress it was a “community clinic” not to be confused with a private clinic. It was essential in the middle of this election, to inform Canadians, in order to solicit their support, he wouldn’t be caught dead at a private clinic, where illegal, underage, Asian sex workers, would be employed by rip off artists, in the Canadian health care field – it would have to be a community clinic he patronizes – there should be no confusion. A good leader leads by example.

I wonder if Canadians becoming more aware of the fine details of the NDP health care platform and of Layton’s expansion of health care services to include these “community clinics”, help explain the surge in support for the NDP in this current election. Does anybody in the main street media have a better explanation for the NDP surge and why are they reluctant to discuss this NDP expansion of Canada’s health services?

Why and how could the Toronto city police confuse a community clinic with a bawdy house?

[punked]

That sounds reasonable, or would if the NDP had said that to the CBC instead of telling them it's a 'private' document which is eyes-only for the membership.

Fair enough. I know we were to debate the preamble last convention but that people got so ramped up about the name change (which I was for at the time) that they ran the clock out on the debate so we didn't get to the other 5 resolutions on the Constitution.

[Smallc]

Velvet Touch – A Community Clinic – Who Knew???

Olivia Chow was quick to release a written statement, that husband Jack Layton indeed did attend a “registered massage clinic” and she was well aware of it and he “needed a massage” late in the evening.

Jack Layton, later at a rally in Burnaby, was quick to point out and clarify Olivia’s comment, that in fact it was a “community clinic” (Velvet Touch) where he obtained his services. In trying to protect his political career, and in tune with the NDP philosophy, he felt it very important to stress it was a “community clinic” not to be confused with a private clinic. It was essential in the middle of this election, to inform Canadians, in order to solicit their support, he wouldn’t be caught dead at a private clinic, where illegal, underage, Asian sex workers, would be employed by rip off artists, in the Canadian health care field – it would have to be a community clinic he patronizes – there should be no confusion. A good leader leads by example.

I wonder if Canadians becoming more aware of the fine details of the NDP health care platform and of Layton’s expansion of health care services to include these “community clinics”, help explain the surge in support for the NDP in this current election. Does anybody in the main street media have a better explanation for the NDP surge and why are they reluctant to discuss this NDP expansion of Canada’s health services?

Why and how could the Toronto city police confuse a community clinic with a bawdy house?

Isn't this kind of thing not allowed? And he does it all the time.

[Hydraboss]

Velvet Touch – A Community Clinic – Who Knew???

Go back to the sandbox and play with Mr C. This crap is eating up bandwidth. Post something worth discussing or return to the pit where you, Harry (Maplesyrup) and Mr Canada were spawned.

[Evening Star]

Despite voting for them, I'm much more concerned about the NDP's support for 'asymmetrical federalism' than about the socialist stuff in the preamble to the party constitution.

[punked]

Despite voting for them, I'm much more concerned about the NDP's support for 'asymmetrical federalism' than about the socialist stuff in the preamble to the party constitution.

I just want to point to party history again on this one. We actually disbanded the Quebec provincial wing of the Quebec of the NDP because of their support of soft separatist. Again I can only point to actions which speak louder then worlds ever could.

[cybercoma]

Stephen Lewis actually kicked I think 2000 socialist out of the party in Ontario when he came to the head of it. Really it takes like half an hour of reading party history to know we are a social democrats who believe in a regulated free market which the government can compete in if they chose. Not socialists.

Honestly, I know some party members want to change the name to Social Democratic Party of Canada, but this will only feed into fears about "socialism". I don't think Social should be anywhere in the name. Progressive Democratic Party or something would be better. This is why I believe the name change has not worked for you guys yet.

[cybercoma]

That sounds reasonable, or would if the NDP had said that to the CBC instead of telling them it's a 'private' document which is eyes-only for the membership.

They probably did say that, but his lengthy explanation doesn't make a good sound bite.

[punked]

The other problem I think is the preamble is from the original CCF days I believe. Even though later on we put parts in the Constitution which made the preamble conflict with the rest of the document they couldn't get enough votes (because people hate change) to get rid of the preamble. So the document itself conflicts with in the document. If you don't read the whole thing but take out selective paragraphs it does not represent the party. There are enough voted to change the preamble however again it is usually pushed to the back of the line during convention to deal with things the membership feels is more important.

IE. Policy, Issue panels, Organization etc.

Inter party politics are hard to understand in the NDP because unlike the other parties they are more bottom up then top down.